Pace ADS200 soldering station

[Simon]

They seem to have used a lot of.... parts. why an active rectifier? just PWM the element and measure the temperature the ADC in most micro-controllers would surely suffice? and a bit of consideration to board layout. Were there vent holes in the back at the top? one set of holes will not be the most effective.

[Shock]

They seem to have used a lot of.... parts. why an active rectifier? just PWM the element and measure the temperature the ADC in most micro-controllers would surely suffice? and a bit of consideration to board layout. Were there vent holes in the back at the top? one set of holes will not be the most effective.

Yes it has vent slots at the rear as well.

[Cliff Matthews]

Comparing ADS-200 with JBC is absolutely fair! In EU JBC is around 380-400 Euro. ADS-200 is 355Euro. I have no idea where this 199$/200e figure comes out but I cannot see those offers anywhere.

It's supposed to be 225 euro list price for the 230V standard model. Dealers are possibly just listing it for whatever price they want to at the moment. Noone was even comparing it to a JBC anyway just the temp spec is similar. Dave took that from the title of Cliffs thread. Cliff could have wrote Apple iWatch killer for all the difference it makes.

So is there a consensus to change the title then? (Google's URL linking won't change, and Pace has been very good to tend this thread and explain the product was never intended to unseat products at double the price).

[labjr]

I can't help but wonder if the thermal performance could be improved with a better designed control circuit?

[Shock]

So is there a consensus to change the title then? (Google's URL linking won't change, and Pace has been very good to tend this thread and explain the product was never intended to unseat products at double the price).

I'm not telling you to, but it does draw a lot of attention from JBC users though .

I wasn't interested in a JBC at all when I was considering the Pace. It's not because it was JBC. I don't like fancy hard to replace blue displays, stand being anchored to the side of the station, price and tip cost. I also prefer if gear has jelly bean parts least I need to repair it easily out of warranty.

That's not hating on JBC, it's just not what I wanted. I also wanted a dual iron station so I made a compromise and got two ADS200s.

[tooki]

Hello!

Good video by Dave as usual but I would like to point few things, after waiting for this product to come out for some time now...

1) Comparing ADS-200 with JBC is absolutely fair! In EU JBC is around 380-400 Euro. ADS-200 is 355Euro. I have no idea where this 199$/200e figure comes out but I cannot see those offers anywhere.

He wasn’t comparing EU list prices...

2.5) JBC tips are affordable. They are already between  20-30 euro, however there are constant offers from suppliers, as well as different shops on ebay in EU that offer them for under 20Euro.

You think even €20 on sale is “affordable”, when Pace and Ersa do it for €10?

3) The PCB design in ADS200 looks quite bad. Using outdated micro-controllers and external ADC is amateurish from a company designing mass produced product that is very cost sensitive. To me this is pure incompetence. "No calibration" feature is just a marketing BS. I am sorry for being harsh, but hardware "particularities" are obvious in software as well, with temperatures jumping up and down all the time... To me, there is no excuse for this. Soldering station is a simple product, and today there are countless fast and cheap u-Controllers on the market that could eat anything you throw at it. JBCs are using dsPICs and they have usb interface, and you can get stm32s for pennies today...

What concrete advantages does using a “modern” MCU confer?

The temp jumping is obviously software, so presumably they can fix this in a future firmware version.

3.1) 7segment displays with two buttons, i feel this type of user interface was outdated in the 1980s.

Retro, yes. But is it actually worse? I hate the LCD on my Ersa (not backlit, so hard to read under a shelf), and the dot matrix LCD on the JBC looks terrible.

Tons of people would be happier to just have a damned knob and a simple temp display. (Look at how many people wish Hakko had not replaced the FX-888 with the FX-888D, which has an awful user interface.)

And of course there’s also simple product differentiation. Pace does make some models that use LCDs, but they’re higher-end.

4) Handles... I like the handle design but "improving" or claiming indestructibility, or implying that competition's product is feeble and just falls apart is nonsense. JBC handles are very strong and thin. They also offer different gripsrt. you can attach and I find them quite comfortable.

Nobody claimed competing handles were falling apart.

Someone mentioned using wide-range SMPS in soldering stations. I believe companies that produce soldering stations are not up to such challenge. While it is possible, and they could blow any current product out of the field in terms of speed of response, and temperature stability and controllability, they would have to deal with very complicated EMC and safety standards, and most likely they would not do it well.
Furthermore, they would have to change their temperature control method (it would become very complicated), because SMPS do not like high AC loads. Output caps would suffer and limit the lifetime of device drastically. It is far from impossible, but many fail at simple 50Hz-Triac method that current controlled SMPS would be like asking for a space-x rocket from a corner store bakery.
50Hz trafo is a very reasonable approach, simple because it is robust, safe and cheap.

I asked about using universal input SMPSs. I don’t think we are on the same page, though.

SMPS design is not exactly an obscure art these days, but moreover they could do like everyone else and just have a PSU manufacturer custom build a PSU board. (Like how if you open an Apple or Panasonic or whatever brand product, and inside you find a custom PSU made by TDK-Lambda or Delta or whatever. Not even big brands waste time on PSU design, so why would a little company like Pace do it? No, you just have a specialist company do it for you. It’s cheaper, faster, and safer.)

And what do you mean about AC loads?!? A soldering iron heater is perfectly happy with DC, it doesn’t need AC. It’s not as though SMPSs have trouble with pulsed loads — if they did, devices that use an SMPS to power a class-D amplifier would have trouble, but they’re commonplace. Same with things like LED video walls, whose current draw changes at the display refresh rate.)

[2N3055]

I think JBC has more aggressive D part of PID.. It probably has more of an overshoot. Also it poses the question if there is such thing as too fast recovery..
There are stations now that deliberately make temp recovery slower, to minimize thermal shock on components. Some Ersa stations have a three level setting for thermal recovery inertia..

I think Pace is good enough for general work, on par or slightly better than Hakko. Good choice of tips and good tip prices.

JBC tips are very expensive, they sell tips for tweezers individually..

But , more or less, you can get Ersa, or Hakko or PACE and get a good tool.
What I want to see if this ADS200 station will accept thermal tweezers.

With every manufacturer, tweezers demand different power unit. If this PACE ADS200 will accept micro tweezers, and you give a good choice of inexpensive tweezer tips... That's a winner.
LED display is awesome. User interface is meh, adequate...

So for me if there will be good and affordable tweezers that I can connect directly to ADS200 power unit so I don't have to buy separate PSU is a winner..
Also, nobody makes power unit with two iron sockets, but with a switch, to select iron 1 or 2 only one at the time. Todays units are so fast, you could switch back and forth with a switch.
If you release tweezers for ADS200 I might just buy ADS200 and tweezers and make something like that externally...

[PACE-Worldwide]

With every manufacturer, tweezers demand different power unit. If this PACE ADS200 will accept micro tweezers, and you give a good choice of inexpensive tweezer tips... That's a winner.
LED display is awesome. User interface is meh, adequate...

So for me if there will be good and affordable tweezers that I can connect directly to ADS200 power unit so I don't have to buy separate PSU is a winner..
Also, nobody makes power unit with two iron sockets, but with a switch, to select iron 1 or 2 only one at the time. Todays units are so fast, you could switch back and forth with a switch.
If you release tweezers for ADS200 I might just buy ADS200 and tweezers and make something like that externally...

Thanks for the comments. A new Thermal Tweezer is in the works but will not be available until at least Oct/Nov and will only work on the ADS200.

Aaron

[In Vacuo Veritas]

So I guess "No JBCs were harmed in the making of this thread. This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, businesses, places, events, locales, and incidents are either the products of the author’s imagination or used in a fictitious manner. Any resemblance to actual unsurpassed thermal performance is purely coincidental."

[elektropionir]

He wasn’t comparing EU list prices...

Well we are comparing SOME prices, and I like to compare prices that I would be charged, not some wishlist wholesale prices. I think that is fair.
We were told it would be around 200USD or 200Euro. And so far I have not seen these prices anywhere. Presently this product costs as much as JBC in EU and in AU, so I think the comparison is fair.

If Pace becomes 100Euro in the future, i would recommend it as an incredible value for money, but now it is just not!

You think even €20 on sale is “affordable”, when Pace and Ersa do it for €10?

Please send me a link to a 10 Euro chisel Pace tip?
And yes, tip price of 20-30 euro IS affordable. An engineer lives and dies by his tools, so 20E is nothing for a tool that you will use for years if not decades. I love to have good selection of tips for all jobs.

What concrete advantages does using a “modern” MCU confer?
The temp jumping is obviously software, so presumably they can fix this in a future firmware version.

Modern uController offers many advantages, that I do not have time or desire to go into here. But more importantly, using an obsolete micro and quite frankly wasting money on unnecessary components elsewhere is a statement of just simply bad and unprofessional level of design. At the very best, done by someone inexperienced.

It should be fixed already. I do not want to re-flash my tools, or have weekly updates. Again, it is a soldering station, not a smartphone...

Retro, yes. But is it actually worse? I hate the LCD on my Ersa (not backlit, so hard to read under a shelf), and the dot matrix LCD on the JBC looks terrible.

Tons of people would be happier to just have a damned knob and a simple temp display. (Look at how many people wish Hakko had not replaced the FX-888 with the FX-888D, which has an awful user interface.)

And of course there’s also simple product differentiation. Pace does make some models that use LCDs, but they’re higher-end.

I will not comment on your personal taste or preference, but you just used "strawman" logical fallacy by assuming I want JBC style interface.
I was not commenting on JBC display or ERSA, or WELLER... I said the user interface is dated. I have seen dirt cheap Chinese products with proper interface and a clear display, so it CAN be done for a price. (one more advange of using modern uControllers)

Nobody claimed competing handles were falling apart.

It was a slight hyperbole but not much. One of their advertising point in their materials is "THE QUALITY", as well here it was mentioned many times about the effort of redesigning the handle completely. While I appreciate attention to details, it somehow feels like they have missed many, and I say many a weak spots of this product.
Again it is evidence of amateurism.

I asked about using universal input SMPSs. I don’t think we are on the same page, though.

SMPS design is not exactly an obscure art these days, but moreover they could do like everyone else and just have a PSU manufacturer custom build a PSU board. (Like how if you open an Apple or Panasonic or whatever brand product, and inside you find a custom PSU made by TDK-Lambda or Delta or whatever. Not even big brands waste time on PSU design, so why would a little company like Pace do it? No, you just have a specialist company do it for you. It’s cheaper, faster, and safer.)

And what do you mean about AC loads?!? A soldering iron heater is perfectly happy with DC, it doesn’t need AC. It’s not as though SMPSs have trouble with pulsed loads — if they did, devices that use an SMPS to power a class-D amplifier would have trouble, but they’re commonplace. Same with things like LED video walls, whose current draw changes at the display refresh rate.)

Wrong again. Actually to get a professional level SMPS, well tested and reliable, and to make it for a price. To pass approvals and safety test, takes about 1-1.5 years of work of one or two competent engineers.

You are suggesting they should simply replace 50Hz trafo with a fixed output voltage, wide input range SMPS designed by 3rd party. That might be too expensive, AND/OR would require heavy filtering on the output of the smps and the result would still be sh*t with compromised limited lifetime. I was talking about AC load not AC output current, but ok, pulsed load if you wish...
It is far from unsolvable problem, it is matter of money spent of filtering, but standard of the shelf power supplies would have a lot of trouble with 100Hz pulse load because output caps would see entire ripple current.
It is very hard to find a well designed SMPS in the class D amps now that you mentioned it.

A smart way to do this would be to incorporate SMPS controll loop into the control of the tip temperature. You would have a current output smps, that is controlled by a temperature control loop. And all this could even be done digitally with the modern uController.
That is why I said they would have to change their temperature control method.

[Mr. Scram]

I'm not entirely impressed by the Pace's construction, but the lower TCO due to the tips being reasonably priced and probably longer lasting is very attractive. When you get to the nicer bits of kit, it's all about TCO. The initial purchase price really isn't that relevant.

[2N3055]

Welectron:

Ultra 1131-0055-P1 (6.35mm Chisel)13.82 €
JBC C245-966 Soldering Tip 6.5x1.7mm Chisel 21.43 €

Ultra 1131-0008-P1 (1.20mm 30° Chisel)13.82 €
JBC C210-008 Soldering Tip 1.3x0.6mm Chisel 29.33 €

So yes there is difference, especially if you want to buy a collection of tips

[tooki]

He wasn’t comparing EU list prices...

Well we are comparing SOME prices, and I like to compare prices that I would be charged, not some wishlist wholesale prices. I think that is fair.
We were told it would be around 200USD or 200Euro. And so far I have not seen these prices anywhere. Presently this product costs as much as JBC in EU and in AU, so I think the comparison is fair.

If Pace becomes 100Euro in the future, i would recommend it as an incredible value for money, but now it is just not!

Nobody said it would be $200. The MSRP is around $240 and the street price so far is between $220-240. You are basically angry that they didn't meet a price point that you imagined in your head.

Edit: Here's the link to Pace's actual statement on prices: "The ADS200 is only US$239/€ 225/£199 each vs WJS 100 US$360/€ 325/£265 each!"

What their regional distributors do is out of their control. Yeah, it sucks that many of them mark things up insanely, but it's not Pace's fault. (Believe me, this stuff angers me all the time, I live in Switzerland, famous for high markups. At least it's gotten better over the past 25 years…)

You think even €20 on sale is “affordable”, when Pace and Ersa do it for €10?

Please send me a link to a 10 Euro chisel Pace tip?
And yes, tip price of 20-30 euro IS affordable. An engineer lives and dies by his tools, so 20E is nothing for a tool that you will use for years if not decades. I love to have good selection of tips for all jobs.

Tips aren't the part you use for decades. They're consumables, and you may need lots of them.

What concrete advantages does using a “modern” MCU confer?
The temp jumping is obviously software, so presumably they can fix this in a future firmware version.

Modern uController offers many advantages, that I do not have time or desire to go into here. But more importantly, using an obsolete micro and quite frankly wasting money on unnecessary components elsewhere is a statement of just simply bad and unprofessional level of design. At the very best, done by someone inexperienced.

If you're unwilling to list any advantages of a modern MCU, then I'm unwilling to accept your argument.

It should be fixed already. I do not want to re-flash my tools, or have weekly updates. Again, it is a soldering station, not a smartphone...

Agreed that the firmware seems a bit rushed. It also seems they're running into issues due to this being their first foray into lower cost markets, and thus suddenly being exposed to the different expectations of the hobbyist user group.

Retro, yes. But is it actually worse? I hate the LCD on my Ersa (not backlit, so hard to read under a shelf), and the dot matrix LCD on the JBC looks terrible.

Tons of people would be happier to just have a damned knob and a simple temp display. (Look at how many people wish Hakko had not replaced the FX-888 with the FX-888D, which has an awful user interface.)

And of course there’s also simple product differentiation. Pace does make some models that use LCDs, but they’re higher-end.

I will not comment on your personal taste or preference, but you just used "strawman" logical fallacy by assuming I want JBC style interface.
I was not commenting on JBC display or ERSA, or WELLER... I said the user interface is dated. I have seen dirt cheap Chinese products with proper interface and a clear display, so it CAN be done for a price. (one more advange of using modern uControllers)

You said it was dated, and I basically agreed. My question was basically as to whether the new interfaces are actually superior, because I think they're often not.

Nobody claimed competing handles were falling apart.

It was a slight hyperbole but not much. One of their advertising point in their materials is "THE QUALITY", as well here it was mentioned many times about the effort of redesigning the handle completely. While I appreciate attention to details, it somehow feels like they have missed many, and I say many a weak spots of this product.
Again it is evidence of amateurism.

You keep calling them inexperienced and amateurs, but they've been in this business for 60 years.

I asked about using universal input SMPSs. I don’t think we are on the same page, though.

SMPS design is not exactly an obscure art these days, but moreover they could do like everyone else and just have a PSU manufacturer custom build a PSU board. (Like how if you open an Apple or Panasonic or whatever brand product, and inside you find a custom PSU made by TDK-Lambda or Delta or whatever. Not even big brands waste time on PSU design, so why would a little company like Pace do it? No, you just have a specialist company do it for you. It’s cheaper, faster, and safer.)

And what do you mean about AC loads?!? A soldering iron heater is perfectly happy with DC, it doesn’t need AC. It’s not as though SMPSs have trouble with pulsed loads — if they did, devices that use an SMPS to power a class-D amplifier would have trouble, but they’re commonplace. Same with things like LED video walls, whose current draw changes at the display refresh rate.)

Wrong again. Actually to get a professional level SMPS, well tested and reliable, and to make it for a price. To pass approvals and safety test, takes about 1-1.5 years of work of one or two competent engineers.

So… what am I wrong about? LMAO. Sounds to me like you like to cry "WRONG" for the fun of it, completely unrelated to factual accuracy.

Are you saying it's cheaper, faster, and safer to design a PSU in-house than to outsource it to a specialist company? Yeah, right. I have a bridge to sell you…

You are suggesting they should simply replace 50Hz trafo with a fixed output voltage, wide input range SMPS designed by 3rd party.

I asked about it because I am curious as to why soldering stations have remained with linear power supplies while nearly every other type of product has moved to SMPSs, which have many advantages. It's a valid question.

Your followup comments imply to me that you continue to be not on the same page, I think we're discussing very different things somehow. I don't think you've really understood my point.

That might be too expensive, AND/OR would require heavy filtering on the output of the smps and the result would still be sh*t with compromised limited lifetime. I was talking about AC load not AC output current, but ok, pulsed load if you wish…

Again: what the fuck does an "AC load" mean? A heater is a resistive load, it's neither inherently AC nor DC.

Why would it need heavy filtering? A resistive heater has a ton of thermal inertia, so there's really no need for heavy filtering at all.

It is far from unsolvable problem, it is matter of money spent of filtering, but standard of the shelf power supplies would have a lot of trouble with 100Hz pulse load because output caps would see entire ripple current.
It is very hard to find a well designed SMPS in the class D amps now that you mentioned it.

Hahahah yeah, right. Then how come power supplies routinely handle exactly such loads?

A smart way to do this would be to incorporate SMPS controll loop into the control of the tip temperature. You would have a current output smps, that is controlled by a temperature control loop. And all this could even be done digitally with the modern uController.
That is why I said they would have to change their temperature control method.

You mean using tip temp feedback directly in the SMPS control loop? That'd be interesting for sure. More complicated than anything I envisioned, but presumably more efficient.

Oh, here we go again with the "modern MCU" schpiel… give it a rest.

[exe]

It is bad tip oxidation on JBC which drives me mad.

Up until now I haven't seen any complains about JBC tips. Actually, I sew the opposite: people reported them as long-living ("you never have to buy it again"). It's amazing how  "general opinion" can swing so much in such a short period of time. Worse yet, without any actual reliability data (other than relative thickness of protection layer, which says nothing about performance in, e.g., my case). So, may be PACE is twice more reliable. But if it's 100 years vs 200 years, who cares?

[Alex Eisenhut]

As promised, I got it today, but it looks like someone else is enjoying it ATM...

[exe]

I think JBC has more aggressive D part of PID.. It probably has more of an overshoot. Also it poses the question if there is such thing as too fast recovery..

Idk, but not having overshoot was a marketing program of JBC. They even produced some plots, you can google their report.

PS poor jbc, looks like people really try hard to find flaws in their irons just because of provoking thread title.

PPS I'm happy user of a t12 clone

[tooki]

As promised, I got it today, but it looks like someone else is enjoying it ATM...

Well, it’s obvious, you’re going to have to order another. That one is taken.  (Beautiful kitty, by the way!! <3 )

[tooki]

It is bad tip oxidation on JBC which drives me mad.

Up until now I haven't seen any complains about JBC tips. Actually, I sew the opposite: people reported them as long-living ("you never have to buy it again"). It's amazing how  "general opinion" can swing so much in such a short period of time. Worse yet, without any actual reliability data (other than relative thickness of protection layer, which says nothing about performance in, e.g., my case). So, may be PACE is twice more reliable. But if it's 100 years vs 200 years, who cares?

You sure about that? My impression here on the forums was that Ersa tips last forever, Hakko is in the middle, and that JBC and Weller are more short-lived.

[labjr]

Nothing wrong with a linear power supply. In fact, I prefer a linear supply and Class A amplifiers too. Linear supplies are simple and reliable. Who cares about efficiency? Not me. I feel like I'm getting more for my money when there's a heavy transformer inside. All the top brands of soldering stations still use linear supplies.

SMPS power supplies are more complicated and have reliability issues, EMI problems etc. Judging by the failures I've seen, they're hard on filter caps and they fail catastrophically. All those cheapo T12 clone stations use SMPS supplies. No thanks.

[Fsck]

It is bad tip oxidation on JBC which drives me mad.

Up until now I haven't seen any complains about JBC tips. Actually, I sew the opposite: people reported them as long-living ("you never have to buy it again"). It's amazing how  "general opinion" can swing so much in such a short period of time. Worse yet, without any actual reliability data (other than relative thickness of protection layer, which says nothing about performance in, e.g., my case). So, may be PACE is twice more reliable. But if it's 100 years vs 200 years, who cares?

You sure about that? My impression here on the forums was that Ersa tips last forever, Hakko is in the middle, and that JBC and Weller are more short-lived.

I think it's also that not very many of us are using them as production irons so we're not blowing through the plating as quickly.

[KL27x]

"No calibration" feature is just a marketing BS. I am sorry for being harsh, but hardware "particularities" are obvious in software as well, with temperatures jumping up and down all the time... To me, there is no excuse for this. Soldering station is a simple product, and today there are countless fast and cheap u-Controllers on the market that could eat anything you throw at it. JBCs are using dsPICs and they have usb interface, and you can get stm32s for pennies today...

This is not just harsh, it's a little-off base. We just watched Dave open up multiple sealed tips, set the temp, and BAM. Like magic, they measured within 1 degree of the set temp. That is impressive, in itself. Sample of only what, 2? or 3? But they hit the mark. Hakko made a station that did this (I don't know if it was as spot on), but they needed to put a barcode on the different sized/shaped tips. And last I checked, they dropped the whole idea.

Then the modern micro thing? Firstly, what does that matter? Second, which suitable micros have a 17 bit ADC? Finally, why in the world do you think the hardware is causing the temp to jump? What makes you think the temp is jumping, at all? As far as anyone knows, simply from watching this video, the iron was doing exactly what it was supposed to. It could be a software thing that affects only the display.

Can you tell us what you have used USB interface for on your JBC?

As far as iron plating and set temp, there's only 2 things that I care about, here. Yes, like Dave, I aim for the lowest temp that works, properly, for the task at hand. But as far as "damage to components," that is typically not even on my radar. The temp is only one part of the equation (and set temp isn't equal to the temp the joint gets!). The other part is dwell time. So when the joint flows, you remove the iron. It's not rocket science.

Back to the 2 thing that matter. The reason for the lowest temp that works is tip life and how fast does the tip crust over and oxidize. So at this temp..

1. How long do the tips last?
2. How often do I have to stop and clean the tip due to oxidation and/or burnt flux to keep it working?

You have to do a lot of soldering to find out.

Pace traditionally makes irons for production work. To put in perspective, Metcal/Thermaltronics recommend their 700F series tips for general purpose including leadfree. The average set temp (probably depending on tip size/shape) is? Wait for it.... 370C. Metcal are also well regarded in production soldering environments.

The fact that JBC will melt the leadfree on a big ground plane at 285C (with a beastly huge tip)? Unless the tip lasts significantly longer and requires less frequent cleaning, it's nothing but a fancy parlor trick.

[elektropionir]

First of all, that is one nice kitty

@Tooki

You are right regarding the price. I did not check the advertised numbers for some time. I remembered it was around 200E. So it was 225E. However current prices are what they are.
I was commenting on what I see online regarding offers. And so far there is only one store that is holding these (welectron !?), until today I did not know this shop, but they have Pace. Are there any others that currently have ads200 in stock.

You are basically angry that they didn't meet a price point that you imagined in your head.

You are assuming my state of mind and my motivations. Please do not do that because I do not get emotionally invested in a simple commodity or into internet discussions. It is a stupid soldering station not cure for cancer. I was simply commenting on one aspect of what was advertised vs delivered.

You asked a question of using SMPS in soldering stations. It is perfectly valid question. I asked myself that previously as well..

There are a LOT of drawbacks to using smps, not the least of which is that they are complicated.
Compared to 100-200W standard 50Hz trafo, SMPS will almost always be more expensive and less efficient.

Older soldering stations as well as JBCs have one active component, a triac, or in  this new PACE mosfet bridge that is much more efficient but still nice and simple to control. They do not even need a heatsink for the bridge since they switch them at 0V crossing.

SMPS will have between 3-5 switching components, and all of them will have more losses. Radiated and conducted noise are going to be much higher and subject to become a problem over time...

Standard SMPS has around 200 components. As you said, there is no chance they could assemble them inhouse. They would have to source them from 1 company, while they can get their trafo from 100 companies produced to their specifications. SMPS might have to be custom made by the supplier to fit their housing, and it is hard to find a supplier willing to do that job since approvals will have to be redone, unless volumes involved are very high.
Prices of the trafos will probably not change while prices of SMPS are not as stable. Lead times during past 2 years are insanely high for magnetics as well as semiconductors...

Simple trafo has a good power factor. It is much more safer and more reliable. It will work in 100 years as well as it works today. No lifetime limiting elcaps. One elco usually found is powering a micro, and other low power electronics. From a volume point of view for 100ish W 50Hz trafo might even be smaller.

I believe you misunderstood my comment about filtering, it has nothing to do with thermal mass of the tip...

Heater is a fixed value, and output of the PSU is a fixed voltage. For duty cyle 100% lets say that is 100W. if you want to lower the power to 10W, you switch it with 10% duty cycle. In switching moment the output elko will see high peak current (I called it ac load because from the PSU side you will see those AC peaks trough the output elkos, while I admit pulsed load is better term it might be due language), despite being 10W only the ripple of the elkos will be the same. For higher switching frequencies losses and problems rise exponentially.

@KL27x
Stm32 and dsPICs have internal 16bit micro, and if your thermocouple amplifier is solid, you will get the same "magic"
You do not need USB, but you get it for free, so your customers can update the firmware when you publish it. No way to update pace.


Pleasant weekend!

[nanofrog]

As promised, I got it today, but it looks like someone else is enjoying it ATM...

I see you've similar lab assistants.   

If I can get the lot to settle just long enough for a photo, I'll post it. Unfortunately, mine are both clever and camera shy enough that this will be a tough task.

[KL27x]

Elecktropionir: Obvious circuit/PCB design guy. Am I right? Just put the little bits on there, and then those other dudes just make the rest happen.

(Also, when I see the display/temp thing, I'm super inclined to think it's software, not hardware.)

Good weekend!

[Cliff Matthews]

Quote from: elektropionir on Today at 07:59:42 pm

@KL27x
Stm32 and dsPICs have internal 16bit micro, and if your thermocouple amplifier is solid, you will get the same "magic"
You do not need USB, but you get it for free, so your customers can update the firmware when you publish it.

No way to update pace.

I think Aaron covered that in #55 (and maybe another thread?). When required, they send it along with PLCC tweezers.

*edit Another post over on EEV#1106 here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1106-pace-ads200-soldering-station-review-(jbc-killer)/msg1685777/#msg1685777