Pace ADS200 soldering station

[hrbngr]

Aaron,

Is 1.4 now the current firmware?

Also, I have not seen any discussions on this recently, but how has the tip/holder redesign worked out?  I remember that some early adopters were having trouble w/the gasket in the handle coming out of position and causing the tips to not fit properly--was this completely resolved?

thanks.

[mbless]

I'm surprised someone has not yet made a fancy drop-in control board for the ADS200?

I made my own that uses a buck converter + LDO instead of the linear regulator with heatsink. I also switched to a TFT screen so I had to make a new front panel. It's been taking forever to finish the firmware since I don't have a lot of free time for it.

[nimish]

It is simple 24V transformer, albeit of good quality.

Awesome. I think I can cram a https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Triad-Magnetics/VPT24-4170?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvwUzoUXIIvyTw34uqMHR%252buIg1%2f%2fV2UEN4%3d

and then drill some holes for the DPDT slide switch.

Be aware that putting that 4.1 amp toroidal transformer into the case,  may cause an increase of ~2 volts AC and present up to 40 volts DC at the regulator (max allowable) and likely require a larger heat sink.. To avoid cooking the regulator with your new transformer (and maybe the whole PCB), drop the input to the regulator by 5 to 10 volts. You could do it easy with a series string of 1N400x diodes or a 7805 and a 10 ohm 2-watt resistor in current limiter configuration.

The default Pace transformer presents 33v to the regulator (at 120vac line) and almost 35v (at max 126vac line). Too close for comfort.. There's plenty of room for a larger heat sink (see attached pic)

Well yeah that's the peak equivalent of 24V_RMS. For a given transformer the ratio is fixed so unless I suddenly get a 135V/270V mains (bigger problems!) it'll always be under 40V. On top of that that's just the peak voltage so it's only going to need to dissipate that for a small section of the cycle. I guess I could whack in a diode, but why bother?

[nimish]

I'm surprised someone has not yet made a fancy drop-in control board for the ADS200?

I made my own that uses a buck converter + LDO instead of the linear regulator with heatsink. I also switched to a TFT screen so I had to make a new front panel. It's been taking forever to finish the firmware since I don't have a lot of free time for it.

This is super cool. Would you mind sharing more? I think pace could really use an engineer that understands UI design. I really don't understand why this sucker costs $250. Grab a decent switcher that outputs 24V, a couple of power FETs to handle switching and a $1 micro to handle the control of the LCD + power. I guess the R&D behind the handpiece and tips is a worth a good amount but the ts-100 shows that you can make entire tip-heater cartridge system for < $100. At the end of the day it's "just" a temperature controlled heating element. I'm sure Pace has 60+ years of experience for a reason, but it's fun to speculate.

[tooki]

There are a lot more things that go into the cost of a product than the parts, or even R&D. Logistics, design validation, certification, overhead, marketing, warranty fulfillment, and doubtless many more I’m not even thinking of.

[labjr]

The ADS200 station seems like a bargain. The comparison to TS100 is not apples to apples. That thing is sold on ebay and Alibaba. It runs on batteries or an AC adapter which has to be purchased separately. It's probably not certified for commercial use. It's made in China. Probably wouldn't stand up to use for production line. Got a neat OLED display though!

Pace is made in USA. They have great support. So the UI is a bit old fashioned. It gets the job done. And leaves hobbyists with motivation to devise some good after-market mods.

Any out there think they can make it cheaper and actually do it for a livelihood?

[Bud]

 It is a very good price for the technology used. I am very happy with the purchase and price.

[Shock]

Is 1.4 now the current firmware?
Also, I have not seen any discussions on this recently, but how has the tip/holder redesign worked out?  I remember that some early adopters were having trouble w/the gasket in the handle coming out of position and causing the tips to not fit properly--was this completely resolved?

In the 1.4 firmware it includes a smoother single digit temp control and display, the heating profile was also improved on. I'm running this and works well for me, Pace did a good job.

Tip and iron problem was solved almost straight away. Unless you were in the very first batch it won't affect you.

[nimish]

There are a lot more things that go into the cost of a product than the parts, or even R&D. Logistics, design validation, certification, overhead, marketing, warranty fulfillment, and doubtless many more I’m not even thinking of.

It's a basic soldering station. Pace has over half a century of experience. If they aren't making a huge net margin something is wrong. It's not rocket science.

I am happy to pay for it, I like paying for American engineering that will outlive me. But for $250 I expect things like "switchable voltage" or "firmware upgrades that don't need a chip mailed to me" or "Tft screen".

None of those would take a huge amount of extra engineering, since the Chinese have apparently been able to figure that out at a fraction of the cost.

Would be a fun project.






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[Bud]

Yes,yes, please go ahead and do it and share with us how it goes, and do not forget about plating the tips your fun project will be worthless without.

[labjr]

Obviously the margin has been cut the be more competitive with Hakko etc. So they reused the basic design of the old stations. Though, not sure why they didn't use a dual voltage transformer? Maybe has to do with protecting foreign markets? But then again Euro price sheet shows nearly identical prices. I bet Hakko does it for that reason.

[nimish]

Yes,yes, please go ahead and do it and share with us how it goes, and do not forget about plating the tips your fun project will be worthless without.

  

Man you need to be less of a dick. In fact, Unisolder shows that it can be done by hobbyists.

Leverage the difficult-for-hobbyists hardware (tip fabrication, hand piece) part built by others, and exploit cheap manufacturing of PCBs + shift burden to software which is quick to iterate.

There's a reason most American manufacturers died off, they couldn't decouple their slow-moving processes from processes that needed to move faster. I hope Pace can keep up and isn't kept alive by "buy American" diehards like me.

[nimish]

Obviously the margin has been cut the be more competitive with Hakko etc. So they reused the basic design of the old stations. Though, not sure why they didn't use a dual voltage transformer? Maybe has to do with protecting foreign markets? But then again Euro price sheet shows nearly identical prices. I bet Hakko does it for that reason.

Yes it's kind of baffling. They would need to stock 2 different SKUs (and they are smart enough to turn their 3 buttons into 1 assembly??) and deal with all of those supply chain problems with sourcing 2 different transformers from their supplier.

My guess is that they don't sell a lot of the 220V version for it to be worth spending the extra cost on the 110V version to have the extra winding. Of course, it's a chicken-and-egg thing: if they built a global version perhaps they could sell more globally...

I generally wonder why they bother with linear transformers when 90-120W 19V SMPS supplies are ultra cheap due to the scale of laptop manufacturing. Noise?

[labjr]

They probably use linear supplies because using switching supplies would require an entire redesign and certification etc. They've been using linear supplies forever. Why change? I still say the single voltage transformer is for market protection. Most of the larger manufacturers of soldering stations do the same. Maybe distributors won't commit to taking the line if there's a possibility of competition with gray market goods.

The ISB jack is on the back of Non-ISB stations. Why didn't they leave that off if they're trying to save cost?

[helius]

I'm so excited this thread is back to bikeshedding.

[2N3055]

Obviously the margin has been cut the be more competitive with Hakko etc. So they reused the basic design of the old stations. Though, not sure why they didn't use a dual voltage transformer? Maybe has to do with protecting foreign markets? But then again Euro price sheet shows nearly identical prices. I bet Hakko does it for that reason.

Yes it's kind of baffling. They would need to stock 2 different SKUs (and they are smart enough to turn their 3 buttons into 1 assembly??) and deal with all of those supply chain problems with sourcing 2 different transformers from their supplier.

My guess is that they don't sell a lot of the 220V version for it to be worth spending the extra cost on the 110V version to have the extra winding. Of course, it's a chicken-and-egg thing: if they built a global version perhaps they could sell more globally...

I generally wonder why they bother with linear transformers when 90-120W 19V SMPS supplies are ultra cheap due to the scale of laptop manufacturing. Noise?

On Dave's teardown it can be clearly seen that 230(240)V version has two primary windings in series. It doesn't have 120/240V switch but trafo is universal, at least that one was...

[2N3055]

Yes,yes, please go ahead and do it and share with us how it goes, and do not forget about plating the tips your fun project will be worthless without.

  

Man you need to be less of a dick. In fact, Unisolder shows that it can be done by hobbyists.

Leverage the difficult-for-hobbyists hardware (tip fabrication, hand piece) part built by others, and exploit cheap manufacturing of PCBs + shift burden to software which is quick to iterate.

There's a reason most American manufacturers died off, they couldn't decouple their slow-moving processes from processes that needed to move faster. I hope Pace can keep up and isn't kept alive by "buy American" diehards like me.

Sorry to disappoint you but , from engineering standpoint, Unisolder is horrible engineering. It is horribly overspecified on BOM, left in beta stage of development, and is exactly what you call it: something being done by hobbyist, who will do it for fun doing it, and not because it will provide excellent service and be economical. And you can tweak it and experiment with it and have fun.

There is nothing wrong with that, don't get me wrong, but if you buy soldering station as a tool, ADS200 is highly professional tool for a fantastic price.

I solder for 40 years, and I can tell you that I never said " oh my, I wouldn't care if my soldering iron  has enough power to melt this connector, if only I had wanky 8" touch screen that will show animations and fancy graphs..." I couldn't care less. If soldering iron had good regulation, had good tips and had enough power for the job, you would pretty much never look at the screen.
Frankly, to me it is refreshing that Pace keeps making top quality "old school" equipment, instead of new trend that behaves like pro tools should be like digital toys for gaming... More design that substance..

I'm waiting for a new thermal tweezers for ADS200 to be released, and will then buy ADS200 + tweezers. I think nothing else on market has so good price/performance.

[labjr]

On Dave's teardown it can be clearly seen that 230(240)V version has two primary windings in series. It doesn't have 120/240V switch but trafo is universal, at least that one was...

Interesting. I watched the video again. It would appear that there are two primary windings. However, Dave didn't mention that. And while he has it apart, he says "It's not switchable. You have to get the correct transformer for your region."

Has anyone confirmed that there are are actually two primaries?

[labjr]

BTW, I'm wondering which tips everyone is using? Does, say an Ultra series 3/32 chisel tip have a large performance difference over a 3/32 Standard series chisel tip? Any reason not to use Ultra over the Standard or vice versa.

[hrbngr]

Like labjr, I am also interested in any feedback on the tips, especially in regards to the Standard vs Ultra-Performance version of the same tips--basically, are they worth the upgrade?  Also, is TEquipment is actually stocking most of the tips now? --as they don't seem to show parts with live/current inventory and I don't want to buy the station then have to wait for a bunch of tips to come back in stock.

[Magiciaen]

If the 240V version really does have a transformer with two primary windings and all I need to do is add a voltage selector switch, that would change my decision about buying this station.

[exe]

I wonder why not having select from the factory.

Anyway, it's interesting to see good old mains transformers. I thought everyone migrated to smps due to cost and weight. Esp. because there are ready commercial modules of all flavors. A good smsps has universal 90-260V input . Probably, the argument here will be the same as why it doesn't have a better screen, rotary encoder and flashable firmware.

Concerning tip technology, I wonder how Pace compares to Chinese t12 clones.

[labjr]

I understand the theory behind the Ultra series tips. Provides a flywheel effect. But would like to know if the extra mass of the Ultra series tips has a noticeable effect on performance in real world application. I'd think a 120w station would be able to keep up while using regular tips. The cost difference is negligible. I'd just rather not have a larger mass obstructing my view any more than necessary. Especially while soldering small stuff.

[Cliff Matthews]

I like high performance tips but can't comment much on noticeable thermal effects of smaller tips (like 1130-0013 foreground) since much of my work is heavy duty (100w iron shown for comparison).
On the big 1131-0055 tip there's a problem.. I'm now on my 2nd unit after >30,000 components desoldered and it's likely because the stand can catch on the tip during removal. The aluminum casting on the stand needed some beveling to stop big hot tips from pulling out and dropping off my bench 
Most owners should be aware that 5-minutes of filing will stop some frustration and maybe even some burn accidents.

[ThunderSqueak]

Where is the firmware history for the ADS-200?
This fellow upgrades from 1.2 to 1.3 to stop temperature display readings from wandering around.
It's a socketed PLCC MCU swap.

hmm, my video, they sent that firmware pretty fast after my first video and comment on the bouncing display.  I was just searching around the web to see if there was a firmware change-log and to see if they had a new firmware revision.  There has been no issues that I have seen so far with the 1.3 I installed in that video, but I was curious what changes if any they made between that and the 1.4 firmware.  I guess I will just need to contact pace again to get the info.