Metcal or Thermaltronics or ... ?

[wkb]

We recently had an EZBraid rep drop by and show us their stuff.  They claimed that Metcal let their patents lapse or something and anyone can make compatible tips and such now and that's what they started doing.  They said their Metcal compatible tips are cheaper and last longer.  We got a set of sample tips and have been using them in our Metcal base stations.  They have been going strong for like 4 months now.  I can't tell the difference, and they were a little cheaper.

http://www.easybraidco.com/hand-soldering-c-3-l-en.html

Well patents don't remain valid forever (thank goodness for that) so it wasn't a case of Metcal lapsing something.

Not used EZbraid myself but I can say the Thermaltronics serve me well in my MX500 (hobbyist use btw)

[onesixright]

Hey guys,

// little update

First let me thank you all for weighing in. I finally decided to go for the Metcal MX5201. I placed the order (EU) with smartTec (thanks  0xdeadbeef).

The machine is just in, and i can honestly say, not disappointed at all! A delight to work with!  

And @john_p_wi, you where right, it was worth the wait!

[marber]

FX-1001 only Euro 37 + VAT
FX-1001 + iron holder Euro 74 + VAT

Or with the mass of cheaply available Metcal power supplies in the US. The original ones are fairly easily available for $30-50. If the Hakko handpiece and stand can be had for similar prices in the US, then it's almost a no-brainer, if they perform.

I'm considering doing just that right now.

Does anyone know whether the matching stand to the Hakko FX-1001 also has magnets to reduce the idling temperature, like the Metcal WS1 auto sleep stand?

[zapta]

Does anyone know whether the matching stand to the Hakko FX-1001 also has magnets to reduce the idling temperature, like the Metcal WS1 auto sleep stand?

If you don't get an answer you can try asking here http://kb.hakkousa.com/KnowledgebaseArticle10637.aspx

[amc184]

I've used Metcal irons often for quite some time (both MX500 and MX5000), but I finally just bought my own.  I got a new Thermaltronics SHP-1 (same as a Metcal RM3-E), a couple of new Metcal STSS tips and a used Metcal RFG-30 for about USD120.  It doesn't have a sleep mode, and only drives one iron, but it solders just as well as any other Metcal I've used, making it a great budget option.

If you don't get an answer you can try asking here http://kb.hakkousa.com/KnowledgebaseArticle10637.aspx

That's be a good alternative.  I'm a little bit surprised that Hakko so definitively declared them compatible.

[zapta]

That's be a good alternative.  I'm a little bit surprised that Hakko so definitively declared them compatible.

Note that the hakko tips themselves are not compatible.

[timofonic]

Can anyone do a 1:1 scientifical test of classical high end soldering irons VS curie point soldering irons of old and new generations?

It could be very interesting!

[marber]

I've used Metcal irons often for quite some time (both MX500 and MX5000), but I finally just bought my own.  I got a new Thermaltronics SHP-1 (same as a Metcal RM3-E), a couple of new Metcal STSS tips and a used Metcal RFG-30 for about USD120.  It doesn't have a sleep mode, and only drives one iron, but it solders just as well as any other Metcal I've used, making it a great budget option.

So Thermaltronics SHP-1's stand also doesn't sleep then? Or are you using it without or with a different stand?

If you don't get an answer you can try asking here http://kb.hakkousa.com/KnowledgebaseArticle10637.aspx

That's be a good alternative.  I'm a little bit surprised that Hakko so definitively declared them compatible.

Yeah, indeed. Pretty nice. And I like the (Hakko FX-888 like) stand a bit better than Metcal's anyway.

[GreyWoolfe]

Can anyone do a 1:1 scientifical test of classical high end soldering irons VS curie point soldering irons of old and new generations?

It could be very interesting!

Nanofrog and I are planning just such a thing after the holidays.  He has a Weller (forgot which model and too lazy to read back emails) and I have a Hakko FX-951 and a Metcal MX-500.  After we do it, we will compile information and will post results and methodology.

[FireFlower]

Would this help?

[amc184]

So Thermaltronics SHP-1's stand also doesn't sleep then? Or are you using it without or with a different stand?

I'm using an older Metcal stand, probably contemporary to the RFG-30.  It's not flash, but it's cast metal and fits the iron very well, so I like it.  No sleep magnet fitted.

[GreyWoolfe]

Just as a point of information, the Thermaltronics SHP-1 is not a stand but a replacement wand for the Metcal MX-RM3E.  The SHH-1 is the sleep stand and should work fine with the MX-500P.  As amc184 noted, the Metcal RFG-30 doesn't have sleep mode but the MX-500P does.  I was fortunate on eBay and scored NOS RM3E and sleep stand for $130 USD.  By the way, if someone is looking for an RM3E here is someone selling new at $85 USD plus $7.09 shipping.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/METCAL-MX-RM3E-SOLDER-HANDPIECE-FOR-MX-500-NEW-flr-cab-1-/221893602195?hash=item33a9e3ab93:g:V8wAAOSwyQtVqsrp

[timofonic]

USA...Nothing for us unlucky Europeans...

I know our name is related to rapping, but please don't take it too literal

[dkjer]

Does anyone know if the Tweezer Hand-Pieces are interchangeable between Metcal and Thermaltronics?  Could I, for example, use the MX-PTZ on a TMT-9000S?  How about MX-TALON?

[marber]

Does anyone know if the Tweezer Hand-Pieces are interchangeable between Metcal and Thermaltronics?  Could I, for example, use the MX-PTZ on a TMT-9000S?  How about MX-TALON?

I'm pretty sure they are. Cloning Metcal products and being fully compatible appears to be their business model.

[Floyo]

I'm almost certain the handpieces and powersupplies are all fully compatible, the only thing I'm not sure about is if the tips for the Thermaltronics MTZ also fit the Metcal MX-PTZ and vice versa.
Thermaltronics does not specifically list them as compatible in their cross-reference as far as I can see.
It would be nice if someone could clear this up, the Thermaltronics tips are quite a bit more affordable, and I need some new ones for the tweezers.

[dkjer]

I'm also curious about the TT MTZ Series compatibility with Metcal PTTC Cartridges.  I didn't see any cross references showing that these are compatible, however I did see this:

http://www.thermaltronics.com.au/index.php/soldering-systems/62-soldering-stations/194-tmt-9000ts-2

At the bottom is mentions "For a list of Tweezer Tips, follow this link" and links to PTTC cartridges:

http://www.thermaltronics.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=226

It doesn't mention SHP-MTZ Tweezer Handpiece specifically though, just mentions "Surface Mount Tweezers with Stand".

Very confusing 

[dkjer]

Interesting, here is a list of the MTZ Series datasheets: http://www.thermaltronics.com/tz-kit-1.php .  For example, http://www.thermaltronics.com/datasheet/M60TZ003 .  They *do* mention "For Use With:   TMT-9000S-1, TMT-9000S-2, MX-500, MX-5000, MX-5200".  So perhaps they are compatible?  Or perhaps they mean compatible with the TMT-9000S *if* you are using a Metcal MX-PTZ?

[Floyo]

Or perhaps they mean compatible with the TMT-9000S *if* you are using a Metcal MX-PTZ?

That was my interpretation, as in, the base station is capable of outputting a signal that the tweezers can work with.
I will email the distributer I got my other Thermaltronics tips from, see if they know more about it.

[Floyo]

Ok, I heard back from my supplier, and they say that the Thermaltronics MTZ tips are *NOT* compatible with the Metcal MX-PTZ handpiece. Which is a shame since the original Metcal tips are twice the cost
I guess there is still some patent or something in place preventing them from making fully interchangeable tips, its weird that a company whose business model is totally based on compatibility at lower cost would miss out on having all products compatible if at all possible.

[dkjer]

Good info, thanks Floyo!

I just snagged a new EB-9000S on eBay ($100, got lucky!) and I'm trying to decide whether to get the Metcal or the Thermaltronics/EB tweezer kit.  Sounds like going with the Thermaltronics will be cheaper in the long run, though I can't find any comparison / reviews on quality differences.

Does anyone have experience with the difference between Metcal vs TT tweezers?

[dkjer]

Figured I would throw a random data point on the EasyBraid EB-9000S.  It worked quite well for a day with general soldering.  Up until I switched ports.

After switching to the second port with the SHP-MTZ tweezers (which worked fine), I switched back to the first port.  No heating up, and the display just read "Load 00".  After turning off/on to reset, it still wouldn't heat up, and started periodically displaying 'Error (22)'.

At this point I noticed smoke coming out of the unit, and a terrible burnt electronics smell filling the room.

I'm hoping they will be easy to deal with for the warranty, but I'm pretty frustrated that I only got a day of use out of it before burning out.

[timofonic]

Figured I would throw a random data point on the EasyBraid EB-9000S.  It worked quite well for a day with general soldering.  Up until I switched ports.

After switching to the second port with the SHP-MTZ tweezers (which worked fine), I switched back to the first port.  No heating up, and the display just read "Load 00".  After turning off/on to reset, it still wouldn't heat up, and started periodically displaying 'Error (22)'.

At this point I noticed smoke coming out of the unit, and a terrible burnt electronics smell filling the room.

I'm hoping they will be easy to deal with for the warranty, but I'm pretty frustrated that I only got a day of use out of it before burning out.

Uhh...


Easy...Broken?

[marber]

Or with the mass of cheaply available Metcal power supplies in the US. The original ones are fairly easily available for $30-50. If the Hakko handpiece and stand can be had for similar prices in the US, then it's almost a no-brainer, if they perform.

I'm considering doing just that right now.

Does anyone know whether the matching stand to the Hakko FX-1001 also has magnets to reduce the idling temperature, like the Metcal WS1 auto sleep stand?

I bought a new Hakko FX-1001 iron + stand to combine with a used MX-500 this month, and just gave it away as a Christmas present. First report is that it works very very well indeed. It's a winning combination if one can find a used MX-500 for cheap.

(and no, the Hakko stand doesn't have the magnets for sleep mode...)

[r342f2f]

where did everyone purchase their tips from?  I see thermaltronics sells the products on amazon and there are some distributors selling them cheaper.  I see on the thermaltronics site that they have interchangeable tips to the metal units.  anyone use the thermaltronics tips on a metal MX500?  I am curious if anyone else has tried before I go and buy.