ANSMANN Got wild 4400mA charging power for AA NiMH !!

[Kiriakos-GR]

I just had a look of the latest catalog of Ansmann products 2011-2012 ..

I have left speechless with their latest model of fast charger..
They call it as Digispeed 4 Ultra 

Those models haves selectable speed about slow or fast charging,
even so their latest model , looks to was made so to handle their latest 1100 AAA at fast charge,
and so it has 1100mA as fast charge option.
But at the AA it does 2200/4400mA !! 

Their highest in mA AA it is at 2850 mA ..
By pushing the charge current at 4400A , they go up to 54% above the nominal specs of their batteries.
Speaking about specs the Ansmann AA 2850mA digital,  are rated to 5400mA  Max discharge current !!

I do not know if by supplying active cooling on the chargers, and by investing at so much R&D on the AA rechargeable,
ended up to race alone, and leading the race  !!

But my advice are that if some one comes near to those ULTRA fast chargers,
he must have and the correct batteries made also by Ansmann,
or else he is in danger to have fireworks in his own room.

All the Ansmann fast chargers and battery stations, they are very well made by using -DV charging , plus microprocessors that control everything, three steps charging for the battery stations  ( large units) (Refreshing - Charge & Trickle ), and two steps for the fast AA chargers (Charge & Trickle ).

Even if I all ready own their :
Digispeed 4         AAA 300/750mA  & AA 700/1750mA
Energy 4 speed   AAA 350/800mA  & AA 850/2100mA

Battery station:
Energy 8    AAA 300 & AA 700mA

I believe that the Digispeed 4 Ultra 
it is a bit risky as marketing step.

If some one owns it, I would like to see a mini review of it .. or just report what happens at fast charge 4400mA ?

[Kibi]

That is some insane current to pass through such a small battery! I don't even charge car batteries at that rate.
Who can be in such a hurry to charge a battery. Usually you get yourself more organised with enough batteries to do what ever you are doing if you cycle through batteries that quickly. High powered flash guns can gobble up a set of batteries rather quickly, but photographers are usually aware of this and carry enough fully charged spares around with them to last an hour or two whilst the dead ones are being refreshed at a sensible charge rate.
Standard NiMH batteries do self discharge fairly quickly, so you might pick up a set only to find them low on juice so then you'd want to give them a really fast charge. However these days Low Self Discharge NiMH batteries are available which solves that problem.
I wonder if there are any gadgets out there that can discharge AA's any quicker than that beast can charge them.
Sure, Radio Controlled race cars etc. can consume over 75A peak, but they are not using AA's.
Very interesting though.

[Time]

http://www.northstarbattery.com/1.0.1.0/189/NSB170Blue_SES-542-37-04.01.pdf

NOW THAT, my friends, is a battery. 

12V/6000A short circuit/No limit on the charging current

[Kiriakos-GR]

Well there is a good secret that the companies who make all those Low Self Discharge NiMH batteries,
they do not say it to you.

Their specifications stands for environmental temperature of 20C Max !! 

In simple words they last a bit more only in the winter time ( Low Self Discharge ).     
In summer there is no difference both standard NiMH and Low Self Discharge ones, acts the same.

The best temperature to store one charged NiMH are at 6C.
Do I need a refrigerator just to storage my NiMH ? 

High powered flash guns

Its true they are killers, yesterday I was making tests with AA and one 20GN small flash gun ( 2XAA) ,
I was benchmarking two expensive DMM, of which one would monitor best the high and fast consumption,
between every charge cycle. 

The numbers that I got was extremely reviling.
3,2A Peak  1 Microsecond sampling
2,4A Max   250  Microseconds sampling 
100mA   minimum when it got charged. 

20 cycles as that, would make any AA to wake up for good , and get to 40C body temperature. 
 
I did try and a analog Amperes meter (made in Japan) the peak that it could show was just 2A,
Yes the needles are slow, I admit it.     

Found the Users manual of this monster charger, it does advices to use exclusively Ansmann AA on it.
Check the attachment.   

[ivan747]

Why don't just wait 30 extra minutes? Charging batteries does not stop you from watching TV, guys! It prevents from having a fireworks show at home and saves big bucks on special batteries, also batteries will have a longer lifespan and you can use cheap batteries with them too.

A good idea is to get dirt cheap NiCD batteries. Two sets for every remote you have. Keep one set for backup and change them when they get discharged, then charge them for an hour and voilá, another 2 months of TV without the annoyance on digging through the house to get some batteries.

Keep the brand name NiMH for stuff like cameras and such.

[ipman]

If you really need to recharge the batteries as fast as this charger and don't want to hurt them, go get an expensive charger like those used in model competitions.
They feature temperature-regulated charging variable current, even you can connect individual cells in a battery pack to equalize them.
But one thing I can say for sure: NOT cheap!.

[Psi]

http://www.northstarbattery.com/1.0.1.0/189/NSB170Blue_SES-542-37-04.01.pdf

NOW THAT, my friends, is a battery. 

12V/6000A short circuit/No limit on the charging current

haha "Maximum Charge Current =  no limit"

i think that needs testing...

[ipman]

@Psi: to test that you need some serious current. I doubt this is available to any hobbyst, unless he/she is bilionaire 

[Kibi]

Well there is a good secret that the companies who make all those Low Self Discharge NiMH batteries,
they do not say it to you.

Their specifications stands for environmental temperature of 20C Max !! 

In simple words they last a bit more only in the winter time ( Low Self Discharge ).     
In summer there is no difference both standard NiMH and Low Self Discharge ones, acts the same.

In my experience the LSD NiMH are very good.
I bought a set of GP ReCyko batteries in Poland 2 years ago. I charged them in Poland and put them in my flash gun.
I used the Flash at a wedding in Poland and then I have used the flash occasionally at home.
Those ReCyko batteries that were last charged in Poland 2 years ago are still going, they are behaving is as if they are Alkaline batteries. My good Sanyo and Panasonic standard NiMH batteries that I charged 8 months ago and then stored are now discharged (self discharge).
But, that is just my experience.

[Kiriakos-GR]

About batteries I own only top dogs like:
Sanyo AA 2700 X8
Ansmann AA 2850 Digital X4
Some old AA by Kodak 2100mAh X4 ( 4 Years old)
Sanyo Eneloop   AA 2000mAh X4
Old Sanyo 1600mAh X2  ( 11 years old)  still kicking  ( it was a set of four)
Sanyo industrial AA 2100mAh  X2 ( Green color no markings)
Ansmann AAA 1100 X4

Even if the Eneloop considered as Low Self Discharge,
In my tests I have not manage to verify the theoretical specs about be stored for months.
Probably that's why Sanyo replaced the first version of Eneloop , with a newer one,
four months back.

I have no experience with ReCyko.

Edit :
Yes I have five digital cameras and professional High powered flash gun,
plus I use AA in anything, LED headlight / LED hand lights / even at my bicycle warning lights.
I wish to had the large Ansmann battery station " Energy 16 " but it is very expensive.

 

[ipman]

There are currently 3 versions (as far as I know) of the clasic white Eneloops. I have all 3 of them, none failed, even capacity is very near to initial one.
Charged/discharged with Maha MH-C9000.
All used succesfully with Canon flashes, 420EX and 580EX, last one has GN58, so very powerfull.
About the Ansmann charger: I cannot understand why it's expensive.
Take a Maha MH-C9000 and you will see endless choices: charge current is selectable in 100mA increments from 200 to 2000mA for each cell, discharge from 100 to 1000mA also in 100mA increments, refresh and many other goodies. Unfortunatelly only 4 slots.
The chargers used in model racing: even more features, but prices 10 to 50 times more than MH-C9000. But ... USB connections to computer to log data, internal storage for each battery so you can see the trend, and many more features.

[Kiriakos-GR]

I have turn down anything that comes from the Maha channel.
They do not create technology, they just buy and sell .

Everything that comes from Maha , gets sold by other 10 generic brand names.
I have make one in-depth research about this subject,
but I do not care to backup my opinion again,
every one gets what ever he thinks as best.

About the Ansmann charger: I cannot understand why it's expensive.

The large battery stations have an extra function called as refreshing,
this must be their own technology,  I can only imagine that is something with pulses and reversed pulses.
Makes the battery chemistry active , fights back any memory effect.
This is probably why they cost so much.

[ipman]

Give me one example of a rebranded MH-C9000. Because I don't know the existence of a charger with similar capabilities.
The only chargers that are as close as possible are LaCrosse BC700 and 900, but they are not identical.
And BTW, the MH-C9000 also uses pulse charging in normal charging mode, and has a "break-in" option that they claim to revive dead cells.

[Kiriakos-GR]

Before some months I had even a collection of pictures with burned maha chargers,
but I do not have it any more.

About searching, Google is your friend, It needs hours or days to spot those full of tears stories,
but they are interesting. 

By the way I had never see an dead Ansmann,
well actually I did and buy it,  it was the Energy 8,
got it from Germany for 20EUR shipped, and I repair it,
it had blown the input 220V ( due an over-voltage in the German Mains ) 
Never found an second one. 

[ipman]

Kiriakos, when I say I did not find any clone of the MH-C9000 that means I've searched allready, but did not had any sucess.
Most of the stories are because of the user ignorance, they don't know anything about charging, they throw a random or default charge current and then they complain. I know that. But we who are talking here, are supposed to know at least charging basics.
Also, it's not fair to compare that Ansmann model with Maha. I bet Maha sold many times more devices that Ansmann, so it's normal to find more information - good, bad, evil or anything else.
I have a MH-C9000 for more than 3 years now. Never had any issue, not even minor ones. I know some other friends who use them, also never had problems at all.
Still, I've read about somebody trying to charge cells with very high impedance with MH-C9000 and the charger shown bad. He put the cells in a plain trickle charger, they were overheating as hell, but they charged eventually. His conclusion? Maha is worst and more expensive than this plain cheap charger. It's not the single complaints ... it's enough to read "between the lines" and refine the tehnical truth.

[Kiriakos-GR]

I have one last word to say about Ansmann,
I have one large difficulty to brag about them,
for the simplest reason " That they do no do an aggressive marketing push" for their products out side of Germany.
It Looks like that they are happy to have just the German market as customer, and to not care for the rest.

Even me I had to fresh-up my rusty German (Third language) , so to snick in the German Ebay   
and locate the Ansmann products.

I did almost the same so to locate Chauvin Arnoux products, I had to invade in France ( Ebay)  LOL   

[ipman]

I have nothing to complain about Ansmann.
I said what I said because we are tehnical persons and should compare relevant data and capabilities, not random ones.
Here, a DIY chain called Hornbach brings them to our market.  There is no problem getting most of their products also, but they did not produce outstanding devices, from a tehnical point of view, to justify their aquisition at higher prices than Maha/Powerex. They are not bad, but they lack a lot of features found in Maha/Powerex top-of-the-line charger.

[hans]

Amazes me we all missed this video posted in the relative childhood of the EEVBlog:



A Varta battery charger that does 15minutes charging of 2100mAh cells. That's a whopping 8A charging rate. Kaboom!

[Kiriakos-GR]

15minutes charging of 2100mAh cells. That's a whopping 8A charging rate. Kaboom!

LOL ... this is the total for four Cells.

If we redo the math about the Ansmann we have 17.6 A for four cells =  True Kaboom.

 

[ipman]

Not really that much.
Those charger uses pulse charging, and in Maha's case, it applies pulses of about 2 amps to each one of the cells, but one at a time, not all at once. So we have 4 cells charging at 2 amps each, but the power supply is giving us only 2 amps at a time.
Take a look at the power consumption and you will see a much lower value than 17.6A.

@Kiriakos: please show me where you found that Maha clone and complaints. I am very interested.

[Kiriakos-GR]

@Kiriakos: please show me where you found that Maha clone and complaints. I am very interested.

No I will not, plus I do not have the links.
I spent over two months searching and translating text, so to make my mind if it really worth's even to import this High tech Maha junk.
And I did it because I am crazy about quality + poor, and so every dollar does count. ( No room for experiments) 
And so I could not hand over one such research to any one.

Even so you can start from that, and move on by your self.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?172952-Electrolytic-in-Maha-charger-exploded

[ipman]

I've researched about charging batteries for years.
About that Maha: filter information. An exploded cap is nothing unusual these days! I change a lot of them because of increased ESR and lost capacity. It's just another thrifty manufacturer saving 0.1 cents each cap. Anyway, it was user error because he used the charger outside specs!
But if you want to keep the information for yourself, be it. But next time when you are claiming anything here, please tell us the reason, backed by information, otherwise this discution is useless to others.

[Kiriakos-GR]

I am not so young, so to need to back up my knowledge that comes from my personal experience  with web links,
so to get the what ever credibility.

This thread is an presentation about Ansmann who got wild. 

If you need to learn more by the help of the others about the Maha chargers,
feel free to open your own thread, and any one who is willing to assist you,
he will pop in.

Simple as that.

 

[ipman]

Kiriakos, my friend. I don't need more info about Maha chargers, I studied for years.
If I say I cannot find a clone of MH-C9000 and you say you did find one, show me. That's the only way to convince me, because I cannot show you I did NOT find a clone! Get real!
And you post a problem related to another charger, used outside specs by an untrained and ignorant person and tell me because of that all chargers made by Maha suck? Common ... the persons which gather around here have at least basic knowledge about electronics.

[Mechatrommer]

Well there is a good secret that the companies who make all those Low Self Discharge NiMH batteries,
they do not say it to you.
Their specifications stands for environmental temperature of 20C Max !! 

and another one... every batteries are mortal!

In my experience the LSD NiMH are very good.
I bought a set of GP ReCyko batteries in Poland 2 years ago. I charged them in Poland and put them in my flash gun.
I used the Flash at a wedding in Poland and then I have used the flash occasionally at home.
Those ReCyko batteries that were last charged in Poland 2 years ago are still going, they are behaving is as if they are Alkaline batteries.

not a very good way to test rechargable. my method in Longevity of NiMH cells is the "proven self experienced" (but no record/proof) on how to fail rechargables. but my experience with LSD is new, ie only Maha Imedion tested, 1 dead out of 8 cells bought ~2 years ago. now i just bought Eneloop ready to be tested. in my quest for immortal battery, your "GP ReCyko" can be a good collection in my test. do you care to tell me the exact battery model?

to all, in the linked thread you can as well see how the maha charger was tested. feel free to post on how to "ideally" charge a NiMH battery, technically (ie not socially), and tell me why my 8 cells mh-c801d (>2years old) is not ideal enough as a charger. enter the poll/thread if you really have the ball! cheers