Dissolving soldering tips by Weller?

[John Coloccia]

I have been looking at this one for $139.80.  I don't know how good they are versus some of the name brand stuff but for the features and accessories the price point seems very attractive.

I wouldn't touch it.  Get a real Hakko, and if you absolutely need hot air then buy a cheap hot air station used from e-bay.  Solder stations are something you don't want to go cheap on.  The difference in performance between a crap station and a quality station is far more than the difference in price.  There's no way I'd spend $140 on junk when I can spend less than that on a quality product.

[liquibyte]

I don't do pro work and looking at...

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/x-tronic-4040-hot-air-rework-station-review/
http://www.kerrywong.com/2011/12/05/x-tronic-4040-hot-air-reworksoldering-station/
http://www.kerrywong.com/2011/12/07/x-tronic-4040-hot-air-reworksoldering-station-ii/

...makes it seem like it's not a bad deal for what you get.  I've looked at Hakko and they are proud of their products price wise.  There's no way in hell I'd ever pay $5-600 for a soldering station, just not going to happen, I'd rather invent my own first.  Reading the thread here about it, there was an alternative suggested on page 1 but overall reviews suggest it's not a bad deal and performs adequately.  I'd like the station for the added hot air but it's not a requirement.  All I really need is a decent iron with tips that don't dissolve with even light use.  I figure if I'm going to invest money, I might as well get some added features.

[John Coloccia]

I've looked at Hakko and they are proud of their products price wise.  There's no way in hell I'd ever pay $5-600 for a soldering station, just not going to happen, I'd rather invent my own first.

You've never heard of the 936?  Of the FX-888....of FX-888D?  You can get the 888D from reputable suppliers like Q Source (i.e., it won't be a fake clone) for $90.  I would take one of those over a sea of crap solder stations any day of the week.

[deth502]

heres my question. i have the same weller at home, and one at work. the tips do not last long. they dont deteriorate nearly as fast as the ones youve shown, but none the less, they only last a few months. ive made replacments out of copper before, which only seem to last half as long (i do dress and file and re-tin the tips on a regular basis) after reading this thread the other day, i saw talk of stainless steel tips. i turned one on the lathe today, put it in the iron, and afer 5 min it still wouldnt melt solder. i waited abotu 10 min and it was melting solder easily..... at the base of the tip, but still cold out to the very tip (the working area you need to be hot)

so, copper = sucks = disolves in lead.
stainless = sucks = dosent transfer heat.

what is the best material type to use?

Get a brand of station, like Hakko, that doesn't make crap tips, and stop worrying about it.  To make tips properly, you need to be able to do plating.  By the time you've spent time and money making tips and plating them properly, you could have just bought a decent used station.

who said i cant do plating?

like ive said, ive made them out of copper before and gotten as good performance as the not so spectacular weller tips with nothing more than tinning compound on them. if theres nothing better than the copper, which everyone was saying is not good because it dissolves in lead, then ill just continue on making replacements out of copper. with all this talk of tips lasting forever, i thought there might be a better alternative.

what is a tip typically plated with? nickel? if so, i can try that too.

[mamalala]

what is a tip typically plated with? nickel? if so, i can try that too.

Usually iron. Some, like Hakko, then add an extra chromium plating over the iron plating.

Finally it is then tinned.

Greetings,

Chris

Edit: The extra layers are not at the business end of the tip, there only iron is the last layer (plus tinning). See for example:

http://web.vtc.edu/ELM/projects/2005-2006/LEDSolderingSystem/comunication/Electronics%20Tips%20Soldering%20Techniques_files/sdr_fig2.gif

Or Google for images for "solder tip plating"

[nanofrog]

I have been looking at this one for $139.80.  I don't know how good they are versus some of the name brand stuff but for the features and accessories the price point seems very attractive.

Skip it. Get a good, top quality iron, and an inexpensive hot air station (or better yet IMHO, a good quality used one).

Also, separates will allow you to use one to fix the other when it breaks. Particularly useful if you go Chinese.   

All I really need is a decent iron with tips that don't dissolve with even light use.  I figure if I'm going to invest money, I might as well get some added features.

If you look between the least expensive and most expensive units from name brand companies, even for just soldering stations, you'll see there are differences. Including additional features.

Look for things like better stands (setback feature when the iron is placed in is the biggest, but may also contain upgrades such as a tip cubby and multiple cleaning options), better heating technology (i.e. cartridges vs. simple tips butted to/slid over a heating element permanently fixed in the handle), ... types of things that improve it's performance, make it cheaper to operate (setback will extend tip life for example), and is much easier, comfortable, and faster for the user to perform joints (and time translates into $$$ for a business).

So in the case of Hakko, you can go with the inexpensive FX-888D, or step up to say the FX-951. Both make proper joints, but the latter will have features and better ease of use than the cheaper model. And in the case of these two stations, the costs are quite reasonable for NEW here in the US (under $100 for an FX-888D, ~$267 for a new FX-951). Tips are cheap too at ~$5 per for the FX-888D, and ~$10 for common profile cartridges for the FX-951 (most common profile cartridge types tend to be closer to ~$30 per, such as those from both Weller and JBC for example).

Buy from authorized retailers to avoid fakes IMHO (possible to find legitimate products elsewhere, but it's always a risk).

Also avoid poor quality 3rd party tips (authorized retailer aspect is crucial here due to the fake tips floating around). They will reduce an iron's performance (poor fit = poor thermal transfer), nor are they cost effective due to more frequent replacement (thin plating = wear out faster).

what is a tip typically plated with? nickel? if so, i can try that too.

Tip construction is typically done as follows:
1. Make the tip out of copper.
2. Plate entire bit with iron (~135 - 150 um)
3. Plate any surface you don't want wetted with solder with nickel.
4. Repeat #3 using chromium.

Keep in mind, that molten tin will rapidly dissolve most metals, including copper.  So a protective layer must be applied that won’t dissolve so rapidly in tin, and iron is one of the few metals that can actually withstand tin for any reasonable amount of time (and is also cost effective).

[saturation]

If any connection exists, even microscopic, from the outside of the tip to the copper core, the tip will be rapidly destroyed by lead-free solder, and less rapidly by leaded solder; this typically shows as a pit that becomes a crevice as shown in the pics in this thread.   

This connect can come from many sources: inferior alloy, plating defect, a deep scratch, or a fracture of the plating when putting hot tips on a cold sponge. 

True Hakko tips had a patented metal alloy which resists wear even from lead free.  You can find links to those discussions in the archives including the patent documents themselves and the type of alloy used.

In the USA,  a Hakko FX888 or similar is a best bang for buck in soldering stations.  While many good one's exist in the same price range, a problem with other brands is quality control, since so many outsource manufacturing, the brands that were reputable in the past may not be so today.  Weller's are a perfect example, even if you get a good station today, you can't be sure the same model will continue to be good to recommend it to others, nor will tips will be as good, or continue to be good into the future as you expect when you first bought it.  Many makers will cut a lot of corners on the low end stations of their line, such as these.

While the FX888 are made in Malaysia all other products are made in Japan, including the tips.  To date, Hakko remains consistent in quality even with the Malaysian outsourcing [ although there are scattered reports of 888 station failures on this forum, something that was never reported for its predecessor, the 936].

One option you have is to use authentic Plato brand substitute iron tips for your station,  but they are not cheap, for Hakko FX888, a Plato tip cost as much as a similar tip shape original Hakko.

http://www.techspray.com/d-7-plato.aspx

[amyk]

So I followed the advice given in the thread, and read the links. Took my time to properly tin the tip and get a nice coating, but with no avail. It lasted about 10 components more, after an hour of use it looks like this:

That is truly an epic fail.

So if you can afford it (and don't mind digital control vs. a knob), get a Hakko, otherwise any of the 936 clones will do - parts are cheap and tips are plentiful (and don't dissolve either), lots of "aftermarket mods" and custom controllers available too. Others have reported good use with 936-style clone stations and tips here, no cases of tips completely melting away (yet).

[TheAmmoniacal]

Do you think it's worth it to go with a "no-name" station like the Aoyue 906 pictured below? I've seen the exact station somewhere else but rebranded Hakko.

[miguelvp]

Do you think it's worth it to go with a "no-name" station like the Aoyue 906 pictured below? I've seen the exact station somewhere else but rebranded Hakko.

[amyk]

Lots of others with rapidly wearing Weller tips...
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1033111
http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?346723-What-is-causing-these-holes-in-my-Weller-soldering-tips

That 908 is a combo hot air + soldering iron, looks like an old model but should probably be Hakko-compatible.

For $15, that Yihua Dave reviewed might be good value... and you can "upgrade" it with genuine Hakko tips. On that thought, are these genuine Weller tips or fake Chinese clones? (Come to think of it, are there even clone tips for Weller irons? Maybe the Chinese didn't bother to clone Weller because the Hakkos were just better. )

[TheAmmoniacal]

On that thought, are these genuine Weller tips or fake Chinese clones? (Come to think of it, are there even clone tips for Weller irons? Maybe the Chinese didn't bother to clone Weller because the Hakkos were just better. )

These are original tips made in Germany. Wasn't able to find clones or other no-name compatible tips.

[TheAmmoniacal]

Do you think it's worth it to go with a "no-name" station like the Aoyue 906 pictured below? I've seen the exact station somewhere else but rebranded Hakko.

Elaborate?

[nanofrog]

Come to think of it, are there even clone tips for Weller irons?

Actually, there are fake Weller tips out there (example). 

Well respected 3rd party alternatives also, such as those from (Plato or Zephyrtronics for example.

[miguelvp]

Do you think it's worth it to go with a "no-name" station like the Aoyue 906 pictured below? I've seen the exact station somewhere else but rebranded Hakko.

Elaborate?

Well, I thought you were trying to be funny saying that you saw a clone rebranded Hakko, and by rebranded it usually means the company in question (Hakko) will sell it as it's own.

Like Agilent selling rebranded Rigol scopes.

[TheAmmoniacal]

Do you think it's worth it to go with a "no-name" station like the Aoyue 906 pictured below? I've seen the exact station somewhere else but rebranded Hakko.

Elaborate?

Well, I thought you were trying to be funny saying that you saw a clone rebranded Hakko, and by rebranded it usually means the company in question (Hakko) will sell it as it's own.

Like Agilent selling rebranded Rigol scopes.

The two stations pictured below are identical, one is Aoyue and when is Hakko. So the question is, is the Aoyue a clone? Is Aoyue the manufacturer and Hakko just resell them with their name? Are they manufactured without a name? Or is the Hakko branding on it fake?

[miguelvp]

Aouye, Tenma, etc are clones not rebadges

Hakko is the manufacturer but they no longer make this particular station. The controller boards inside the clones are horrid, power supply ground not crimped, but soldered or not connected to the transformer body. So far all the clones seem to have the soldering iron tip grounded and they do the job. But they are definitely not Hakko or even close to the real thing.

More info here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-596-world's-cheapest-soldering-station-yihua-936/

[IanB]

The two stations pictured below are identical look similar, one is Aoyue and one is Hakko. So the question is, is the Aoyue a clone? Is Aoyue the manufacturer and Hakko just resell them with their name? Are they manufactured without a name? Or is the Hakko branding on it fake?

Hakko is the original manufacturer of the Hakko station. It is originally designed by Hakko, and both the design and the manufacture are to a very high standard.

The Aoyue is a copy. It contains none of the design elements or quality of manufacture of the Hakko station, but it may give satisfactory service as long as you don't expect it to have the same durability or performance as the Hakko.