Author Topic: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?  (Read 272390 times)

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Offline c099

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #575 on: September 13, 2022, 02:15:16 pm »
Just got my t3a. Any tips on using it safely?
 

Offline dreamcat4

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #576 on: September 13, 2022, 03:19:34 pm »
was just about to place my order at mouser to get the needed tvs diodes... but then there was a hold up. after remembering those capacitors for psu. however mouser doesnt have the last 2 of those caps. Went back to the parametric search to find alternatives with similar specs....

3rd in list:

PART: 1189-3155-ND
PART: 1189-1890-ND
MFG : RUBYCON / 35ZLH470MEFC10X16
DESC: CAP ALUM 470UF 20% 35V RADIAL COO : INDONESIA


Yields 3 results on mouser (1st 2 of those 3 results are the same cap, just different packaging):

https://www.mouser.co.uk/c/passive-components/capacitors/aluminum-electrolytic-capacitors/aluminum-electrolytic-capacitors-radial-leaded/?capacitance=470%20uF&diameter=10%20mm&esr=28%20mOhms~~30%20mOhms&lead%20spacing=5%20mm&life=10000%20Hour~~12000%20Hour&maximum%20operating%20temperature=%2B%20105%20C~~%2B%20135%20C&ripple%20current=2%20A~~2.5%20A&voltage%20rating%20dc=35%20VDC~~250%20VDC&instock=y&sort=pricing&rp=passive-components%2Fcapacitors%2Faluminum-electrolytic-capacitors%2Faluminum-electrolytic-capacitors-radial-leaded%7C~Voltage%20Rating%20DC%7C~Maximum%20Operating%20Temperature%7C~Life%7C~Ripple%20Current%7C~ESR

4th in list:

PART: 1189-50YXM10MEFRTA5X11CT-ND
MFG : RUBYCON (VA) / 50YXM10MEFRTA5X11
DESC: CAP ALUM 10UF 20% 50V RADIAL COO : JAPAN



Yields 5 alternatives on mouser:

https://www.mouser.co.uk/c/passive-components/capacitors/aluminum-electrolytic-capacitors/aluminum-electrolytic-capacitors-radial-leaded/?capacitance=10%20uF&lead%20spacing=2%20mm&life=10000%20Hour~~15000%20Hour%7C~20000%20Hour&maximum%20operating%20temperature=%2B%20105%20C%7C~%2B%20125%20C~~%2B%20135%20C%7C~%2B%20150%20C&ripple%20current=90%20mA~~210%20mA&voltage%20rating%20dc=50%20VDC~~63%20VDC%7C~80%20VDC~~100%20VDC%7C~160%20VDC%7C~200%20VDC%7C~250%20VDC%7C~315%20VDC%7C~350%20VDC%7C~400%20VDC~~500%20VDC&rp=passive-components%2Fcapacitors%2Faluminum-electrolytic-capacitors%2Faluminum-electrolytic-capacitors-radial-leaded%7C~Voltage%20Rating%20DC%7C~Maximum%20Operating%20Temperature%7C~Life%7C~Ripple%20Current&sort=pricing

So if anybody knows which of is best matching alternative? Otherwise if it doesn't matter and should just order the cheapest of each?

Then can place my order. Since all else is ordered for mods now  :-+
 

Offline c0d3z3r0

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #577 on: September 13, 2022, 11:27:33 pm »
aaaaaand another stand mod

ooh, heh, I need to clean that tip I used to melt the nuts in lol
« Last Edit: September 13, 2022, 11:31:21 pm by c0d3z3r0 »
AiXun T3A reverse engineering: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
AiXun T3x F(L)OSS update tool: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
 
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Offline dreamcat4

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #578 on: September 14, 2022, 07:35:49 am »
thank you very good!

just a reminder that it is necessary to be a bit careful not to mess up those black plastic rings, which are sitting in the countersunk bottom row of holes. Because we have seen that cause issues in the past.


the issue i am referring to was:

if the black plastic rings on the cartridge are messed up or if they are dimensionally out of spec, (on some fake clone tips). then it may create issues for inserting the cartridge into the handle, to get it properly seated. either the cartridge does not go in far enough. or it goes in too far. which of course can often have some variety of negative consequences

perhaps you are already ok there with your mod, so long as there are no sharp edges to cut into the plastic over time (many uses). if those hand drilled holes were all deburred properly. i just cannot see easily that levels of detail from your photo here. There may also be other good ways to protect them. For example to give a softer cushion. like cover in a layer of a silicone that sets (plugging the holes). or adding little plastic washers. or other ways. Such that the weight of the cartridge is resting only on a metal sections (and not plastic sections)

 :-//
 

Offline c0d3z3r0

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #579 on: September 14, 2022, 09:10:12 am »
thank you very good!

just a reminder that it is necessary to be a bit careful not to mess up those black plastic rings, which are sitting in the countersunk bottom row of holes. Because we have seen that cause issues in the past.


the issue i am referring to was:

if the black plastic rings on the cartridge are messed up or if they are dimensionally out of spec, (on some fake clone tips). then it may create issues for inserting the cartridge into the handle, to get it properly seated. either the cartridge does not go in far enough. or it goes in too far. which of course can often have some variety of negative consequences

perhaps you are already ok there with your mod, so long as there are no sharp edges to cut into the plastic over time (many uses). if those hand drilled holes were all deburred properly. i just cannot see easily that levels of detail from your photo here. There may also be other good ways to protect them. For example to give a softer cushion. like cover in a layer of a silicone that sets (plugging the holes). or adding little plastic washers. or other ways. Such that the weight of the cartridge is resting only on a metal sections (and not plastic sections)

 :-//

Yeah, I have seen some of these reportings :S  I've chamfered the holes, so the tips center themselves and easily slip through the holes, at least when you let them fall more or less straightly. Also I took care to not have any sharp edges. We'll see how it goes :-)

Another approach could have been using pipes and sealing them with a plug (or epoxy \o/) on the lower end. That would have been more effort, though, without having a circular or band saw at hand.

Fun fact: even the original tips are not all exactly the same regarding sizes and quality of the plastic rings... :S And yes, I have bought them from an authorized distributor.
AiXun T3A reverse engineering: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
AiXun T3x F(L)OSS update tool: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
 

Offline c0d3z3r0

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #580 on: September 15, 2022, 05:12:53 pm »
Today I discovered something really weird..... When touching the connectors shield with the handle´s top, the tip starts buzzing!

So, I started to measure...

Voltage between connector shield and gnd/earth: 0V
Voltage between tip ground / handle top metal and connector shield: up to 0.9 V when heating!
Voltage between tip ground / handle top metal and earth: up to 0.9 V when heating!
Short circuit current tip ground / handle top metal and connector shield: ~ 430 - 450 mA when heating!
Short circuit current tip ground / handle top metal and earth: ~ 430 - 450 mA when heating!
Resistance between connector shield and gnd/earth: 0 \$\Omega\$
Resistance between tip ground / handle top metal and connector shield (IOW resistance of cable + connector on both sides + shielding): 0  \$\Omega\$, Huh?!

Note: ~0.1-0.2  \$\Omega\$ in the picture is caused by the measuring tips

WHAT!? How's that possible? The tip GND / handle top metal is connected to GND/earth and it doesn't make any sense to me that there would be any potential :o

What am I missing?  :-//
« Last Edit: September 15, 2022, 05:15:58 pm by c0d3z3r0 »
AiXun T3A reverse engineering: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
AiXun T3x F(L)OSS update tool: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
 

Offline dreamcat4

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #581 on: September 15, 2022, 08:39:42 pm »
Voltage between connector shield and gnd/earth: 0V
Voltage between tip ground / handle top metal and connector shield: up to 0.9 V when heating!
Voltage between tip ground / handle top metal and earth: up to 0.9 V when heating!
Short circuit current tip ground / handle top metal and connector shield: ~ 430 - 450 mA when heating!
Short circuit current tip ground / handle top metal and earth: ~ 430 - 450 mA when heating!
Resistance between connector shield and gnd/earth: 0 \$\Omega\$
Resistance between tip ground / handle top metal and connector shield (IOW resistance of cable + connector on both sides + shielding): 0  \$\Omega\$, Huh?!

Note: ~0.1-0.2  \$\Omega\$ in the picture is caused by the measuring tips

WHAT!? How's that possible? The tip GND / handle top metal is connected to GND/earth and it doesn't make any sense to me that there would be any potential :o

What am I missing?  :-//

well i just took some passive measurements on my handle. And also looked at the PCB seperately and the markings on it.


Then finally i poked a feeler wire (a very long and thin precision screwdriver) down into the hole. Where the cartridge goes....


What seems to be (according to my preliminary findings, take with a pinch of salt).... is that the metal RING (around the end of the handle, that the cartridge sits in). This is not actually connected to GND at all.

That METAL RING has 2.3Mohm (yes mega ohms) to pin 3, which is marked "ID" (perhaps this means idle detect? IDK).

And it has about 6.4Mohm (again mega ohms). To pin 1 on the GX12-5 connector. Which is marked as "S" on the front panel pcb. Again I simply don't know / am not entirely sure what that is supposed to be for. Because I have not looked into that yet.

Anyhow getting back to the point...

Only when you physically insert a C245 cartridge into the handle, does it actually physically connect the METAL RING (on the outside)... to bridge to the pin 4 GND on the GX12-5 connector.

And this bridging is part way down the length of the solder tip. So... you might be seeing the effects of the "2.9 ohms" being split part way down. With some low voltage potential. Because you are in effect measuring onto the cartridge itself. There was a cut away / cut through photo of a cartridge somewhere else on this forum. And it showed the internal geometry of the tip, and the amount of the thickness of the metal coming into the end of the tip, and returning back. And where the thermocouple was etc.

Effectively you have something which is not exactly a 0 ohms metal. It's designed to be converting the current to heat. So it seems reasonable to expect a non-zero potential at some places on that structure... sorry I cannot help further.

Over here I am still trying to figure out how to do this wiring, and completely forgot to order some 6 cores (multi core) silicone cable. That will delay me some weeks now dammnit.... Knew I forgot to order something.

 :palm: :palm:  :palm:
 

Offline c0d3z3r0

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #582 on: September 15, 2022, 10:17:50 pm »
Voltage between connector shield and gnd/earth: 0V
Voltage between tip ground / handle top metal and connector shield: up to 0.9 V when heating!
Voltage between tip ground / handle top metal and earth: up to 0.9 V when heating!
Short circuit current tip ground / handle top metal and connector shield: ~ 430 - 450 mA when heating!
Short circuit current tip ground / handle top metal and earth: ~ 430 - 450 mA when heating!
Resistance between connector shield and gnd/earth: 0 \$\Omega\$
Resistance between tip ground / handle top metal and connector shield (IOW resistance of cable + connector on both sides + shielding): 0  \$\Omega\$, Huh?!

Note: ~0.1-0.2  \$\Omega\$ in the picture is caused by the measuring tips

WHAT!? How's that possible? The tip GND / handle top metal is connected to GND/earth and it doesn't make any sense to me that there would be any potential :o

What am I missing?  :-//

well i just took some passive measurements on my handle. And also looked at the PCB seperately and the markings on it.


Then finally i poked a feeler wire (a very long and thin precision screwdriver) down into the hole. Where the cartridge goes....


What seems to be (according to my preliminary findings, take with a pinch of salt).... is that the metal RING (around the end of the handle, that the cartridge sits in). This is not actually connected to GND at all.

Erm, yeah, with "handle top metal" I actually meant this metal ring. It is connected to GND, but only when a tip is inserted. :D

That METAL RING has 2.3Mohm (yes mega ohms) to pin 3, which is marked "ID" (perhaps this means idle detect? IDK).

Weird... well ID really means ID. It is used to detect which handle is inserted by a) pulling low (T245) or b) pulling high c) resistor for the other two types (T12, and... the other one). And naaaaaah.... the 2.3Mohm is what you measure through the MC ;)

And it has about 6.4Mohm (again mega ohms). To pin 1 on the GX12-5 connector. Which is marked as "S" on the front panel pcb. Again I simply don't know / am not entirely sure what that is supposed to be for. Because I have not looked into that yet.

"S" is the shake sensor pin for T12 handles. And same here, 6.4Mohm is the MC resistance. Try to measure "S" to earth/GND. Should be the same value.

Anyhow getting back to the point...

Only when you physically insert a C245 cartridge into the handle, does it actually physically connect the METAL RING (on the outside)... to bridge to the pin 4 GND on the GX12-5 connector.

And this bridging is part way down the length of the solder tip. So... you might be seeing the effects of the "2.9 ohms" being split part way down. With some low voltage potential. Because you are in effect measuring onto the cartridge itself. There was a cut away / cut through photo of a cartridge somewhere else on this forum. And it showed the internal geometry of the tip, and the amount of the thickness of the metal coming into the end of the tip, and returning back. And where the thermocouple was etc.

Effectively you have something which is not exactly a 0 ohms metal. It's designed to be converting the current to heat. So it seems reasonable to expect a non-zero potential at some places on that structure... sorry I cannot help further.

Uhm, well. The "something [...] converting current to heat" is the heater wire, which ofc has some resistance. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/jbc-soldering-station-cd-2bc-complete-schematic-analysis/?action=dlattach;attach=946118

The outer metal is definitely 0 Ohms

Also take a look a my measurements again. It is 0 Ohms from that metal ring to GND, and that's why I'm so confused....

Over here I am still trying to figure out how to do this wiring, and completely forgot to order some 6 cores (multi core) silicone cable. That will delay me some weeks now dammnit.... Knew I forgot to order something.

 :palm: :palm:  :palm:

:(
AiXun T3A reverse engineering: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
AiXun T3x F(L)OSS update tool: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
 

Offline dreamcat4

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #583 on: September 15, 2022, 11:24:04 pm »
ah ok... but what is 'MC resistance' mean? sorry i do not know the meaning
 

Offline c0d3z3r0

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #584 on: September 16, 2022, 07:51:08 am »
ah ok... but what is 'MC resistance' mean? sorry i do not know the meaning

Oops, I wanted to say MCU.

So, you had measured that with the handle attached, right?
AiXun T3A reverse engineering: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
AiXun T3x F(L)OSS update tool: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
 

Offline dreamcat4

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #585 on: September 16, 2022, 08:31:42 am »
ah ok... but what is 'MC resistance' mean? sorry i do not know the meaning

Oops, I wanted to say MCU.

So, you had measured that with the handle attached, right?

no  :-//


Sorry for the confusion. What I measured (the several mega ohms) was on the handle only by itself. Fully unplugged, nothing else at all, not the cartridge, and not base station / controller pcb.

Understandable because I was referencing those symbols written on PCB silkscreen around where the GX12-5 connector is soldered. I just meant those are the corresponding pins that the handle would then connect to when is later plugged in. But the handle was unplugged fully from everything when i took those measurements.

I remember there was somebody out there who managed to disassemble one of these chinese T245 handles i just have not had time to watch this video...

[edit] however this is not the aixun handle. it is a different model chinese clone station / handle might be slightly different here... But at least it shows for how to open the handle without incurring so much damages.

« Last Edit: September 16, 2022, 08:34:23 am by dreamcat4 »
 

Offline c0d3z3r0

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #586 on: September 16, 2022, 04:15:55 pm »
ah ok... but what is 'MC resistance' mean? sorry i do not know the meaning

Oops, I wanted to say MCU.

So, you had measured that with the handle attached, right?

no  :-//


Sorry for the confusion. What I measured (the several mega ohms) was on the handle only by itself. Fully unplugged, nothing else at all, not the cartridge, and not base station / controller pcb.

Understandable because I was referencing those symbols written on PCB silkscreen around where the GX12-5 connector is soldered. I just meant those are the corresponding pins that the handle would then connect to when is later plugged in. But the handle was unplugged fully from everything when i took those measurements.

I remember there was somebody out there who managed to disassemble one of these chinese T245 handles i just have not had time to watch this video...

[edit] however this is not the aixun handle. it is a different model chinese clone station / handle might be slightly different here... But at least it shows for how to open the handle without incurring so much damages.



Oh, oops. Then these resistances don't make any sense. Also, I cannot reproduce that here.

I had opened the handle and it's connected this way:

GX12-5 pin                              handle / tip
5 +            ---------------- heater (middle)

4 GND        ------+--------  GND (top metal)
                          |
3 ID           ------+
 
2 T(EMP)    ----------------  temp (lower spike)

1 S(HAKE)  -----x
« Last Edit: September 16, 2022, 07:39:29 pm by c0d3z3r0 »
AiXun T3A reverse engineering: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
AiXun T3x F(L)OSS update tool: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
 

Offline dreamcat4

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #587 on: September 16, 2022, 05:20:50 pm »
so sorry for my late reply

Because earlier today found out just how super easy it is to unscrew the GX12-5 aviation connector on the handle. To peek the exposed wiring there. (rather than fully try to fully dismantle the more difficult plastics of the handle itself)... Was going to upload some photos later with annotated text to better illustrate. But you beat me to it!  And thanks so much for including your wiring diagram ^^ in last post above here.

What happened? Well I just got distracted trying (utterly failing) to find missing specs on aliexpress. For to order most appropriate 6-core multicore silicone cable. To make for the new (to be added) extension lead. To daisy chain between base station and stand. 6th extra core to carry the stand idle detection wire.

Just aliexpress sellers, they hate to give out the full specs. No outer diameter measurement, is missing from all listings, every page!!! The total diameter needs to be approx 5.8mm (or close enough). To fit these GX12 size of connector. More or less, because the soft silicone is pretty stretchy / squishy.


Anyhow will post my photos later this evening regardless. For the aixun t245 handle wiring photos.
 

Offline dreamcat4

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #588 on: September 16, 2022, 06:45:06 pm »
Oh, oops. Then these resistances don't make any sense. Also, I cannot reproduce that here.

I had opened the handle and it's connected this way:

GX12-5 pin                              handle / tip
1 +            ---------------- heater (middle)

2 GND        ------+--------  GND (top metal)
                          |
3 ID           ------+
 
4 T(EMP)    ----------------  temp (lower spike)

5 S(HAKE)  -----x

Yeah sorry I can go back and check my answer for the mega-ohms reading. Might just have been my multimeter just playing up or something. Giving incorrect false reading. Anyhow:

If you check my photos here (attached below). I think we have the same answer. Just you have mis-labelled the pin numbers. Because have flipped the connector by mistake. If you go back and re-check (again) the pin numbering written on the end of the connector. Will make sense to edit your post, and just re-number them.

Then is all exactly the same answer. Many thanks :-+
 
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Offline c0d3z3r0

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #589 on: September 16, 2022, 07:40:08 pm »
If you check my photos here (attached below). I think we have the same answer. Just you have mis-labelled the pin numbers. Because have flipped the connector by mistake.

Good catch, thanks!
AiXun T3A reverse engineering: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
AiXun T3x F(L)OSS update tool: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
 

Offline c0d3z3r0

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #590 on: September 16, 2022, 08:53:35 pm »
@dreamcat4 so, do you have that weird noise, too, when touching the connector with the handle metal ring?

Oh, btw. the frequency is the same as the one coming from either the coil or this green cap here...... o.O it's always singing when heating *sigh*

AiXun T3A reverse engineering: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
AiXun T3x F(L)OSS update tool: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
 

Offline dreamcat4

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #591 on: September 16, 2022, 09:32:17 pm »
sorry i cannot check that now. because my t3a is currently in a fully dissassembled state. and will most likely remain like this for the time being

if the noise is troubling then i would suggest perhaps consider to be speculatively replacing those part(s). which this i suppose is the point of your question (to better confirm).

what i can say is that my previous ksger t12 iron. it does exhibit an audible clicking when heating. when drawing a high current. however that noise is coming actually from a really old atx smps pc psu (thru also an rd tech dph3005 boost converter). but the noise really sounds like an inductor or something similar. and i just ignore the noise because it is harmless. and simply not annoying enough to be bothered about it.

anyhow that does not help you here. but much earlier (perhaps in this same thread). there is the guy who bought multiples of these aixun t3a. and some of the units are silent. whilst other units does perhaps exhibit the same sort of clicking noise. or whatever it is. so i recommend to try to search / find the previous posts about that here. to check if it is in fact the same issue

sorry my memory is not so good. to give a better help and find exactly those relevant past discussion. (the conversation was happening long time before i finally got my own unit here)
 
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Offline c0d3z3r0

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #592 on: September 17, 2022, 08:33:36 pm »
The noise of the supply is caused by PWM for the heater. When connecting the heater directly to the supply, it's humming silently - waaaaaaay less disturbing compared to that heating noise, ugh.

Btw. this supply provides 15A!!!!!!! The transformer (and all the rest lol) is definitely not rated for that... holy moly... :bullshit:

Some more details on the supply:
- T12 near the transformer is not the part number (which is T1) but probably means this supply is a T12 solder station copy.
- PWM controller Chip-Rail CR6842(S) https://pdf.dzsc.com/88888/20086179315462.pdf
- recommended for <= 120W supplies
- R on RI is 24k -> ~72.5 kHz center frequency

Oh wow, if I'm not mistaken, they have messed up the over-current protection.

Instead of this:


                MOSFET Source
                 |
                 |           R_s     
SENSE <---+------===------ GND


They have done this:


                            MOSFET Source
                                       |
                            R_s     |
SENSE <----------===----+-- GND


This completely breaks over-current protection :D


Edit: I was wrong!

                            MOSFET Source
                                       |
                            680     |               R10, R11 (0.43 each) -> R_s = 0.215
SENSE <----------===----+------+---===-----+--- GND
                                                +---===-----+
                                     
« Last Edit: September 17, 2022, 11:02:45 pm by c0d3z3r0 »
AiXun T3A reverse engineering: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
AiXun T3x F(L)OSS update tool: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
 
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Offline dreamcat4

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #593 on: September 18, 2022, 07:30:30 am »
well yes, of course

the thing to realize is that the psu should have been designed for short bursts of power. rather than a high continuus power. it only needs to dump current in for about about 3 seconds to get the tip up to operating temperature so fast

once a c245 cartridge is actually soldering and heatsinking into a heavy ground plane. then the maximum power the tip can dissipate across that thermal junction becomes the limiting steady state continuus power draw. which is actually significantly lower... what was it supposed to be exactly depends on the size of the tip. but even for the biggest ones. probably never more than about 80 or 120w

so yes, i would expect the smps to be different or modified in certain ways. to enable higher burt current. (but only for short durations, of just a few seconds). and this is not exactly the same as most general typical off the shelf smps. in order to be so compact design here.

[edit] however presumably this is why we are replacing the electrolytic caps for higher quality ones. to last for a bit longer. with the extra work they are doing... (as am i myself, they are waiting on my desk here)
« Last Edit: September 18, 2022, 07:33:17 am by dreamcat4 »
 

Offline c0d3z3r0

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #594 on: September 18, 2022, 03:57:37 pm »
well yes, of course

the thing to realize is that the psu should have been designed for short bursts of power. rather than a high continuus power. it only needs to dump current in for about about 3 seconds to get the tip up to operating temperature so fast

once a c245 cartridge is actually soldering and heatsinking into a heavy ground plane. then the maximum power the tip can dissipate across that thermal junction becomes the limiting steady state continuus power draw. which is actually significantly lower... what was it supposed to be exactly depends on the size of the tip. but even for the biggest ones. probably never more than about 80 or 120w

so yes, i would expect the smps to be different or modified in certain ways. to enable higher burt current. (but only for short durations, of just a few seconds). and this is not exactly the same as most general typical off the shelf smps. in order to be so compact design here.

Well, many off-the-shelf SMPS *do* support high burst current (some even up to 300 %). And they are compact as well. They are still protected to not kill the coil^^

Examples:
80W - 140% burst - https://eu.mouser.com/datasheet/2/687/tpi50a_j_datasheet-2934377.pdf
150W - 170W peak, 2 sec - https://eu.mouser.com/datasheet/2/643/belf_s_a0011739248_1-2290148.pdf
...

I had a look at the reference schematic for CR6842S and compare that to the T3A supply now. The supply is nothing special - or let's say "off-the-shelf"-like ;) They only modified the OC resistor to allow higher current, but I believe they have *not* upgraded the transformer as they should have. Also, as I said, 15A output current, which is delivered continuously, is highly suspicious....


[edit] however presumably this is why we are replacing the electrolytic caps for higher quality ones. to last for a bit longer. with the extra work they are doing... (as am i myself, they are waiting on my desk here)

Well, I'll wait until they break and replace then. Even if the PWM controllier dies, it's not a big deal. Just get one (or a pin/spec compatible like OB2269) on eBay.

Anyway, as long as there is no short circuit, you'd be fine with that supply. But.... protections are there for the worst case, so... hmmmm
« Last Edit: September 18, 2022, 04:07:19 pm by c0d3z3r0 »
AiXun T3A reverse engineering: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
AiXun T3x F(L)OSS update tool: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
 

Offline dreamcat4

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #595 on: September 18, 2022, 04:29:20 pm »
ah ok thanks! these clarifications were easier to understand now. and quite helpful  :-+

indeed if you get an issue with the handle. or the cartridge mis-position (pushed in too far). then a short can potentially occur

actually on my previous t12 controller (with a cheap t12 handle). the handle was badly constructed. and a short did in fact occur. the result was that the switching mosfet very quickly burned itself. and catch on fire. which then messed up and delaminated the pcb.

by the time i could react, it was not in great shape, that area of the pcb. however with some glue i stuck the power traces layer back on. and repaired with a new mosfet. the pcb does have a crater in it. but still function is not affected

true what you are saying ocp could be better. so if there is a mod to existing smps (without replace whole entire smps. then that would be pretty cool. a worthwhile mod to include with the others

in terms of avoiding over current... i had already decided to remove the +24v output barrel jack on the rear. to replace it with the relocation of the gx12-5 from the front panel.

so at least that avoids over current coming from that optional feature. (so probably for the best it would seem)
 

Offline c0d3z3r0

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #596 on: September 18, 2022, 08:07:27 pm »
ah ok thanks! these clarifications were easier to understand now. and quite helpful  :-+

indeed if you get an issue with the handle. or the cartridge mis-position (pushed in too far). then a short can potentially occur

actually on my previous t12 controller (with a cheap t12 handle). the handle was badly constructed. and a short did in fact occur. the result was that the switching mosfet very quickly burned itself. and catch on fire. which then messed up and delaminated the pcb.

OOOOOOF!  :--

true what you are saying ocp could be better. so if there is a mod to existing smps (without replace whole entire smps. then that would be pretty cool. a worthwhile mod to include with the others

Yep, that's what I thought of. However, I'm having problems with the calculation tbh. The datasheet says more or like "it's as simple as I=U/R_s", but...

There are two mechanisms. "Constant Output Power Limit" and "Limited Power Control". Seems to be exactly, what I was talking about previously - constant and peak current.
R_sense controls the constant current, while *something* FB related controls peak.

They mention T_LPS for the second mechanism, but it's nowhere defined *sigh*.

For R_sense, whatever I try to calculate does not yield anything senseful (LOL).

in terms of avoiding over current... i had already decided to remove the +24v output barrel jack on the rear. to replace it with the relocation of the gx12-5 from the front panel.

so at least that avoids over current coming from that optional feature. (so probably for the best it would seem)

This 24V output is just a bullshit feature  :-DD
AiXun T3A reverse engineering: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
AiXun T3x F(L)OSS update tool: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
 
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Offline dreamcat4

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #597 on: September 19, 2022, 11:45:57 am »
Then can place my order. Since all else is ordered for mods now  :-+

ok, so the extra silicone cable needed to daisy chain the stand is available on aliexpress as:

"1M Sq 0.3 0.5 0.75 1 1.5 2 2.5 4 6mm Soft Silicone Rubber Cable 2 3 4 6 Cores Insulated Flexible Copper High Temperature Wire"

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001454836110.html

Black, Square 0.3mm, 4 Cores

which has 5.8mm outer diameter.

And the connector indeed can be the same GX12-5 because Pin 1 is not connected in the aixun T245 handle wiring. So then Pin 1 can be used for routing the stand idle detect wire.

This was the last thing I had to order for those aixun mods. But I also ordered some kits of nutserts / heatset / heat serts from aliexpress at the same time. For the extra tips holder mod by c0d3z3r0.

We should probably re-collect all of this as a full bom parts list. Including the TVS Diodes too. Instead of having them spread across so many different comments. Although maybe would prefer to defer that and then be clearer which TVS diodes, and which nutserts / heatserts were actually used in the end. After actually finishing all those mods.
 

Offline c0d3z3r0

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #598 on: September 19, 2022, 01:33:14 pm »
And the connector indeed can be the same GX12-5 because Pin 1 is not connected in the aixun T245 handle wiring. So then Pin 1 can be used for routing the stand idle detect wire.

This only applies to T245, not to T12 (and probably 936 as well), where the pin should be used. Do you have a T3A T12 handle to check?
AiXun T3A reverse engineering: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
AiXun T3x F(L)OSS update tool: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
 

Offline dreamcat4

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #599 on: September 19, 2022, 02:58:33 pm »
And the connector indeed can be the same GX12-5 because Pin 1 is not connected in the aixun T245 handle wiring. So then Pin 1 can be used for routing the stand idle detect wire.

This only applies to T245, not to T12 (and probably 936 as well), where the pin should be used. Do you have a T3A T12 handle to check?

if the person doing the mod wants to use a different handle than t245, firstly i would say dont do that. but secondly... well then you can instead just buy for similar price the 6 pin versions of these gx12-6 aviation connectors. and it will also fit perfectly on the rear panel of the main station base unit. on to the same existing hole to replace the existing +24v dc barrel jack mounting hole.

by doing that... then you cannot possibly confuse the new 6-pin extension cable going between the base station and the stand. because the handle will no longer be able to plug in. from 5 pins to 6. and then it also permits the 1 extra wire you might need. for the stand idle detect. (assuming the stand for other handle types will be capable support that feature).

the more important difference however.... is that then you cannot order the 0.3mm^2 sq (aka 22awg probably) 4-cores silicone cable. as per the spec given in my previous comment today. because only 4 wires is required for the t245 handle. as it has only 3 wires (+ add 1 extra to carry the stand idle detect signal to the stand). when other handles will need more wires. either 5 or 6.

so another handle needs more wires in the cable. then those wires will have to be thinner to keep the same overall outer diameter and fit the 5.8mm diameter hole. where we pass the whole sheath in through the hole of the metal casing of these gx12 aviation connector.

actually you can maybe use a bit thicker diameter by cutting the sheathing outer insulation short. and not pass it thru the hole (only bare wires). because the metal clamp with the 2 screwa and the gripping ridges. it clamps on just before the hole. but i just did not want to do that. for the sake of a better more durable cable. that is more secure not to pop out and become compromised. at that wear failure point of the strain relief. so ymmv

so anyhow. any for situation you can fit the 6 pins version connectors to the back of the base and stand (if you wish). also for using these t245 handle too. independant of how many cores must be the cable (either 4, 5, or 6?). however then wit a different number of pins. it is no longer going to be possible to optionally directly connect the handle cable to the back (bypassing the stand). which might be useful, for example: for mobile appications. or for unforseen situation where you forgot the stand. or lost the standd. or broke the stand. (or broke the cable to the stand). etc. etc.

so for any sensible person (to be smart enough to see the reasons, and get the t245t handle to begin with). for those who knows well enout for not to insist to get any other inferior performiance type handles... which is the entire point of this aixun t3a station to begin with. then there is no point to the 6-pin connector here... at all. just don't do it. and loose the compatibility to t12. its not worth the bother to keep compatible.

however if you do fit the 6-pin (for other handles compatibilirt). than can potentially also retro fit the t245 handle's cable with also a matching 6 pin. then it could indeed connect directly on to the back panel of the base unit. but then only the back (not both front and back). or instead you can keep the 5 pin of the front only. and 6 pin on the back. just you cannot upgrade the front to 6 pins (it cannot be because it fixes directly onto the controller pcb).

so there are indeed a variety of options it can be done. and that is all probably far too confusing for most people reading this explanation. then just order both types. get 3x gx12-5 and also 2-3 of the gx12-6. to decide later on during final assembly time. when you actually do the mod(s). however you are on your own with the extension cable specs. which needs to be right, because if the wires are too thin, those are carrying a substantial current and the cable length is being extended further. so try not to under spec the conductors thickness. (for more than 4 cores)

it probably would help too make pictures with labels. to show better all of those possible different alternative configurations. however i just don't see the point to recommend any of them. just use t245 aixun blue handle only. with 5 pin everywhere. and the 4 cores silicone wire between the base and the stand. for happy days / simple life. (and for the most flexible connectivity, and highest performance). why make things harder for yourself to create a worse solution. it does not seem worth it

 :-//
 


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