Pace ADS200 soldering station

[2N3055]

I hope nobody will get insulted with this.

When  I was a kid in socialist country, I pretty much had to make all my tools. Lab PSU, AC millivoltmeter, signal tracer, continuity beeper (analog meter era) etc etc... I had store bought multimeter and soldering iron. I really understand "make it myself" attitude. When it makes sense.

I'm fed up with people asking for manufacturers to "make it open source"...
It is just crazy.

If you want to play LEGO with electronics either you design your own soldering controller (or spectrum analyser or whatever) and make it whatever you want..
Or if you don't know enough to design it yourself,  go out there and get one of already published open source or free designs and use them. There are dozens of them, in different stages of development

Profesional made equipment is exactly that: professional made by professionals. They spent years designing it, creating all kinds of intellectual properties that enables them to do their job. They don't make hobby kit products. They make real tools, for real work.

So no, not only they don't want to just give away to somebody that just wants to play with the stuff, they shouldn't do that.
They shouldn't degrade pro tools to DIY kits.
Most hobbyist are not qualified enough to even know proper soldering temperatures and procedures. Thinking that they will "improve" on professional product is hubris. Sorry.

If you don't like product as it is, get one that better suits you.
Or make your own. Which is best option, because you will learn a ton about the topic.
And if you put enough effort and time you might even make something as good as ones made by pros.
In which case you will learn why pro products cost real money...

Regards to all...

[tooki]

Send me your mailing address via EEVBlog Message and I'll have our UK office send you out the latest Rev 1-4 Firmware Chip & Chip Puller.

Speaking of the UK office, did they ever get in touch with Sibalco, your Swiss reseller? They still haven't added the ADS200 to the website. (At least Farnell has resumed consumer sales to Switzerland...)

[tooki]

Thinking that they will "improve" on professional product is hubris.

Yes yes yes!!!

Like... 99% of the time, your crappy DIY mod isn't going to improve things.

[PACE-Worldwide]

Send me your mailing address via EEVBlog Message and I'll have our UK office send you out the latest Rev 1-4 Firmware Chip & Chip Puller.

Speaking of the UK office, did they ever get in touch with Sibalco, your Swiss reseller? They still haven't added the ADS200 to the website. (At least Farnell has resumed consumer sales to Switzerland...)

Thanks Tooki,

I'll report this to our UK office, which is responsible for covering Switzerland.

Aaron

[tooki]

I know, you said in an earlier reply that you'd tell them. I'm wondering if they ever followed up...

[PACE-Worldwide]

I know, you said in an earlier reply that you'd tell them. I'm wondering if they ever followed up...

Tooki,

I sent your comments, but it's up to Sibalco to actually deliver. They are a small distributor for PACE, so I suspect we don't garner a whole lot of clout with them.

Aaron

[EEVblog]

Not to mention what happens when someone’s crappy DIY firmware causes it to lock up with the output triac on and overheats the iron, frying the tip or worse. (Even if you put a disclaimer in the warranty terms, how do you prove a complainant didn’t just replace the stock firmware after frying something, leaving pace on the hook for warranty fulfillment?)

Yep, could potentially be dangerous.

[labjr]

Not to mention what happens when someone’s crappy DIY firmware causes it to lock up with the output triac on and overheats the iron, frying the tip or worse. (Even if you put a disclaimer in the warranty terms, how do you prove a complainant didn’t just replace the stock firmware after frying something, leaving pace on the hook for warranty fulfillment?)

Yep, could potentially be dangerous.

Nothing new here. Anyone who alters any product would void the warranty. And would likely will be hobbyists who know the risks. If someone bricked a unit by programming I would think they'd be smart enough to use a fresh PLCC and program it themselves. Not rocket science. But I can understand why Pace doesn't want to deal with that.

[Shock]

Labjr, the Unisolder probably runs the ADS200s TD-200 iron (it runs the TD-100, TD-100a) and it supports unbuffered DC and series k type thermocouple as far as I'm aware, so you may just need add a profile. Unsure about power delivery though and if you can easily drive the Pace k type tweezers.

However my opinion in actually building a Unisolder, it's an overkill. You have to bring your own iron, stand, case, transformer and days worth of - parts ordering, assembly of two PCBs, troubleshooting, editing code, flashing, then finally station assembly. By that time you're up many hundreds in effort and time, if even you can complete the task.

The value in the ADS200 is not only in the iron design, but the stand, station, enclosure and a very effective circuit. Unless someones owned or used a Pace station before, they have no terms of reference how substantial it is build wise. It could split other stations open easily, like a Piñata.

I understand you have been looking for a couple of years, you know the Pace has the power and the best consumables price for genuine tips that don't skimp on mass or plating so they appear to heat up fast. But even if you want a faster performing tip the ADS200 has you covered with standard tips, and no calibration fiddling, plus the tweezers any day now!

I know you want a custom display, but I still can't understand why you haven't just brought one already and started working on a your own micro and drop in replacement PCB. Either way even if you wait for someone else to design a drop in (which I expect will happen eventually) it's far easier when already owning the station.

I think you are splitting peas, go spend the 2 bucks 30 and get the instant setback version with a tip and start working on it, get a thread going and collaborate.

[EEVblog]

Not to mention what happens when someone’s crappy DIY firmware causes it to lock up with the output triac on and overheats the iron, frying the tip or worse. (Even if you put a disclaimer in the warranty terms, how do you prove a complainant didn’t just replace the stock firmware after frying something, leaving pace on the hook for warranty fulfillment?)

Yep, could potentially be dangerous.

Nothing new here. Anyone who alters any product would void the warranty. And would likely will be hobbyists who know the risks. If someone bricked a unit by programming I would think they'd be smart enough to use a fresh PLCC and program it themselves. Not rocket science. But I can understand why Pace doesn't want to deal with that.

Sure, Pace can't be (successfully) sued for it, but it's just too much trouble.
They could release the HEX file though for user firmware updates instead of sending out chips.
I'm rather surprised a modern design like this uses an old school OTP part.

[EEVblog]

The value in the ADS200 is not only in the iron design, but the stand, station, enclosure and a very effective circuit. Unless someones owned or used a Pace station before, they have no terms of reference how substantial it is build wise. It could split other stations open easily, like a Piñata.

I'm really liking the ADS200 and it's mostly my daily driver now.
Looking forward to the firmware update.

[exe]

I'm really liking the ADS200 and it's mostly my daily driver now.

Why not jbc?

[tooki]

Nothing new here. Anyone who alters any product would void the warranty. And would likely will be hobbyists who know the risks. If someone bricked a unit by programming I would think they'd be smart enough to use a fresh PLCC and program it themselves. Not rocket science. But I can understand why Pace doesn't want to deal with that.

Except that no, they might not understand the risks at all.

And unlike, say, a Linksys router where botched custom firmware would, at absolute horrible worst, either brick the thing or have the FCC coming around your house to find why you’re broadcasting on a channel that’s not allowed in USA, a soldering station firmware failure could potentially burn down your house.

[exe]

Yet there are many Chinese stations with questionable firmware quality (ksger, etc). I'm also not sure "reputable" stations are audited for bugs by independent authorities, otherwise there would be a certificate or something. Without a cert with a protocol how it was tested we don't know if even official firmware is safe or not.

A good safety design should not rely on software for safety. There should be additional protection like fuses, sensors, etc.

Another thing is, with my equipment I prefer to decide myself what I can and what I cannot do. For a manufacturer any tear down or unauthorized fix is a safety concern. Shall we forbid repairing equipment?

So, my point is, all that usual safety talks are just that -- talks. We had same discussion about, e.g., writing custom firmware for a dmm, etc. It's always possible to make up a catastrophic scenario, and there is a term for it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FUD .

[exe]

a soldering station firmware failure could potentially burn down your house.

Look, a branded soldering station tried to burn Dave's house! . Hope Weller releases a software update soon to fix the danger...

[labjr]

And unlike, say, a Linksys router where botched custom firmware would, at absolute horrible worst, either brick the thing or have the FCC coming around your house to find why you’re broadcasting on a channel that’s not allowed in USA, a soldering station firmware failure could potentially burn down your house.

Then Cliff should be publicly shamed for modding his unit. And I'm expecting this forum to be shut down for allowing the discussion.

[tooki]

Yet there are many Chinese stations with questionable firmware quality (ksger, etc). I'm also not sure "reputable" stations are audited for bugs by independent authorities, otherwise there would be a certificate or something. Without a cert with a protocol how it was tested we don't know if even official firmware is safe or not.

A good safety design should not rely on software for safety. There should be additional protection like fuses, sensors, etc.

Another thing is, with my equipment I prefer to decide myself what I can and what I cannot do. For a manufacturer any tear down or unauthorized fix is a safety concern. Shall we forbid repairing equipment?

So, my point is, all that usual safety talks are just that -- talks. We had same discussion about, e.g., writing custom firmware for a dmm, etc. It's always possible to make up a catastrophic scenario, and there is a term for it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FUD .

Whoosh... the sound of the point going right over your head.

The issue is that if a catastrophic outcome happens, and it’s shown that the manufacturer caused or encouraged the modification that led to the fault, they could be exposing themselves to massive legal liability.

And no, safety discussions aren’t just “talk”. As they say, safety rules are written in blood. Most catastrophes are the result of the perfect alignment of little issues, each of which is insignificant on its own. But had any one of them been prevented, the catastrophe would have been averted. And that’s why safety engineering often appears pedantic and stupid, but it’s not.

[exe]

And no, safety discussions aren’t just “talk”. As they say, safety rules are written in blood.

FUD again... You guys approaching problem from the very wrong side. Just install a fire alarm in the lab. It should be there anyway. It is that simple and get you all equipment covered. No amount of engineering on a soldering iron can replace it.

Also a switch to shutdown all equipment at once when it's not in use.

[Cliff Matthews]

And unlike, say, a Linksys router where botched custom firmware would, at absolute horrible worst, either brick the thing or have the FCC coming around your house to find why you’re broadcasting on a channel that’s not allowed in USA, a soldering station firmware failure could potentially burn down your house.

Then Cliff should be publicly shamed for modding his unit. And I'm expecting this forum to be shut down for allowing the discussion.

Which? The bigger heat sink? or extra secondary winding? I tried to stop myself   But it is fused..

[2N3055]

When I was a kid, I made several guitar and bass amplifiers for myself and my friends. I made one as a trade for a Ibanez Chorus pedal.
I did everything, "from the scratch" except components and speaker units. I had metal panels cut by somebody else, I didn't have way of cutting it.
The wooden box, veneer, PCBs, everything. Schematics were painstakingly made by designing some parts by myself, and partially by reverse engineering several Peavey, Acoustic, Ampeg and other amplifiers.
No Internet then.

I didn't whine how life is unfair because Peavey didn't make a version of amplifier with full schematics and operating principles and with detailed know how how to tweak preamp or equalizers for you to be able to change two capacitors  and than have bragging rights that you "improved" great amplifier...
I did make dozens of modifications on people's amps when they wanted something tweaked. But I did it myself. And I had a reputation of being goto guy for that kind of work.
But that was all my effort.

Nowdays, people want for manufacturers to spend 30 engineer/years to develop a product, and then to "open it" (mean give all connected "know-how" for free) so few users that didn't buy soldering iron to actually use it, but to play with the iron itself, can brag on the youtube something like : "SHOCKING: New release of jailbreaked firmware "Blue fire 2" for PACE ADS200 improves soldering time of pennies for more than 2% ... (DISCLAIMER: "Blue fire 2" firmware damages soldering tips after 2 hours, but speed increase was totally worth it....) And then 10 minute video of a guy soldering pennies together..

I bought ADS200 EXACTLY because it is no nonsense, honest to God, just excellent soldering iron. You can set temperature, you can solder with it. It has fantastic choice of tips, it is very powerful, yet very compact. You want touch screen, buy JBC.
People that don't use soldering stations as a tool, but actually want to tinker with station itself are not target market of pro companies. Sorry, it's just so.

Don't like that? Reverse engineer board. It is very simple actually. Reverse engineer it, make whatever you think is cool, and make it open source.
Make it so it can be installed in original controller as an aftermarket change. Or make whole different front panel (can be PCB style) that can be installed in a box.
And put that in open source. Whoever does that has my respect. Huge respect.

But you do that on your own time, with your resources and knowledge, with your own responsibility.

Asking somebody else to do that for you is kinda lame...

[tooki]

And no, safety discussions aren’t just “talk”. As they say, safety rules are written in blood.

FUD again... You guys approaching problem from the very wrong side. Just install a fire alarm in the lab. It should be there anyway. It is that simple and get you all equipment covered. No amount of engineering on a soldering iron can replace it.

That is just about the stupidest thing I have ever read.

It’s not “FUD” to want things to not catch fire in the first place, you half-wit.

Also a switch to shutdown all equipment at once when it's not in use.

This is the only thing you’ve said so far which makes any sense. But it doesn’t abrogate the need for things to be designed for safety, and for fail-safe design.

Plus, as I said, you have still completely missed the real point that I was making, namely of legal liability in the case of unsafe failure.

[Shock]

Noone is saying don't DIY, they are saying DIY by design has risks (especially with heating tools) as the testing and safety falls into the hands of the user.

[EEVblog]

I'm really liking the ADS200 and it's mostly my daily driver now.

Why not jbc?

The JBC is in the other office cubicle at present. Gear gets moved around in the lab constantly and I usually just use the one that's closest at the time.
Don't get me wrong, the JBC is the better performing iron, and you'd expect that based on price and specs. But most of the time I don't need the JBC performance, so the Pace is more than suitable for most work I do. And I'm really liking the feel of it and the shorter tip-grip length. And I have a ton more tips for the Pace. It's better than the Hakko.

[gasmeter]

Thank you very much Aaron

I had the chip arrive in the post very quickly.

I appreciate your prompt support .
It restores my confidence in Pace

Peter

[IO390]

We use the ST50/TD100 irons all day every day for repair work. The current set of tips we've been using were ordered over a year ago and are used for about 1-2 hrs total each day, and they are still fine.

I've just ordered two new ADS200 irons because they cost about the same as a second hand ST50/TD100, so I'm looking forward to trying out the new kit. It does seem that Pace discontinue stuff pretty quickly though.

Edit: Reading the last page of this thread indicates that this station is/was sold by Farnell. I've bought most of my Pace gear in the past from Farnell however they only list the ADS200 tips with no mention of the soldering station. Have Farnell stopped selling Pace gear?

I ordered mine from exmel.co.uk who have been extremely helpful and quick to deal with.