Metcal GT-90/120 is still a METCAL?

[Everbrave]

I was wondering why should one buy a Metcal GT-120 or GT-90 and not any other induction heated soldering station such as Quick 3202 (I have one and it’s a performer) or Xytronic LF-3200 or others which not only cheaper but also with cheaper tips!
The triumph characteristics of a METCAL were:
- HF inductive heating at 13.5MHz (small cartridge)
- integrated, direct tip heating
- seamless temperature regulation using Curie-point magnetic property
Then they relaxed,
- frequency lowered to 450KHz (bigger cartridge) in sp-200 and mfr system
- two-part cheating in PS-900
- digital PID temp. Control in GT-series (not mentioning the external power supply)

So, at the price of the GT-series, why buy it at all?
What’s remaining from METCAl in it?
Arguments are welcome:)

Thanks

[oPossum]

They have had low frequency (450-465 kHz) systems for 30+ years. They work well. Less expensive but fewer tips to choose from relative to the high frequency systems.

[Arts]

I get the impression that the Metcal GT series is all about bells and whistles marketing, while providing very little actual substance. 

Also, I wouldn't buy any induction heated soldering station that did not use Curie-point temperature regulation, regardless of the manufacturer.
 

I have two Metcal PS-900 stations that I use with the PC9 (9 foot cord) handpieces. Tips are dirt cheap and last forever. And despite having a rated output of only 60 Watts, provided that you use an appropriate tip size for really heavy work, heat has never been a problem. Did I mention that they are damned near bulletproof?

[Everbrave]

They have had low frequency (450-465 kHz) systems for 30+ years. They work well. Less expensive but fewer tips to choose from relative to the high frequency systems.

Makes Sense, somehow, to avoid coax cables and thus reduce cost, while sacrificing the cartridge size (skin effect!); I get this one but not the way you GT

[Everbrave]

I get the impression that the Metcal GT series is all about bells and whistles marketing, while providing very little actual substance. 

Also, I wouldn't buy any induction heated soldering station that did not use Curie-point temperature regulation, regardless of the manufacturer.
 

I have two Metcal PS-900 stations that I use with the PC9 (9 foot cord) handpieces. Tips are dirt cheap and last forever. And despite having a rated output of only 60 Watts, provided that you use an appropriate tip size for really heavy work, heat has never been a problem. Did I mention that they are damned near bulletproof?

This is very encouraging since I’m thinking of “upgrading” from the sp-200 to ps-900; is the “upgrade” noticeably enough to justify the extra cost, what do you think?
BTW: CxV tips are not so cheap in Europe; rather on the price level of SxP!

[thm_w]

SDG was not a fan of the GT-90 and 120:


The idea was good, but the execution and price was not. The handpiece is much worse than on the MX5200.
They did cut the price, but, you can get used mx500 or 5000 for half the price so its still not worth really considering for hobbyists.

This is very encouraging since I’m thinking of “upgrading” from the sp-200 to ps-900; is the “upgrade” noticeably enough to justify the extra cost, what do you think?
BTW: CxV tips are not so cheap in Europe; rather on the price level of SxP!

You'd be going from 35W to 60W, so it would be noticeable. I wouldn't pay new prices ($300+), but used prices are usually good.

If you can get something that uses SFP tips, thermaltronics makes them cheaply: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=metcal+sfp
They also make cheap T31 tips: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=t31+thermaltronics

But as you say, can be difficult in Europe. In NA definitely metcal/thermaltronics is great, outside of there its harder to justify if you can't get cheap tips. Maybe if you are lucky you find a set which includes many tips.

[Everbrave]

SDG was not a fan of the GT-90 and 120:


The idea was good, but the execution and price was not. The handpiece is much worse than on the MX5200.
They did cut the price, but, you can get used mx500 or 5000 for half the price so it’s still not worth really considering for hobbyists.

This is very encouraging since I’m thinking of “upgrading” from the sp-200 to ps-900; is the “upgrade” noticeably enough to justify the extra cost, what do you think?
BTW: CxV tips are not so cheap in Europe; rather on the price level of SxP!

You'd be going from 35W to 60W, so it would be noticeable. I wouldn't pay new prices ($300+), but used prices are usually good.

If you can get something that uses SFP tips, thermaltronics makes them cheaply: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=metcal+sfp
They also make cheap T31 tips: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=t31+thermaltronics

But as you say, can be difficult in Europe. In NA definitely metcal/thermaltronics is great, outside of there its harder to justify if you can't get cheap tips. Maybe if you are lucky you find a set which includes many tips.

I wounder what is the idea behind the GT-series?!
My Quick 3202 is a “classical” induction station and performs very well with dirt cheap tips (200-series tips common to many products of this kind).
I take my SP-200 , SSC-638A for delicate soldering. I also have a Weller WS81T (with the LT-tips; small and short) for bigger stuff.

The power rating is primarily helpful in the heat-up time and when soldering items with higher thermal capacity; well, a little longer time brings the required energy with the same power !
Mectal vs. Thermaltronics is an ongoing debate in product as well in cartridge quality, i.e. failure rate; do you have a personal experience writhing the Thermaltronics tips?

[Arts]

SDG was not a fan of the GT-90 and 120:


The idea was good, but the execution and price was not. The handpiece is much worse than on the MX5200.
They did cut the price, but, you can get used mx500 or 5000 for half the price so it’s still not worth really considering for hobbyists.

This is very encouraging since I’m thinking of “upgrading” from the sp-200 to ps-900; is the “upgrade” noticeably enough to justify the extra cost, what do you think?
BTW: CxV tips are not so cheap in Europe; rather on the price level of SxP!

You'd be going from 35W to 60W, so it would be noticeable. I wouldn't pay new prices ($300+), but used prices are usually good.

If you can get something that uses SFP tips, thermaltronics makes them cheaply: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=metcal+sfp
They also make cheap T31 tips: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=t31+thermaltronics

But as you say, can be difficult in Europe. In NA definitely metcal/thermaltronics is great, outside of there its harder to justify if you can't get cheap tips. Maybe if you are lucky you find a set which includes many tips.

I wounder what is the idea behind the GT-series?!

I would think it was nothing more than a marketing exercise designed to target those who feel the need for variable temperature and fancy digital displays

[thm_w]

I wounder what is the idea behind the GT-series?!

Maybe as Arts said, some customer asked for an adjustable temperature or specific temperature they didn't have. Or maybe marketing to get that max 120W output power figure.
GT is also optimized for a lower production cost (smaller, lighter, simpler internals).

The power rating is primarily helpful in the heat-up time and when soldering items with higher thermal capacity; well, a little longer time brings the required energy with the same power !
Mectal vs. Thermaltronics is an ongoing debate in product as well in cartridge quality, i.e. failure rate; do you have a personal experience writhing the Thermaltronics tips?

I have had no metcal or thermaltronics tips fail that I use.
mikeselectric had some fail and returned them under warranty, heres a related thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/thermaltronics-m-series-tips-failing-more-often-than-expected/

The official tips seem to deliver a few more watts of power at peak. But I have no problem with the quality or performance of the thermaltronics tips, especially at $18/ea. Just don't buy their "power plus" junk.

[mtwieg]

The GT series is a bizarre move by Metcal. AFAIK it uses inductive heating, but doesn't work like the smartheat method where each tips temperature is set by its curie point (allowing the temperature setpoint to be varied without changing tips). I presume this means there is a temperature sensor somewhere, though it's not clear where it is.

Metcal is basically undercutting their bread and butter technology. It doesn't really fit any niches that aren't already filled by cheaper brands. Unlike their CV series, which is also a joke in its own way, but at least it claims to do something truly novel (constantly judges your soldering performance and streams that to your boss).

[tszaboo]

The GT series is a bizarre move by Metcal. AFAIK it uses inductive heating, but doesn't work like the smartheat method where each tips temperature is set by its curie point (allowing the temperature setpoint to be varied without changing tips). I presume this means there is a temperature sensor somewhere, though it's not clear where it is.

Metcal is basically undercutting their bread and butter technology. It doesn't really fit any niches that aren't already filled by cheaper brands. Unlike their CV series, which is also a joke in its own way, but at least it claims to do something truly novel (constantly judges your soldering performance and streams that to your boss).

Why would they be undercutting it? For example in our production line, we only have Metcal irons, except one. There is a step which requires a lower temperature iron, something that they didn't have back then. It's a Weller. So this means that there is another supplier for that station, with different purchase orders, and we don't get the same discounts, etc. It's not like you cannot buy the old system anymore. It's like adding an extra option for cases like this.

[Everbrave]

The GT series is a bizarre move by Metcal. AFAIK it uses inductive heating, but doesn't work like the smartheat method where each tips temperature is set by its curie point (allowing the temperature setpoint to be varied without changing tips). I presume this means there is a temperature sensor somewhere, though it's not clear where it is.

Metcal is basically undercutting their bread and butter technology. It doesn't really fit any niches that aren't already filled by cheaper brands. Unlike their CV series, which is also a joke in its own way, but at least it claims to do something truly novel (constantly judges your soldering performance and streams that to your boss).

I totally agree! It makes no sense to me to pay over 500USD as I got a comparable one QUICK 3202; induction heating, compact (and nice looking), well built (SMPS and HF generator in two separate closed aluminum boxes) for 136€ from Amazon. Performs very well in keeping heating up and keeping the temp. I don’t have to worry about and external power supply tangling on a cable somehow (three-body soldering station?!)

[Everbrave]

The GT series is a bizarre move by Metcal. AFAIK it uses inductive heating, but doesn't work like the smartheat method where each tips temperature is set by its curie point (allowing the temperature setpoint to be varied without changing tips). I presume this means there is a temperature sensor somewhere, though it's not clear where it is.

Metcal is basically undercutting their bread and butter technology. It doesn't really fit any niches that aren't already filled by cheaper brands. Unlike their CV series, which is also a joke in its own way, but at least it claims to do something truly novel (constantly judges your soldering performance and streams that to your boss).

Why would they be undercutting it? For example in our production line, we only have Metcal irons, except one. There is a step which requires a lower temperature iron, something that they didn't have back then. It's a Weller. So this means that there is another supplier for that station, with different purchase orders, and we don't get the same discounts, etc. It's not like you cannot buy the old system anymore. It's like adding an extra option for cases like this.

Would be interesting to know how many they sold of these! I think this one is not a value-added to the brand.

[thm_w]

The GT series is a bizarre move by Metcal. AFAIK it uses inductive heating, but doesn't work like the smartheat method where each tips temperature is set by its curie point (allowing the temperature setpoint to be varied without changing tips). I presume this means there is a temperature sensor somewhere, though it's not clear where it is.

You can watch the video, but GT gives you two options:
- curie point tips - $39/ea - GTC
- regular style tips with a heater + temp sensor cartridge - $10/ea - GT6

Performance of the regular tips is much worse.

[Everbrave]

The GT series is a bizarre move by Metcal. AFAIK it uses inductive heating, but doesn't work like the smartheat method where each tips temperature is set by its curie point (allowing the temperature setpoint to be varied without changing tips). I presume this means there is a temperature sensor somewhere, though it's not clear where it is.

You can watch the video, but GT gives you two options:
- curie point tips - $39/ea - GTC
- regular style tips with a heater + temp sensor cartridge - $10/ea - GT6

Performance of the regular tips is much worse.

Honestly, I would buy a PS-900 for half the price !

[mtwieg]

Why would they be undercutting it?

As far back as I can remember, Metcal has touted Smartheat as being inherently superior to sensor-feedback for soldering tips, and they only offered smartheat tips. Releasing a product which doesn't use smartheat undercuts that.

[Everbrave]

Why would they be undercutting it?

As far back as I can remember, Metcal has touted Smartheat as being inherently superior to sensor-feedback for soldering tips, and they only offered smartheat tips. Releasing a product which doesn't use smartheat undercuts that.

I agree; in particular at that price point. I could , perhaps understand if the argument the HF-source for a “classical” Metcal with a variable temp. Controller , thus offering a “Curie-point” and “PID-controlled” induction irons … same heating, two sensors!

[Arts]

The GT series is a bizarre move by Metcal. AFAIK it uses inductive heating, but doesn't work like the smartheat method where each tips temperature is set by its curie point (allowing the temperature setpoint to be varied without changing tips). I presume this means there is a temperature sensor somewhere, though it's not clear where it is.

You can watch the video, but GT gives you two options:
- curie point tips - $39/ea - GTC
- regular style tips with a heater + temp sensor cartridge - $10/ea - GT6

 
Performance of the regular tips is much worse.

Honestly, I would buy a PS-900 for half the price !

Yesterday I needed to attach a new cable to a new ground lug on my step daughters car. Not my usual kind of work, so I don't have a crimp tool for a lug that big.
Grabbed the PS-900 with an SFV-CH25AR tip. This is a 750°F, 0.098" (2.5mm) chisel. Huge lug, huge cable, and not really the right tip for the size of the work.
Ya know what? No fuss, no bother; within a couple of seconds the solder was flowing and the job was done.

No wonder why I'm such a fan of this inexpensive little guy

[Everbrave]

The GT series is a bizarre move by Metcal. AFAIK it uses inductive heating, but doesn't work like the smartheat method where each tips temperature is set by its curie point (allowing the temperature setpoint to be varied without changing tips). I presume this means there is a temperature sensor somewhere, though it's not clear where it is.

You can watch the video, but GT gives you two options:
- curie point tips - $39/ea - GTC
- regular style tips with a heater + temp sensor cartridge - $10/ea - GT6

 
Performance of the regular tips is much worse.

Honestly, I would buy a PS-900 for half the price !

Yesterday I needed to attach a new cable to a new ground lug on my step daughters car. Not my usual kind of work, so I don't have a crimp tool for a lug that big.
Grabbed the PS-900 with an SFV-CH25AR tip. This is a 750°F, 0.098" (2.5mm) chisel. Huge lug, huge cable, and not really the right tip for the size of the work.
Ya know what? No fuss, no bother; within a couple of seconds the solder was flowing and the job was done.

No wonder why I'm such a fan of this inexpensive little guy

Tell me more; I’m on the edge 😉😀