JBC T210-A (and PA120-A) handpiece compared to some other tools

[jahonen]

Hello,

I have been looking for a small soldering iron for a precision work. I got a chance to try out JBC DD-2B station (the one with possibility to connect two tools) with T210-A handpiece with some tips and I was pretty much positively impressed (or should I say amazed!). It feels pretty much like a pen with some wire at the end Although the power is just 25 watts, it seems at least as usable as Weller WSP 80 (which has 80 watts heater) for most SMD soldering tasks I tried. Tight integration of the tip to heater works wonders. Here are some comparison pictures:







I was also amazed by the performance of JBC PA120-A precision tweezers. They are a proper size for something like 0603/0402 components (but seem to work for bigger components too by changing suitable cartridges, too) and very lightweight. Many other manufacturers seem to make those huge and clunky ones which are next to impossible to fit on a SMD component on the bottom of a narrow "canyon" without burning everything else next to it during soldering. Those tasks which were quite PITA before, were a breeze with PA120-A. Here is the scale for your reference:



My only complaint is really that JBC tools are somewhat obscure here in Finland, unlike Weller which you can buy from just about any grocery store Hope this small experience helps if somebody else is wondering about this.

Regards,
Janne

[poorchava]

JBC is a proffesional brand. We use those in my company. It's really confortable and doesn't make my hands tired. Very light and small pen. And tips with integrated heater which makes them heat up really fast. They are also long lived even considering 24/7 use.

But... Simple station costs ~$1.6k. By my standards not worth it for amateur/light proffesional use,.

[jahonen]

Well, it of course depends what you mean by "simple station". I think they are not so expensive if you look at the JBC price list (in euros):

http://www.jbctools.com/pdf/brochures/tarEng.pdf

Regards,
Janne

[robrenz]

I have the JBC CD-1BB compact station it was $390.00 US  http://www.janelonline.com/product-p/jbc-tools-cd-1bb.htm
It has the 245 handle which is still light as a large pen.  I is truly a dream to solder with. It has the same or better thermal response as a Metcal but totaly adjustable temperature.  Heatup time from cold is rediculously fast.  and tip change takes about 3 seconds and you never touch the tip. I personaly would not worry about a two output unit. there are plenty of very small tips for the 245 handle that will allow you to do the small work but then you can just stick a heavy tip in when necessary and have 130 watts of instantaneous power at your disposal.

Check out this video of mine using the very wide tip on the 245 handle.  The temperature setting on that tip is only 260 C to not shift the resistance of the resistors from overheating.  No other iron has the thermal response necessary to solder that much area that fast at so low of a temperature.

You will never be the same after JBC 

[poorchava]

Ya, but if you add all import duties, vat, reseller's share etc you get twice the price in US. While guys from western europe ("old" European Union) and scandinavian countries can still afford that, just qualifying as 'expensive', for us, living in poorer part of the EU these prices qualify as 'prohibitive' . I really look forward to a day when a cheapest chinese oscilloscope won't cost over 1/3 of my monthly net sallary :/

[zaoka]

I have AD4300 and AD2700, JBC is way ahead of all stations that I had chance to use.

[grenert]

If I didn't already have so much invested in Metcal tips, I would definitely be tempted by the JBC.

[digsys]

... Although the power is just 25 watts, it seems at least as usable as Weller WSP 80 (which has 80 watts heater)...

Don't compare the "wattage" with any other iron. JBCs have incredibly FAST power delivery, which really negates any comparison.
We have just about every model / station / tip including a few HDs, which are mind blowing fast. Even set at 380c 150W with a 22mm
tip, we solder wide copper earth straps to 5kgm transformers as fast as you can move them. Warm up time is 10 sec.
Switch to tweezers pencil and I'm pulling out 0805s from multilayer PCBs. Never looked back.

[jahonen]

... Although the power is just 25 watts, it seems at least as usable as Weller WSP 80 (which has 80 watts heater)...

Don't compare the "wattage" with any other iron. JBCs have incredibly FAST power delivery, which really negates any comparison.
We have just about every model / station / tip including a few HDs, which are mind blowing fast. Even set at 380c 150W with a 22mm
tip, we solder wide copper earth straps to 5kgm transformers as fast as you can move them. Warm up time is 10 sec.
Switch to tweezers pencil and I'm pulling out 0805s from multilayer PCBs. Never looked back.

I think this was the idea I tried to say, but you said it more clearly I wonder what is the typical power actually needed into a solder joint itself, it must be quite well below iron rating. A key thing is to couple the heat into the joint as efficiently as possible.

For my work, having a normal iron and tweezers is a must, since I often must lift and swap SMD components back and forth during prototype testing along with normal soldering tasks. Those PA120-A's had no problem with components attached to ground planes of a multilayer board, and I tried some very hefty PCB's (although not with particularly thick copper but thick enough to cause problems with wimpy soldering tools), too.

I think I have my mind "poisoned" already from that JBC experience

Regards,
Janne

[robrenz]

I think I have my mind "poisoned" already from that JBC experience

Regards,
Janne

Like I said,  You will never be the same after JBC   

[digsys]

... I wonder what is the typical power actually needed into a solder joint itself, it must be quite well below iron rating. A key thing is to couple the heat into the joint as efficiently as possible.

When I train people on new jobs, I set the temperature to JUST above melting point (~10o), make an estimate of
power required (60-150W, rarely ever needed 250W) and select an appropriate tip (awesome range). Then "tweak" the Temp
and Power for perfect CONSTANT delivery. I believe they use a high frequency energy transfer system that just doesn't quit.

[robrenz]

AFIK Metcal is high frequency induction principle and the curie effect.  JBC is just a resistive element but the element IS the thermcouple also.  That gives no Thermal lag in the temp sensing of control loop so they can hammer the thing without loosing control.

[digsys]

AFIK Metcal is high frequency induction principle and the curie effect.  JBC is just a resistive element but the element IS the thermcouple also.  That gives no Thermal lag in the temp sensing of control loop so they can hammer the thing without loosing control.

OK, my mistake, mixed up the details. From their specs -

We use one wire buried deep in the tip of the copper to “read & feed.”
Our thermocouple and heating element are one in the same and are microprocessor driven
over a sensor at 60 hertz (60x a second) utilizing up to 140 watt transformer

We also have a Metcal. The only tech that liked it, croaked and no-one else uses it.

[janelonline]

   We are an authorized distributor specializing in soldering products and materials.  We came across this blog and we thrilled that you all seem to like JBC Tools as much as we do.  We've been an authorized distributor for over 12 years - and in this time, we have not seen many soldering stations come close in comparison to JBC.

To address one concern mentioned: From our prices on-line one can easily see we do not pass duties and taxes on to import any JBC product from Spain.  And not to sell just ourselves on here - most distributors don't.  Prices of JBC Soldering stations are extremely fairly priced.

We also offer a 30 day demo trial with confidence that once you try a jbc soldering station you won't want to give it back!
For more information: http://www.janelonline.com/Articles.asp?ID=370

http://www.janelonline.com/jbc-tools-soldering-line-s/811.htm

Some other reasons we believe JBC is a strong station to buy: low temp soldering, read and feed, initial heat up, outstanding tip life, quick change over tips, great design, process control, intelligent heat management, easy calibration, and improved productivity.  with just 2 seconds to heat up and with jbc tools efficiently capable of soldering at 350 degrees C - why wouldn't someone what to use JBC?! 

[nanofrog]

FWIW, I own a Weller WMP iron and WD1 station, and it is smaller than the WP80. It works well enough, particularly for home use, but if I had to do it over again, I think I'd go for a JBC (Weller's QC lately seems to have diminished from what I was accustomed to <pre Cooper acquisition>).

[digsys]

FWIW, I own a Weller WMP iron and WD1 station, and it is smaller than the WP80. It works well enough, particularly for home use, but if I had to do it over again, I think I'd go for a JBC (Weller's QC lately seems to have diminished from what I was accustomed to <pre Cooper acquisition>).

We had a factory full of Wellers, but once manufacture was farmed out, the failure rate was SHOCKING. We still have a
few boxes full of dead bits !! Never again.

[nanofrog]

I've not heard great things lately. 

I figure I'll use mine till it dies or can no longer get tips (NT series, which aren't as common), and get a JBC to replace it, as just the WMP iron is more money than an entire Hakko FX-888 here in the US. 

I just hope I've a few years before this ends up being the case. 

[T4P]

There's a reason not to use JBC, it's too expensive for the average home engineer/hobbyist
Hakko's still being used for manufacturing so who's complaining? 

[saturation]

In past discussions on eevblog, Hakko soldering tools are typically 1.5-3x higher in the EU or UK, not including VAT and shipping.  Tools made in the EU or represented there, like Weller or JBC, are not as high.   The only tools priced nearer to USA are Chinese branded clones.  Whe've seen prices vary quite a bit, between USA and EU, so when price is considered, it can be more logical to get a low end JBC station than a Hakko FX888 based on price.

I like JBC as a company, its similar to Hakko, its small and not controlled by some giant parent corporation.  Their technology is also unique, basically the mass of their tips is so small, it can heat up very quickly using a heating element compared to induction heaters.  If I were to move up from my true Hakko 936, it would be JBC.

[T4P]

I understand your pain, it's not like the hakkos aren't very overpriced here ($240 ...)

and there's no way to find a JBC here as it seems plus wellers are overpriced and are not limited to being a POS nowadays

[JBC Tools]

Thank you everybody for your comments   , they help us to improve our products and our distribution network to satisfy your soldering needs.

Some of you highlighted the "precision" of our nanotweezers. We take this to inform you that we recently released the new adaptable sleeve for nanotweezers which allows the user to have greater control over the tool while soldering. (http://www.jbctools.com/the-new-adaptable-jbc-sleeve-improves-the-control-of-nanotweezers-news-43.html)

You can follow us on Facebook (JBC Soldering Tools) or Twitter (@JBCTools) for more news, thank you!

JBC

[JBC Tools]

My only complaint is really that JBC tools are somewhat obscure here in Finland

We encourage you to look at our website where you will find the distributors we have in each country http://www.jbctools.com/distributors.html

In Finland, you can contact:

OY NYLUND-GROUP AB
Masalantie 375
FI-02430 MASALA

Phone: 0358922191500
Fax: 0358922191555

Mail: Elisabet.Henriksson-Tekoniemi@nylund.fi

[JBC Tools]

there's no way to find a JBC here

In Singapore, you can contact:

OCHIP HUA EQUIP.& TOOLS PTE LTD
Blk 994, Bendemer Rd Kalland Basin Ind.estate 03-07
SG-339943 SINGAPORE

Phone: 006562983088
Fax: 006562970029
Mail: shuteng@chiphua.com.sg

[jahonen]

I recently also tried T210's bigger brother, T245 handpiece, with a beefier tip:



D2PAK soldered to a ground plane was too easy for that, so I digged out an old acid test, a 2 mm thick aluminium metal core PCB:



I immediately noticed that that thing solders to that MCPCB without any problem with standard temperature setting (350°C), whereas Weller WSP80 or Metcal SP200 doesn't even make a decent dent to the existing solder joints, even if you use as wide chisel tip as you can. Only if you crank Weller up to 450°C, then it does something..

T245 scales nicely from very small sized tip to huge 6.6 mm one:



T245 has about same size than Metcal SP200:



Regards,
Janne

[grenert]

The Metcal you tested is not really an apples to apples comparison.  The SP200 is a more light-duty iron (35W).  The MX-5000 is the main soldering iron in their lineup (80W).