Vessel Tools Quality

[Dawn]

I purchased a set of Hozan JIS screwdrivers for working on Japanese equipment. Nothing to write home about. They work, but weigh nothing and feel pretty cheap, but the tips are precision and they worked well. My Xcellite and other small hand tools I've used for electronics repair are nearing 40+ years for the most part and I've started to replace many of them. Plastic on much of the old stuff is outgassing, vinyl coatings long exposing bare metal, joints loose, and some tools have been resharpened or squared to the point of dysfunction. I guess I'm one of the rare souls that actually maintain tools that were once considered high quality.

I made a chance buy on Ebay of a few of the Vessel branded screwdrivers. These are impressively made. I wound up buying a complete set of the full tang drivers and an insert bit impact driver. That latter is quality like I've never seen packaged in an old fashioned steel box. I don't know if manufacturer makes and entire line or just the drivers are distributed in the states. I've read online that their hex keys and drivers with an odd shapped tip, unlike the ball type take the mystery out of metric hex tools having a tendency to slip in japanese hex fasteners at higher torques or easily bite the walls and remove fasteners where standard ones don't especially in Japanese autos and motorcycles.

After years of hearing about the JIS crosspoints, the cheaper Hozan's proved the point of easily gripping badly cammed out older crosspoints and the positive feel they have that's unlike the regular phillips or even the pozidrives with a lock and key sensation. There seems to be a similar difference in the slotted Vessel drivers. They seem to fit slots more positively on japanese equipment much better then fresh, high quality insert bits or regular slotted drivers. After reading about the hex tools, it makes me wonder if across the board, japanese specs might be slightly different and you really need the proper tools for the ideal fit.

Anyone with similar experience and to what degree Vessel is sold across the pond?
I'm not one to get excited over a screwdriver, but after all these years, it's like discovering something that's been under your nose the entire time. If Vessel only makes drivers, the price is actually comparable to most electronics grade drivers and cheaper then Snap-On or any of the premium mechanic's brands like MAC in the states.

[georges80]

Yes, JIS are DIFFERENT and this is well known on many Japanese vehicles that use crosspoint screws to hold various engine parts together. Getting a quality JIS specific set of screwdrivers is essential unless you like replacing/drillout/swearing/etc.

Vessel is a good brand, I own some to work on the land cruiser.

cheers,
george.

[Dawn]

Just curious. Do you find these tools seem to have a more positive fit across the board with all types of fastenters on your Vehicle? I don't do auto repair or work on anyting using large fasteners. From what primarly Japanese motorcycle ethusiasts seem to report, that's the case as if the fasteners are being made to slightly different standards then generic metric.

Besides the expected difference in crosspoints, the way these slots engage heads on Japanese equipment leads me to think there's a difference. Visually, these slots don't seem to have the slop in width that standard slots have even though the euro 3,2,6,&8mm widths are identical. There may be a difference that to me feels more positive.

Since nobody seems to be biting on this or the other thread on JIS, I'm wondering how much of an issue this is outside of the imports to the states and to what degree sales of JIS tools and what brands are available on the world market. Obviously, the Japanese automakers and associated heavy equipment has been in the world market since the 50's as well as exported electronics. I've been in this business over 40 years and until it was brought to my attention by a stereo technician, I never heard about it and neither had any of my collegues.

 Jensen didn't start selling a rebranded Hozan set until the 90's. Small tools for cameras though National Camera or Techra and other vendors never raised the issue of difference, again until Jensen introducted minitures under the brand Eurotool. Most camera repair tool catalogs offered high quality euro made tools intendend primarly for watchmaking in their place.

[nanofrog]

I've heard of Vessel, and great things about their tools.

But I've never bought any, as I don't seem to run into too many items that use JIS (I only know to ID them via a depressed dot on the head). Perhaps my Japanese made Honda uses them, but I've not damaged or stripped any screws using a Phillips head. 

I rarely ever see slotted screws in anything, and have some Wiha blades that I've never even used as a result (had them for a couple of years).

Only JIS drivers I've ever held were Moody. Seemed to be good drivers on the business end, but I didn't care for the aluminum handles FWIW (never tried the plastic ones they offer).

[saturation]

Interesting find:

http://www.vesseltools.com/vessel/vesselhistory.html

[georges80]

Just curious. Do you find these tools seem to have a more positive fit across the board with all types of fastenters on your Vehicle? I don't do auto repair or work on anyting using large fasteners. From what primarly Japanese motorcycle ethusiasts seem to report, that's the case as if the fasteners are being made to slightly different standards then generic metric.

Like I wrote, JIS is not the same as a Phillips. Google is an amazing tool to learn with

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives

cheers,
george.

[Dawn]

I wasn't specifically referring to the crosspoints George. The automotive and motorcycle crowd seem to think that the hex keys also fit uniquely better on Japanese vehicles then standard metric tools. Just wanted to know if you noticed the same.

These slots seem to fit the few slotted wood screws I occasionally run into restoring 60-70's vintage Japanese items that a 3,4, or 6mm metric slot doesn't engage as well.

I'm looking to hear acetodal evidence that japanese tools seem to have a slightly different standard not only in crosspoints, but for slots and hex fasteners. I've had too many both bondhus and regular metric hex keys slip out under torque especially on japanese gear. Either Vessel's unique shaped ball end or the key may be slightly different for japanese fasteners giving it a more positve fit.