Pace ADS200 soldering station

[Shock]

I guess the issue with soldering large ground planes likely has to do with tip design?

For thermal loads it performs the same as OEM, and my findings agree quite well with what Dave showed in his review. The thermocouple doesn't measure any significant temperature drop when trying to solder a large ground plane (converse to the JBC), so you just have to use a higher temperature like Dave. I know some people didn't like that when the review came out, but it doesn't bother me. It was just interesting to see that with the live temperature readout and power meter.

This is not JBC hate for other readers, but as I've mentioned a few times (so it's a bit ad nauseum) that JBCs maximum power profile overshoots. That combined with the less tip plating (or life expectancy depending on how you look at it) and to a small degree their themocouple placement is going to make it appear to solder better in that test scenario. The JBC display in software (as mentioned by others and from my own observation) does not show the station settling to temp so this gives the user the "feeling" of high performance as well.

I'm no expert of thermal dynamics but if you are heating and creating a thermal bridge earlier because of those above factors it has a cumulative effect. That ground plane appeared not to be a challenge to either station in terms of power delivery. If the JBC is running 25C hotter at tip temp every time it heats up due to an aggressive profile it has an advantage. The Pace on the other hand appears to have a more conservative undershooting profile by design. Daves video highlighted those differences.

Does it mean anything, nope. They are both powerful and capable stations. JBC is more expensive in most places and just operates differently, perhaps a better test would be to turn it's profile down so that it doesn't overshoot. But of course it will perform worse, so why bother. Even if you put them on a level playing field the geometries aren't going to be perfect match.

I feel personally Pace has the better technology and iron, making fancy menus is easy compared to engineering accuracy and improving the handpiece design.

[nimish]

Take an M5Stack esp32 and bodge it in as an LCD + wifi + bt controller in place of the ancient MCU.
I think it looks pretty good as is frankly. You should sell it to PACE so they can jettison their shoddy excuse for a UI!

Have you used the UI or see the 1-4 firmware even? It works and looks perfectly fine. The stock ADS200 is not a gameboy, many manufacturers still sell analog stations without a display. Pace is selling to customers of their previous line of stations which aside from power, performance and the new iron is very similar in operation and appearance. Most customers don't care what MCU it has at the end of the day, these stations are designed for factory floor use and abuse.

Don't make up things I didn't want. A simple lcd and mcu combo is very cheap and can vastly increase the utility of, let's face it, a resistor with a PID loop attached.


For the $200 I dropped, I expect more, like data logging (a friend uses it for debugging pcb assembly issues) and proper programmability. I want automated temp profiling. I want to see more than one number at a time!

It's not 1989 anymore, chief. We can do better.




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[Shock]

Don't make up things I didn't want. A simple lcd and mcu combo is very cheap and can vastly increase the utility of, let's face it, a resistor with a PID loop attached.

For the $200 I dropped, I expect more, like data logging (a friend uses it for debugging pcb assembly issues) and proper programmability. I want automated temp profiling. I want to see more than one number at a time! It's not 1989 anymore, chief. We can do better.

1989 now that was a good time, I wish I could just go back... (touches ADS200) oh yeaah!

But seriously Pace didn't set out to redesign a radically new product. Check out the Pace WJS-100 and ST-50. The Pace ADS200 combines the functionality of those with an improved iron design, bit more speed, accuracy and no calibration when swapping between tips. They also lowered the price by a few hundred dollars.

I know it hurts you to not have every feature under the sun (I can sense the pain it's causing you) but really you are chasing a fairy-tale of your own invention. Likely will never be happy until you work on your own controller, perhaps offer to buy one off mbless or bribe him to add features you want.

[exe]

It's not 1989 anymore, chief. We can do better.

Even though I'm on the same boat with you, I'm afraid this was discussed previously in details. There is not much new to say. You'll say you want a better display, I'll say I want an encoder input, a bunch of people will say the station is perfect the way it is for the market they target... It seems there is enough demand for a "soldering brick". I think metcal users will say there is too much UI on this station .

Nonetheless, the controller is here, now we can build our own variant of the station.

PS still wonder how it performs against t12 clones.
PPS my perception of the station has changed slightly after I found out that Pace is very small company. What if it's sort of small family business? We picture big factories with huge R&D facilities, but what if they have three or four engineers working on the whole line of products? (speculating, I know).

[nimish]

Don't make up things I didn't want. A simple lcd and mcu combo is very cheap and can vastly increase the utility of, let's face it, a resistor with a PID loop attached.

For the $200 I dropped, I expect more, like data logging (a friend uses it for debugging pcb assembly issues) and proper programmability. I want automated temp profiling. I want to see more than one number at a time! It's not 1989 anymore, chief. We can do better.

1989 now that was a good time, I wish I could just go back... (touches ADS200) oh yeaah!

But seriously Pace didn't set out to redesign a radically new product. Check out the Pace WJS-100 and ST-50. The Pace ADS200 combines the functionality of those with an improved iron design, bit more speed, accuracy and no calibration when swapping between tips. They also lowered the price by a few hundred dollars.

I know it hurts you to not have every feature under the sun (I can sense the pain it's causing you) but really you are chasing a fairy-tale of your own invention. Likely will never be happy until you work on your own controller, perhaps offer to buy one off mbless or bribe him to add features you want.

Do you people not read posts? I did I fact offer to buy a kit from mbless!

It's causing me no pain, in fact just suggesting that pace should attempt to compete with jbc, Weller and oki/metcal with adding more than 3 7-segment displays causes people to come out of the woodwork afraid that adding basic features would reduce the purity of their soldering irons so it's not clear who's hurting!

The ts80 folks were able to slap a tiny screen in and an stm32. PACE can do the something similar. They chose not to and also charge the big bucks anyway.




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[Shock]

PS still wonder how it performs against t12 clones.

From what I've seen Pace has the faster heating which is about 3-4 seconds on the smallest tip from room temp to 350C. The Pace tips are also higher powered as designed for a 120W station (Pace 1130 and 1131 series) vs tips designed for a 75W station (T12 aka T15 series).

If you look at the extra mass on the Pace ultra performance tips this acts like a reservoir over the heater. On larger ground planes, larger tip geometries, high demand soldering power comes into play. Speed and mass both help with thermal recovery but power makes up the deficits. So how much power should a tip use? What ever it's rated for. You can over voltage the tip but it will lead to a shorter tip life and likely be harder to regulate.

[Shock]

Do you people not read posts? I did I fact offer to buy a kit from mbless!

Yeah I read that and his response, he is open to the idea on the V2 model. I was suggesting if you want to play around with his design or suggest new features perhaps make an offer on his V1 pcb and panel.

[labjr]

I finally sprung for the ADS200. It's looks and feels like tank compared to my old Weller and Hakko irons. Dave was right. It's a "brick dunny".

I was rather surprised how small the hand-piece is. Seems smaller than it appears in photos. About the size of a Sharpie. The cartridge tips are hardly bigger than a Cross pen refill. Definitely a different feel than the old irons. I would recommend the Ultra Performance tips for through-hole soldering and point-to-point wiring work since they're not that large. I only tried it briefly and I haven't done any soldering yet but will in the next few days.

[Cliff Matthews]

I finally sprung for the ADS200. It's looks and feels like tank compared to my old Weller and Hakko irons. Dave was right. It's a "brick dunny".

I was rather surprised how small the hand-piece is. Seems smaller than it appears in photos. About the size of a Sharpie. The cartridge tips are hardly bigger than a Cross pen refill. Definitely a different feel than the old irons. I would recommend the Ultra Performance tips for though-hole soldering and point-to-point wiring work since they're not that large. I only tried it briefly and I haven't done any soldering yet but will in the next few days.

Good you got it now. That leaves Santa some extra cash for MT-200 MiniTweez at Christmas! Beta testing's in a few days, so we'll have to get Aaron to send us some pics and pricing.. I'm curious to know if a firmware update will be required though.

[joeqsmith]

Back in March, I posted about buying the MT-100 MiniTweez for my hobby use.  They have been used almost daily.  The holder I made for them is working very well.  I like it much better than the original ones they come with as it's so much easier to insert them and it's nice having everything on one small holder.   
 
I had gone with wider tips than I would normally use as I wanted to try it with removing SOT23s and such.  I also bought some smaller tips like I would normally use but I have yet to install them.   

After four months, the biggest mistake I made was not buying them when I first tried them for work.  I can't think of a tool I bought in the last year that has saved me so much time.   Thanks PACE for making these great products!

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/newest-pace-ads200-production-station-(a-jbc-killer-at-$239)/msg2291157/#msg2291157

[helius]

After four months, the biggest mistake I made was not buying them when I first tried them for work.  I can't think of a tool I bought in the last year that has saved me so much time.

Have you used the older TT-65 tweezers? I found one at a hamfest for a really good price and am looking forward to using it.

[joeqsmith]

After four months, the biggest mistake I made was not buying them when I first tried them for work.  I can't think of a tool I bought in the last year that has saved me so much time.

Have you used the older TT-65 tweezers? I found one at a hamfest for a really good price and am looking forward to using it.

I was using these for many years up until now.  There are a few problems for me which is why I bought the new set.   First, it's like holding two P90 irons in one hand.  They are big, bulky and get hot in your hand.  They can throw out enough heat to to remove/solder about anything but I was using them more and more for smaller surface mount parts.   I bought some finer tips for them which helped some but every time I used the smaller ones at work, I was reminded just how bad they were for the work I am doing.    I also only have the one ST45 station, so I had to swap the cables.   Even for my hobby work, this was a bit of a pain.   

So, very reliable, lots of tips available, pull large ICs without a heat gun.   

The MT-100 with the ST50 heats up fast.  Seconds.   It's so fast to heat, I just turn it off as soon as I am done.   The TT-65, well, it takes as long as my P90.
With the MT-100, I can get into places I would have never attempted with the TT-65.   I have a lot more hand control with the MT-100 than I ever did with the TT-65.   

I'll keep the TT-65 in case I need to do some large part again. 
 
 

[EEVblog]

Are any of the SMD tweeters supported on the ADS200 base?
https://www.paceworldwide.com/products/handpieces/tweezers

[2N3055]

Are any of the SMD tweeters supported on the ADS200 base?
https://www.paceworldwide.com/products/handpieces/tweezers

Tweezers for the ADS200 base are supposed to be released any day now...
They should be very much alike MT-100

[Cliff Matthews]

Are any of the SMD tweeters supported on the ADS200 base?
https://www.paceworldwide.com/products/handpieces/tweezers

MT-200 MiniTweez is getting ready for beta test on Sept 1st. If all goes well and no major mods are needed, it will go into production in late Sept. Meaning availability in North America in October. As per your "hand up" reply, when Aaron talked about it earlier, he’ll be sending yours along with the MT-200 SetBack Tool Stand.

[2N3055]

Are beta testing spots still open? .. My ADS200 looks so sad alone ....

[labjr]

I'd also be interested in beta testing?

[PACE-Worldwide]

Are any of the SMD tweeters supported on the ADS200 base?
https://www.paceworldwide.com/products/handpieces/tweezers

Hi Dave,

Unfortunately, none of the older tweezer handpieces on that page are supported by the ADS200. However, the new MT-200 MiniTweez is being prepared for Beta Testing (sorry guys only 15 units are available and they've already been filled). They go out next week and, if all goes well, we'll go into production in October.

I will be sending you a sample MT-200 along with the MT-200 SetBack Tool Stand when we are sure the bugs are out of the beta models. I wouldn't enjoy watching a video of you tearing PACE a new a-hole because of some production issue that we didn't pick up!!

Take a look at the latest beta version in the attached image.

Aaron

[Shock]

Didn't see this earlier, there is a video up as well.

Edit:

Video seems to have been marked private.

[dkggpeters]

Expected pricing for MT-200 tweezers?

[joeqsmith]

Hi Dave,
I wouldn't enjoy watching a video of you tearing PACE a new a-hole because of some production issue that we didn't pick up!!

With as many problems at the 121GW seems to still have after two years, I don't think you have a lot to worry about.    

I like the idea of being able to lock the separation of the tips.    It seems like a nice feature.   

Are you going to offer a new handset with these same features for the older stations?

[dkggpeters]

Will we be able to pre-order the MT-200 tweezers when they go into production?

[Maconi]

Is it normal for the tips to come pre-tinned? I just bought an ADS200 and the Chisel tip that I bought with it looks like it's been used while the Conical Sharp tip looks completely clean. Just wondering if that's standard (this is my first nice solder station, sorry for the newb question). Gallery below:

https://imgur.com/a/PNkFXtz

I bought it from Tequipment so I assume they know what they're doing although the packaging for the tips were a bit poor (the tips were just thrown into the larger box that the ADS200 box was placed in, causing both tips to bang around and come out of their plastic housings in shipping).

[labjr]

Is it normal for the tips to come pre-tinned? I just bought an ADS200 and the Chisel tip that I bought with it looks like it's been used while the Conical Sharp tip looks completely clean. Just wondering if that's standard (this is my first nice solder station, sorry for the newb question). Gallery below:

https://imgur.com/a/PNkFXtz

I bought it from Tequipment so I assume they know what they're doing although the packaging for the tips were a bit poor (the tips were just thrown into the larger box that the ADS200 box was placed in, causing both tips to bang around and come out of their plastic housings in shipping).

I bought my station with several tips including the same large chisel tip. They appeared to be pre-tinned but very clean looking compared to your photos. I didn't particularly like my experience with Tequipment. Had to call back several times to have the discounts & shipping charges straightened out. They have a defensive attitude. 

[tooki]

Is it normal for the tips to come pre-tinned? I just bought an ADS200 and the Chisel tip that I bought with it looks like it's been used while the Conical Sharp tip looks completely clean. Just wondering if that's standard (this is my first nice solder station, sorry for the newb question). Gallery below:

https://imgur.com/a/PNkFXtz

I think Aaron mentioned that they're testing each tip, so I suspect it's factory fresh. But I'm sure he'll chime in.