Pace ADS200 soldering station

[Cliff Matthews]

Some observations: TC500ACOE is not so costly, it lists as a $2.50 part (est. 1000's price). Date sheet header says designer can trade resolution for speed, but no more than 10sps. Marco Reps investigation shows unbuffered 120hz DC to the tip..

*edit - Opps forgot, here's the index to the point he made: https://youtu.be/erKCA71q7cg?t=843

[exe]

TC500ACOE

Wait, but that's not ADC. It's an ADC _frontend_. Now it's getting really weird...

Marco Reps investigation shows unbuffered 120hz DC to the tip..

You mean 100Hz? (He's in Germany, afaik, so should be 50Hz mains) Uhm, so, I guess, there is no control to fets at all, are they connected like this? https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/203315/storing-the-the-charge-from-a-mosfet-bridge-rectifier . But then I wonder why rectifying at all? Why not drive iron from AC?

[Cliff Matthews]

There's also an ICL7660A to run +- 5V to that front-end..

[alank2]

I don't know too much about these things, but when it comes to temperature regulation and PID loops, wouldn't more resolution/precision offer superior control, irregardless of the display?  Could the ADC resolution be primary there to drive control?  Maybe this is obvious..

[labjr]

BTW, consider making a series of "performance tips" with better heat transfer (and shorter tip life). It's a win-win: 1) better performance 2) people will have to buy more tips from you if they want performance 3) less coating material used

Another idea: sell the station as a kit. I'd love to assemble one by myself.

I wonder if performance could be improved with a more aggressive ramp-up curve with a bit of overshoot. Or the ability to select different performance curves required for the task.

Kits would probably need too much support.

[nanofrog]

BTW, consider making a series of "performance tips" with better heat transfer (and shorter tip life). It's a win-win: 1) better performance 2) people will have to buy more tips from you if they want performance 3) less coating material used

Another idea: sell the station as a kit. I'd love to assemble one by myself.

I wonder if performance could be improved with a more aggressive ramp-up curve with a bit of overshoot. Or the ability to select different performance curves required for the task.

Kits would probably need too much support.

In regard to selectable curves, Ersa does that on their i-Con 1/2/4 models.

Kits would be a horrible idea for Pace. Just way too much aggravation, potential damage to their reputation, and increased costs (they're not Heathkit, which is long gone).

[tooki]

I wonder if performance could be improved with a more aggressive ramp-up curve with a bit of overshoot. Or the ability to select different performance curves required for the task.

In regard to selectable curves, Ersa does that on their i-Con 1/2/4 models.

All the i-Con series have that, even the nano and pico. (It’s configured via SD card, using the desktop app.)

[exe]

Just watched Marco Reps's video. Afaik, there is no "active" rectification, just mosfets connected in "ideal diode" configuration. Which is fine.

The station switches heater at zero crossing. This means decisions are made at the rate twice the line frequency. So, in the worst case there is a delay of 10ms. Why I'm saying this? Just to say that even a slow SMPS would work just fine (I'm not sure they are really slow as some users report here). But, again, doesn't really matter.

Concerning display and other fancy features. It is true they are not essential for soldering. But noobs like me like them. So, it's just a matter of target market. Also would make possible to change profiles, preset temperatures, etc easier (ersa with configuration on sdcard is a joke).

I personally like rotating encoders with push button. Minimalistic and convenient.

[Cliff Matthews]

Just watched Marco Reps's video. Afaik, there is no "active" rectification, just mosfets connected in "ideal diode" configuration.

Not so fast, take a look at 15:25 (https://youtu.be/erKCA71q7cg?t=843 ) bottom left is right under the mosfets. I couldn't get a good enough look at the tiny part number, but Z1 and Z4 could be dual zener's who's tab could be under uC control.

*edit - those are ZXMN4A06G n-ch mosfets, if that makes any sense (it might have been easier with p-ch?).

[exe]

There are two N-fets and two P-fets (yeah, they are different, hard to see on video, but part numbers slightly different, they are ZXMP, not ZXMN). I wasn't able to trace all the traces, but I think it's this bridge:

.

Looking at the video, it seems the station has more part than I expected. Still curious how they use adc frontend.

[nanofrog]

I wonder if performance could be improved with a more aggressive ramp-up curve with a bit of overshoot. Or the ability to select different performance curves required for the task.

In regard to selectable curves, Ersa does that on their i-Con 1/2/4 models.

All the i-Con series have that, even the nano and pico. (It’s configured via SD card, using the desktop app.)

I wasn't aware the SD card was usable for that.

Seems a bit of a PITA though vs. the rotary encoder with button operated menu system in the bigger siblings.

[Cliff Matthews]

There are two N-fets and two P-fets (yeah, they are different, hard to see on video, but part numbers slightly different, they are ZXMP, not ZXMN). I wasn't able to trace all the traces, but I think it's this bridge:

.

Looking at the video, it seems the station has more part than I expected. Still curious how they use adc frontend.

You have good eyes! I'm still curious where Vin for the 7805 comes from (it won't boot without it..) The body diodes?

*Edit - In future model updates etc..
If Pace considers a single transformer with dual winding's, they might consider internal wiring only, since a station incorrectly strapped for 120v on 240v would require 80v mosfets and good crowbar to protect (yet again another reason for SMPS as some have suggested).

[Alex Eisenhut]

I don't like how small the sponge cubby is. Solder blobs fly out all the time. The sponge is half the size of the Hakko 936's.

Really don't like this.

[Bud]

JBC sponge is also tiny.

[Alex Eisenhut]

JBC sponge is also tiny.

I probably wouldn't like it either. 

[Shock]

No brass wool holder on the Hakko 936 stand, so 90s

[nanofrog]

If you'd rather use a sponge only, then why not just remove the brass wool box so you can install a larger one?

Or is there some technical reason preventing this that I'm not seeing in the photos?

[Alex Eisenhut]

I don't know what came over me to do this this morning, but here we are. I'll finish up later.

[nanofrog]

As promised, I got it today, but it looks like someone else is enjoying it ATM...

Finally uploaded a few photos. Here in the Post a picture of a cat! thread.

[KL27x]

Concerning display and other fancy features. It is true they are not essential for soldering. But noobs like me like them. So, it's just a matter of target market. Also would make possible to change profiles, preset temperatures, etc easier (ersa with configuration on sdcard is a joke).

I personally like rotating encoders with push button. Minimalistic and convenient.

A company that does not have experience with encoders should not be using them for this. Months or years later, when the encoder wears in and the device becomes buggy or even unusable is too big a liability for this. Additionally, a rotary encoder just keeps spinning. A pot, you don't have to look at, which the pot is much preferable to me for a soldering iron control. (Absolute encoders are a thing; a very expensive thing). And finally, no matter how fast is your fancy micro, if you turn a given encoder too fast, it is going to miss steps.

Another problem is the issue of when the encoder actually fails. The parameters of an electric encoder are very specific, and they must be accounted for in the software. If the part can no longer be sourced 10+ years down the line, your station could turn into a paperweight, for practical purposes. Replacing with a different encoder even with the same number of detents could prove problematic due to different bounce characteristics and whatnot. Barring hours of tweaking and debugging and hacking. It may be possible to account for this in the software, in the first place, at least if your micro has speed and resources to dedicate to this. But considering how many devices I own where the designer can't even get the originally specc'ed encoder to work, properly, this is not realistic to just assume as a given. Having tinkered with encoders, myself (with less than 100% reliability, admittedly), I suspect to account for wider range of replacement parts, it might require significant compromise, such as in regards to max rpm that can be detected (at least without user interface to change parameters, which not only takes "work" for the user, but is going to be difficult to do when the only user input is not working).

Save encoder for navigating menu that is more complicated than temp up or down. It might look cool when Marco Reps does it. But anyone who were to rely on that station will eventually curse the design choice.

This is not a TS-100; nor is the TS-100 the future of soldering irons. 

[exe]

A company that does not have experience with encoders should not be using them for this
[skip]

I think you are exaggerating problems. Anyway, you can say the same about pretty much everything, including buttons. They can become obsolete, they miss pushes, you have to look at it, etc. Just buy parts with standard footprint from a reputable supplier, that's the secret. Reliability data is to be found in the datasheet.

BTW, there are other components that can become obsolete. Like, that ADC, etc.

> your station could turn into a paperweight, for practical purposes

That must be a really bad engineer not to be able to repair/replace the encoder. Such people shouldn't buy soldering stations .

PS Do you propose to build all the equipment only with push buttons and 7-segment leds? Otherwise I don't really see the point. Most tools on my bench have screens, etc. I see no point replacing them with something without screens and encoders.

[Alex Eisenhut]

The Alex Edition. Not bad huh?

Warranty void, huh?

[PACE-Worldwide]

The Alex Edition. Not bad huh?

Warranty void, huh?

YEP, I'm tellin' on you ...! 

[tooki]

I wonder if performance could be improved with a more aggressive ramp-up curve with a bit of overshoot. Or the ability to select different performance curves required for the task.

In regard to selectable curves, Ersa does that on their i-Con 1/2/4 models.

All the i-Con series have that, even the nano and pico. (It’s configured via SD card, using the desktop app.)

I wasn't aware the SD card was usable for that.

Seems a bit of a PITA though vs. the rotary encoder with button operated menu system in the bigger siblings.

I think it’s on purpose, so that in production it can’t be dicked around with.

This post (which is actually a reply from me to you in another thread! :p)  has a screenshot of the software for the nano/pico so you can see the options.

[Edit: corrected URL]

[nanofrog]

The Alex Edition. Not bad huh?

Warranty void, huh?

Much nicer solution than splicing the ISB cable. 

Perhaps PACE could sell an extension cable for those that need it?

I think it’s on purpose, so that in production it can’t be dicked around with.

This post (which is actually a reply from me to you in another thread! :p)  has a screenshot of the software for the nano/pico so you can see the options.

Could well be the reason they went that way vs. a USB port.

No explanation of Energy that I saw in the screenshot, but I presume there's a README file that comes with the software and/or thoroughly spelled out in the manual.