Author Topic: Hakko FX-971, FX-972  (Read 6845 times)

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Offline Electro FanTopic starter

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Hakko FX-971, FX-972
« on: February 22, 2023, 10:12:40 pm »
looks like new soldering products and system
https://www.hakko.com/english/products/
 

Online thm_w

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Re: Hakko FX-971, FX-972
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2023, 01:08:16 am »
https://hakkousa.com/fx-971-soldering-station
https://www.tequipment.net/Hakko/FX-971/Soldering-Stations/

T39 tips 95W rated ($15-30 each), new handle with 13 pins on it. Still using 24V AC with resistive heater.

FX971 ($400):
- 100W
- single port

FX972:
- 200W
- dual port

FX-9706 Micro hot tweezers, looks exactly like the RF tweezers (FX1003), so they reused that design.

Looks quite decent. But nothing really special about it. Performance won't be at JBC or Metcal level. But cost is also lower.
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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Hakko FX-971, FX-972
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2023, 10:06:52 pm »
« Last Edit: April 29, 2023, 03:15:06 pm by Hydrawerk »
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Online thm_w

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Re: Hakko FX-971, FX-972
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2023, 11:49:45 pm »
What are the strange design decisions?
He said this was supposed to be released in 2020, doesn't really change my opinion.

Lots of basic but good improvements over their old stuff:
- JBC style tip removal cutout
- tip holder spots on the stand
- no cable needed for sleep detection
- IR remote cal

Although yeah nothing really new or innovative, more of a refresh, and clearly built down to a price (cheap LCD display).
It would be cool if they pushed their induction tech instead. But the BOM cost on that is going to be a lot higher.
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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Hakko FX-971, FX-972
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2023, 03:05:51 pm »
- no cable needed for sleep detection
Probably a smd accelerometer in the handle?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2023, 06:28:21 pm by Hydrawerk »
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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Hakko FX-971, FX-972
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2023, 06:46:42 pm »
In general the Hakko FX-971 looks OK, like a today's product. No overengineering like JBC and not a 80's military design like PACE ADS-200 (that I am OK with, but the seven segment three characters LED display looks so cheap and oldschool... )
Hakko LCD display is not an off-the-shelf product but it might easily survive 20 years or so...
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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Hakko FX-971, FX-972
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2023, 06:50:04 pm »
Temperature setting of Hakko FX-971 is difficult as expected.  :( The station can be tilted.
The station can go to sleep when the handle is placed in the stand but you have to wait at least 1 minute and the temperature must be at least 300°C.
There is no such limit at PACE ADS200 or many JBC stations. https://www.jbctools.com/pdf/manual-cdb-compact-station-0026943_ID-207205.pdf
« Last Edit: April 29, 2023, 06:58:27 pm by Hydrawerk »
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Online thm_w

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Re: Hakko FX-971, FX-972
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2023, 10:10:35 pm »
Temperature setting of Hakko FX-971 is difficult as expected.  :( The station can be tilted.
The station can go to sleep when the handle is placed in the stand but you have to wait at least 1 minute and the temperature must be at least 300°C.
There is no such limit at PACE ADS200 or many JBC stations. https://www.jbctools.com/pdf/manual-cdb-compact-station-0026943_ID-207205.pdf

Pace uses a switch and JBC uses electrical metal connection, so it makes sense why they have no need for temperature requirement.

Hakko must be using some combination of power consumption and accelerometer as you say. But its a really odd choice, why not use accelerometer for both cases (sleep and then wake).
Only possibility I can think of is if they are using one of those cheap motion detect springs the clone units use. But that would be hilarious...

https://www.addicore.com/SW-18020P-Standard-Sensitivity-Vibration-Sensor-p/ad167.htm

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Offline tooki

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Re: Hakko FX-971, FX-972
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2023, 01:31:27 pm »
Pace uses a switch and JBC uses electrical metal connection, so it makes sense why they have no need for temperature requirement.

Hakko must be using some combination of power consumption and accelerometer as you say. But its a really odd choice, why not use accelerometer for both cases (sleep and then wake).
Or just power consumption, like the Ersa i-Con nano and pico (but unlike all other i-Con models, which use an accelerometer instead) — though they don’t require a 300C minimum.
 

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Re: Hakko FX-971, FX-972
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2023, 09:01:55 pm »
Pace uses a switch and JBC uses electrical metal connection, so it makes sense why they have no need for temperature requirement.

Hakko must be using some combination of power consumption and accelerometer as you say. But its a really odd choice, why not use accelerometer for both cases (sleep and then wake).
Or just power consumption, like the Ersa i-Con nano and pico (but unlike all other i-Con models, which use an accelerometer instead) — though they don’t require a 300C minimum.

hmm wasn't thinking that was possible but maybe it is. When you pick the iron up, power won't change much, but then when you touch it to some solder or to a joint then it will wake right?

It will take longer to wake but I do like the simplicity of it if it can be done.
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Offline tooki

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Re: Hakko FX-971, FX-972
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2023, 02:42:36 pm »
Yep, that's exactly how it works! I have the i-Con nano at home, so I'm very familiar with it.

When it detects that power has been constant (and constantly relatively low) for the standby timer period, it drops down to the standby temperature and stays there until either the "shutdown" timer is reached (where it drops down to 50C) or is woken up.

From standby, when it's time to solder again, you either press any button, or touch the tip to something so that it detects a sudden temperature drop and goes "time to wake up!" Touching to solder isn't normally quite enough, since the 200C standby temp I have it set to (default is 250C*) is only just barely enough to melt leaded solder, and the contact area is so small, especially given the inevitable oxidation after sitting idle long enough to go into standby, that it might not conduct away enough heat. But by then you need to wipe anyway, so may as well use the brass wool or sponge. So I always just touch it to the brass wool.

It is actually sensitive enough that if you wave the 200C iron around in the air like an idiot at a high enough speed, it can cool enough to detect it. But since that's dangerous and slower than just touching it to the brass wool, you'd also have to be an idiot to do it that way! :)

From the 50C shutdown, only a button press can wake it.


The only real annoyance about this system is this: trying to wake it while it is transitioning to the standby temperature. Because it is expecting a rapid cooldown from the soldering temperature (for example, 330C) to the 200C standby, it won't respond to touching to the brass wool or solder because it thinks it's still just cooling off. This is super irritating if it happens literally a second or so before you want to solder a joint, because you start applying solder to re-tin the tip, and then it just keeps cooling... This is the sole reason I had to abandon setting the standby timer to just 1 minute: it would happen that, even with the iron in my hand, if I took too long prepping a solder joint, it would enter standby just between joints! So I raised it back to the 5 minute default and that's that.

So basically, you can't wake it by drawing heat away until it has first stabilized at 200C. (It will, of course, wake instantly by pressing a button during cooldown.) I do wonder if this could be improved in firmware, so that during cooldown to standby, it can detect a sharp change in the rate of change of the tip temperature! :P


I use the i-Con 2V at work, which has the handpiece with the accelerometer in it, and honestly, both systems work really well. The difference in how soon you're ready to solder again is absolutely minimal. (In fact, in one way the accelerometer-based wake is worse, in that just accidentally bumping the iron in the stand will wake it, even if I don't actually intend to use it. The accelerometer does prevent entering standby by mistake, of course.)



*Maybe it's more responsive with a 250C standby, but that's so close to leaded soldering temps that I thought it'd make more sense to lower it. I set it so long ago that I don't remember.
 
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Offline Shock

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Re: Hakko FX-971, FX-972
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2023, 05:18:45 pm »
Can't understand why they still insist on making the temp so hard to manually set. Plus side is no more tip sleeve nonsense. Performance looks slightly improved, but 10 seconds from cold wasn't amazing. Yet again, no tweezer support on the single channel model. Appears to say turn off before swapping handpieces in the manual, unsure about quick swapping tips. Software seems pointless bloat.
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Offline IanB

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Re: Hakko FX-971, FX-972
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2023, 05:32:21 pm »
Can't understand why they still insist on making the temp so hard to manually set.

I think they don't want people to change the temperature. My feeling is that they are targeting assembly lines where the process requires a pre-set temperature that never changes. They are not (apparently) targeting the non-industrial user or prototyping engineer.

For me this is odd, because assembly lines would presumably be using higher end equipment, rather than a low end solder station?

I'm really glad I have solder stations with a mechanical dial for temperature control.
 

Online coppice

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Re: Hakko FX-971, FX-972
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2023, 05:47:09 pm »
A 40 minute video and while he mentioned the nitrogen irons a few times he didn't show one off. I'd be interested to see if they've done anything interesting to better integrate the nitrogen feed.
 

Online coppice

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Re: Hakko FX-971, FX-972
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2023, 05:51:44 pm »
I think they don't want people to change the temperature.
A lot of production line people demand some form of locking to prevent their assembly workers for changing an iron's temperature. Some of the Hakko stations require the insertion of a kind of key to allow the temperature to be changed. However, making the adjustment clumsy for people who are supposed to be able to change the temperature is poor design.
 

Offline IanB

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Re: Hakko FX-971, FX-972
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2023, 06:25:14 pm »
A lot of production line people demand some form of locking to prevent their assembly workers for changing an iron's temperature. Some of the Hakko stations require the insertion of a kind of key to allow the temperature to be changed. However, making the adjustment clumsy for people who are supposed to be able to change the temperature is poor design.

My point is that I don't think Hakko even has an offering for people who are supposed to be able to change the temperature. Even the low end FX888D makes it hard to adjust the temperature. They should target a particular user profile: (a) production line or (b) engineer. Which Hakko stations are designed for engineers?
 

Online thm_w

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Re: Hakko FX-971, FX-972
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2023, 09:39:15 pm »
For me this is odd, because assembly lines would presumably be using higher end equipment, rather than a low end solder station?

A $400 soldering station is not "low end" if thats what you meant. Its about what I'd expect to pay for a good production line station.

But yeah, why they took this production mentality and applied it to their other stations (FX888D) which are clearly for hobby use, I have no idea. They seem to like visual simplicity but not functional simplicity. They are also not very open to criticism or suggestions for their products (I've tried).

Wouldn't be surprised if its the same old Japanese guy making the final call on these things.
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Offline labjr

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Re: Hakko FX-971, FX-972
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2023, 02:07:29 pm »
Nothing really new or innovative. I've started using Metcal and love the RF inductive heating. I hope Hakko doesn't discontinue their RF induction station and accessories because their handpiece and tips are compatible with my Metcal station and cost less.
 

Offline KG7AMV

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Re: Hakko FX-971, FX-972
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2023, 12:46:44 pm »
Cannot wait to tear one down and see how much of the old design they are using as they did with their other units.

Offline jonpaul

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Re: Hakko FX-971, FX-972
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2023, 01:55:18 pm »
Bonjour, just see this now:

In 1990s, We consulted at Raychem, and designed the Metcal SP-200 high freq smartheat soldering iron. Resonant mode 500 kHz.

Mfg  100s of thousands,  co branded by OK Industries, and Thermaltronics, I still have several stations, handles, tips.

For Hakko, we have the  926, 936,

These are traditional  control, made in Japan (NOT china!) style, NON digital, NON micro controleld and many original Halkko tips.

One knob temp andj can be calibrated,

These are reliable workhorses.

hope this is interesting.

Just my experience,

Jon
Jean-Paul  the Internet Dinosaur
 


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