Too good to be true (220V Hakko fx-888 replica)

[saturation]

Great, looking forward to it. 

You can compare against here too:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/hakko-fx-888-teardown-review/msg54772/#msg54772

and Dave's mod video:

A teardown is necessary to prove us wrong .
...

...Not everything in china is 100% dodgy but you have to know what to look out for and check quality.  When in doubt if its cheap buy one unit and check it over.

I guess tonight I will open up my Hakko and check the quality for sure!  I'll post up some photos.

[gjh]

Finally I've had some time to upload the photos.. Check them out..  To me looks very clean inside and my gutt feeling is too much details followed to be a fake.  Love the plastic screwdriver, I assume its to open the case but a bit weak     Says its made in Malaysia if that makes a difference.   The PCB where the fuse is held seems to be slightly different compared to Daves one,  but they still use the black marker to blackout the 125V labelling on the board..   See what Dave the man says...   Is it fake or not..  Purchased in Shenzhen China from one of the major electronics markets there.  I obscured the serial number and registration card serial, feels more like the right thing to do on the net.. Dunno if the chinese are looking

[saturation]

It looks genuine.  That little screw driver is to adjust the cal pot.  To date, All FX888 are made in Malaysia.

[gjh]

Cool thanks for your thoughts...  hmm haha! makes sense why the screw driver is weak... ahh I should read the manual first but typically who does that

[krivx]

There is an unboxing video of an FX-888 purchased from DX here if anyone could compare and comment? It seems that they are genuine irons, I think I'll order one in the coming weeks.

[saturation]

Its looks almost genuine, the only issue is the power switch is different from most photos, and I don't see the rubber cleaner, Hakko B3474, that's on the Hakko FH800 soldering iron holder.  It maybe inside the plastic wrap with the sponge. 

[Nermash]

I just got one today, and to the best of my observations it is a genuine Hakko. It even has 5.00 mm diameter cable on iron handle:)

[poorchava]

Maybe a lame question, but what is the availability of tips for this iron? I mean it's obvious that one can buy Hakko tips and they will fit for sure, but they also will be rather pricy. Is there some one-hung-lo soldering station type that uses tips that fit fx-888? I know that many of the chinese cheap generic soldering stations are actually clones of Hakko, Weller, Pace and te like. Are fx-888 tips comatible with famous/infamous/widely cloned 936 type station?

btw, how do i recognize 120V from 230V one? Or maybe it tolerates both inputs 120/230? (SMPS or some voltage switch). Replacing a plug for round, european type is not a problem. There's this station on amazon at $80 which is even cheaper than ebay ones, but it says 120V.

[saturation]

Tips?  Plenty.  If not from Hakko, there are 3rd parties and even counterfeit.  But Hakko has been known to support old models for decades, no worries there.  I'd be more careful about buying online: real Hakko tips sell for about $5 each, fake ~$1 each, so if you buy fake thinking its the real deal, you're not getting your money's worth.  The real Hakko tips will last longer and heat properly, with fake you never know.

The voltage rating is labeled on the station.  Its unfortunately, not switchable, so you have to buy the unit with the right voltage.

Maybe a lame question, but what is the availability of tips for this iron? I mean it's obvious that one can buy Hakko tips and they will fit for sure, but they also will be rather pricy. Is there some one-hung-lo soldering station type that uses tips that fit fx-888? I know that many of the chinese cheap generic soldering stations are actually clones of Hakko, Weller, Pace and te like. Are fx-888 tips comatible with famous/infamous/widely cloned 936 type station?

btw, how do i recognize 120V from 230V one? Or maybe it tolerates both inputs 120/230? (SMPS or some voltage switch). Replacing a plug for round, european type is not a problem. There's this station on amazon at $80 which is even cheaper than ebay ones, but it says 120V.

[poorchava]

You know, i've been thinking about purchasing an ebay one and replacing the plug. If i buy the amazon one i'll just buy 100W 230V->120V converter meant for powering american stuff from european powergrid.

I can buy a SMPS converter for about $20 or a proper toroidal 220/120 transformer for around $30. On the other hand there is only one authorized hakko reseller in Poland and they are more into cooperation with larger companies. They don't even answer to emails from private people, and getting it from reseller from other nearby EU countries (Germany, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Norway, Finland, Sweden etc.) would cost upwards of 130 euro + shiping (guesstimation: 20 euro) which translates to about PLN 630 and this is rather serious amount of money, at least for a 'serious hobby' equipment (hint: Rigol 1052 is about 2/3 of avarage net salary). We've generally got western-european prices for stuff while salaries are more like russia or something (no offense intended).

[SeanB]

I feel your pain, but at least you can get them easily enough if you go by train or car to the south. Here the same, but I have to either pay airfreight or wait 3 months for seafreight. No other way other than flying, and you will have a nasty look from the customs and the TSA ( hello mr finger) on the way back.

[poorchava]

I actually live in Wroclaw, which is south-western Poland. About 70km from Czech Republic border and ~130km from German border.

Funny thing: It happened to me several times that it was cheaper to gather 'orders' from friends/relatives, then actually drive to Germany, buy necessary stuff in eg. construction market and drive back. In on case price of the item in Germany + fuel cost was still HALF of what I would have to pay for the item in Poland. This is simply outrageous.

As for customs, in Poland they are a total mess. I've ordered about $400 worth of electronic and mechanic stuffs from east (Kazakhstan or Usbekistan IIRC) and no charge was put on them and package wasn't even opened. On the other hand once i got customs fee applied to the package which contained 20x 0805 smd leds for which i paid $0.40 on ebay . And once upon a time, when there was a really good proportion between our currency and US dollars my friend imported a new model of IBM Thinkpad laptop from us which was then held at customs for OVER 4 MONTHS! Here it's basically completly random whether your package gets import tax applied or not and how long it will be held.

It's also PITA to order samples from most companies, as they generally refuse shipping to eastern europe (Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Lativia, Estony etc) because the way they see it just because i'm a Pole I will most certainly resell received samples on auction website. It's virtually impossible to get anything from TI or Analog Devices and their more application specific ICs are very hard to come by in Poland (eg. try to buy OPA541)

[saturation]

Sorry to hear, poorchava, but I was in a similar situation when I started in the Pacific.  However, in many parts of Micronesia, Guam, Philippines etc., the 'low cost' gear came from Taiwan and Japan [ 1970s and 1980s] and we couldn't import T&M without big taxes, but we could get anything that was educational, without duties.  So, components were ok, finished good were not.  So for those times, we had to build everything we needed.

May I suggest you continue to go to Germany or neighboring countries rather than deal with your gov't tax laws.  Don't worry about Hakko or any name brand, I think you are in a situation where even a good clone would do, given the costs and the working environment you have to work with.

One thing I learned to do well was salvage trash electronics for parts, and still do it today.

I actually live in Wroclaw, which is south-western Poland. About 70km from Czech Republic border and ~130km from German border.

Funny thing: It happened to me several times that it was cheaper to gather 'orders' from friends/relatives, then actually drive to Germany, buy necessary stuff in eg. construction market and drive back. In on case price of the item in Germany + fuel cost was still HALF of what I would have to pay for the item in Poland. This is simply outrageous.

[Nermash]

After seeing some teardown photos of Dealextreme user "mangoboi", and comparing these to the unit I've got and then to Dave's unit, I must say that this is either a very very good and elaborate clone or a special Hakko version for chinese market... Main difference is the control section, on dx version it is pure analog, done with LM324. It also has one LM358 on board. There is no mcu in sight.

However, packaging, looks and feel of the unit, details outside and inside, suggest it might be genuine.

Here are the pictures mangoboi posted:
http://i50.tinypic.com/35ho2mg.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/2zxtdmd.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/14ccoix.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/n56cew.jpg

[amyk]

After seeing some teardown photos of Dealextreme user "mangoboi", and comparing these to the unit I've got and then to Dave's unit, I must say that this is either a very very good and elaborate clone or a special Hakko version for chinese market... Main difference is the control section, on dx version it is pure analog, done with LM324. It also has one LM358 on board. There is no mcu in sight.

However, packaging, looks and feel of the unit, details outside and inside, suggest it might be genuine.

Here are the pictures mangoboi posted:
http://i50.tinypic.com/35ho2mg.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/2zxtdmd.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/14ccoix.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/n56cew.jpg

My hypothesis is that it's made using the same parts as the genuine Hakko, with the exception of the control PCB. Housings, transformers, and PCBs can be easily produced, but the MCU, being a custom part, isn't so easily obtainable. It might even be one of the more expensive pieces. If you were the manager of a factory contracted by Hakko to build the FX-888 and wanted to ghost shift, I can imagine you wouldn't want to use that custom controller. The solution? Design a control PCB with the same form factor, but all analog so cheaper, and fit that to the ghost shift product. The same thing happened in the 936 days with the original's triac controller: none of the clones used it, instead opting for a circuit that could be built with just jellybean parts like the LM324. The large power resistor sitting on the side is not present in the version with the MCU, and the use of Chinese capacitors instead of the Rubycon in the original suggest this.

Still, if it works well I wouldn't worry. China is getting better. I'd rather get a 936 clone though, not a fan of the design.

[saturation]

The mangoboi review is no where in the Dealextreme sight, can you link?

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/hanko-fx-888-70w-soldering-station-ac-220v-126505?item=2

It doesn't make sense that Hakko would go to the trouble of making a new PCB for the Chinese market, when they are mass producing the existing one, so it strongly suggests counterfeit.

But, I'd have to see it to believe it, and there are no photos linked that detail the front and back of the questionable PCB, so I remain skeptical about these conclusions.  The fuse PCB looks very much like a regular Hakko Fx888, as posted in the USA site spare parts.

I think the Chinese engineers can make good consumer products, but selling counterfeit is bad for consumers because at most, the counterfeit item would be worth < 50% of the true FX 888 price, so you are paying too much.  Also, are the tips and iron genuine too?  It looks so on the pics.  Lastly, selling with intent to deceive is a criminal act itself.  Even the parts could be substandard and could die in short time, there is no way to insure quality, and if ir malfunctions and you try to get warranty repairs, you could be left high and dry.

Mangaboi should report his finding to Hakko JP or USA and have them investigate.

After seeing some teardown photos of Dealextreme user "mangoboi", and comparing these to the unit I've got and then to Dave's unit, I must say that this is either a very very good and elaborate clone or a special Hakko version for chinese market... Main difference is the control section, on dx version it is pure analog, done with LM324. It also has one LM358 on board. There is no mcu in sight.

[Nermash]

The mangoboi review is no where in the Dealextreme sight, can you link?

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/hanko-fx-888-70w-soldering-station-ac-220v-126505?item=2

There is discussions section on the bottom of that page, thread "Genuine HAKKO".

I bought the same unit, and mine is exactly the same as on mangoboi pictures. It has LM324 instead of Hakko branded mcu as seen in Dave's video. Also, there is a big power resistor on these units which does not exist  (at least not on pcb side facing transformer) in the genuine model.

As I said before, everything from packaging, accesories, suplied papers, looks and feel of the unit suggest it is real deal, but lack of mcu is a giveaway. As Amyk said it is probably "ghost shift" product.

Since it came with apparently legitimate warranty card from Hakko Hong Kong, I have already informed Hakko JP and Hakko HK about this issue.

[saturation]

Yes, the links so far have been down for 6 + hours.

http://club.dx.com/forums/forums.dx/forum.126505

Keep us posted with what Hakko says. 

The mangoboi review is no where in the Dealextreme sight, can you link?

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/hanko-fx-888-70w-soldering-station-ac-220v-126505?item=2

There is discussions section on the bottom of that page, thread "Genuine HAKKO".

I bought the same unit, and mine is exactly the same as on mangoboi pictures. It has LM324 instead of Hakko branded mcu as seen in Dave's video. Also, there is a big power resistor on these units which does not exist  (at least not on pcb side facing transformer) in the genuine model.

As I said before, everything from packaging, accesories, suplied papers, looks and feel of the unit suggest it is real deal, but lack of mcu is a giveaway. As Amyk said it is probably "ghost shift" product.

Since it came with apparently legitimate warranty card from Hakko Hong Kong, I have already informed Hakko JP and Hakko HK about this issue.

[richardBeach]

Quite interesting all of this! I just purchased a “Chinese” Hakko FX-888 off an Australian ebay seller a few weeks ago (think they still have them up). Everything looks genuine to me, and if it isn’t genuine it is such a good clone who cares, seems to work v.well!! :-)  I took it apart the other weekend and mine looks the same inside as the photos shown in post #36 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/too-good-to-be-true-(220v-hakko-fx-888-replica)/msg104435/#msg104435), which would appear to be quite different to the pictures of the dx purchased one. Mine has the custom micro and everything nicely cable tied in place, extra tubing over the power cable etc. Fuse board isn’t exactly the same as the one in post #36 and isn’t the same as the dx one or Dave’s Australian one, but very similar to the one shown in post #36. Also my switch matches Dave’s and the one from post #36, which seems different from the dx one.

So maybe there a couple of different sources of “Chinese” FX-888’s, some that are more genuine than others, anyway that is my quick two cents worth, maybe it will help someone.

[amyk]

Quite interesting all of this! I just purchased a “Chinese” Hakko FX-888 off an Australian ebay seller a few weeks ago (think they still have them up). Everything looks genuine to me, and if it isn’t genuine it is such a good clone who cares, seems to work v.well!! :-)  I took it apart the other weekend and mine looks the same inside as the photos shown in post #36 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/too-good-to-be-true-(220v-hakko-fx-888-replica)/msg104435/#msg104435), which would appear to be quite different to the pictures of the dx purchased one. Mine has the custom micro and everything nicely cable tied in place, extra tubing over the power cable etc. Fuse board isn’t exactly the same as the one in post #36 and isn’t the same as the dx one or Dave’s Australian one, but very similar to the one shown in post #36. Also my switch matches Dave’s and the one from post #36, which seems different from the dx one.

So maybe there a couple of different sources of “Chinese” FX-888’s, some that are more genuine than others, anyway that is my quick two cents worth, maybe it will help someone.

If it has the MCU I would certainly consider it genuine until some other evidence shows up that it isn't. (The Chinese cloners don't see much value in cloning that, when their analog controller can do virtually the same thing at a lower cost.) Manufacturers do make revisions so a different fuse board is not necessarily a reason for concern.

[Nermash]

Keep us posted with what Hakko says. 

[

Well, here is the epilogue:

* Hakko Japan initially got interested, asked for photos and purchase location. After I gave them this info, I have asked them to about the possibility to get the genuine control board for FX888 from them. They refused to sell (give, rent, etc) the board directly. THUMBS DOWN!

* Hakko Hong Kong took two emails to respond to my serial number inquiry. Apart from saying that serial number is not correct, nothing. Also could not get the genuine control board from them. THUMB SIDEWAYS...

* Dealextreme offered to issue full refund and even subsidize the shipping cost back to their UK site, in amount of 40 USD. As an alternative to sending the unit back, they offered store discount in amount of 20 USD. I was really suprised, in a positive way, how DX handled this. THUMBS UP!!!!

[saturation]

Thanks Nermash, the response of Hakko suggests they do think its counterfeit.  One thought:

I don't think Hakko is going to sell you an original board so you can insert it into a counterfeit product.  However, if you had told them you needed it for a genuine Hakko, they'd sell it.  You can find spare boards on the US Hakko site, but since you were inquiring whether what you bought was counterfeit, you'd have to make a parts purchase request either from another site or authorized distributor.  Note, that board alone is 43% of the purchase cost, given the cost of the whole 888, $100, the part is $43.

http://www.hakkousa.com/detail.asp?PID=4858&Page=1

You're better off returning it.  Whether to keep a clone depends if it works as well as the original or you think it can work for you given a real 888 can be 1.5-2x more costly than ~$100 in many parts of the world.

Keep us posted with what Hakko says. 

[

Well, here is the epilogue:

* Hakko Japan initially got interested, asked for photos and purchase location. After I gave them this info, I have asked them to about the possibility to get the genuine control board for FX888 from them. They refused to sell (give, rent, etc) the board directly. THUMBS DOWN!

* Hakko Hong Kong took two emails to respond to my serial number inquiry. Apart from saying that serial number is not correct, nothing. Also could not get the genuine control board from them. THUMB SIDEWAYS...

* Dealextreme offered to issue full refund and even subsidize the shipping cost back to their UK site, in amount of 40 USD. As an alternative to sending the unit back, they offered store discount in amount of 20 USD. I was really suprised, in a positive way, how DX handled this. THUMBS UP!!!!

[typeglob]

Got my fx888 replica from DX today. As far as knock-offs go, I think it is excellently made. It feels solid and well finished - like I imagine the genuine article would.

Internally (with the exception of quite a bit of flux residue on the board) it looks well made and neat; wires have heat shrink on the end to cover bare wire, the bolts holding down the transformer have split washers on them and the soldering looks good. However, I think they somehow heated the transformer too much, as the plastic 'platform' where the soldering points are has some heat damage (plastic started bubbling and has become a bit brittle).

Removing the Chinese power cord and replacing it with a European one was quick and easy. Did some soldering (lead free of course) and it seems to work well. I also got some nice reproduction tips (given the price of $9 for five 1.6mm chisel tips including shipping, I can't imagine they're the genuine thing).

DX sent it with a description of 'gadget' and a price of $7.39 with free shipping - local Dutch customs opened it and actually stamped 'vrijgesteld van heffingen' (exempt from taxes, because the value of the article + shipping is less than 20 euro). I can't imagine how someone could look in the package and believe that value, especially given it weighs almost 3 kg and a quick google search on the article name printed on the 'gadget' would've revealed quite a different price.

Anyway, I'm quite happy with it (a real one would've cost me at least 3-3.5x more). Yes, I'm keeping trade in fake articles alive but come on, making a genuine Hakko available in the US for $80 and trying to sell it in the rest of the world for 3-4x more doesn't seem like a particularly ethical way of doing business either.

Edit: just measured the resistance from the tip to the ground on the power plug - it's about 1.2 ohm. Shouldn't this be much, much higher like maybe 1M ohm? This doesn't seem particularly 'ESD safe' to me, so I might add  some resistance in there.

[gxti]

Edit: just measured the resistance from the tip to the ground on the power plug - it's about 1.2 ohm. Shouldn't this be much, much higher like maybe 1M ohm? This doesn't seem particularly 'ESD safe' to me, so I might add  some resistance in there.

My genuine Hakko 936 reads dead short as well. You're right that it would initially seem to be better if it were high-impedance, but it could also serve a safety-related purpose.

[typeglob]

Looks like less than 2 ohm resistance is how it should be. And now I think about it, that makes sense.