Lecroy wavesurfer 3024 fail to boot

[bson]

My WS3054 has started acting up again and the micro-SD based recovery doesn't seem to help. It displays the logo and steps through "Upgrading Logo", "Upgrading FPGA", and "Upgrading Boot IMG" (or "Image", forget off hand as I'm typing this); it stops at the latter for 5 seconds or so, then starts over.  I take this to mean it failed and reset.  I've tried both 32GB and 8GB (SDHC) cards, MBR partition tabled, with a single primary partition set to active.  FAT32 with 16k and 8k extents, respectively. (I used diskpart on Win10.)  No dice, both cards behave exactly the same...
The file I have and used is WS3K_ACQ3ND_8.4.1.5.zip

I have a gut feel this means the NAND flash has too many errors for the CRC to be recoverable and it needs to be reformatted (presumably the bad sectors will be replaced).  But if I'm going to do that and go through a complete reformat and reinstall I might be better off replacing them (assuming not super high density BGA).  If BGA there might also be a detached or cracked ball...

Looking for ideas...

[bson]

I have not attempted 9.6.0.1 yet. I would like someone to confirm that it does indeed work for WS3000

Super belated comment... but yes, 9.6.0.1 is what I have on my non-Z 3054 and it worked great.  I assume you already figured out the answer, but maybe this is of some use to someone else coming across this thread in the future.

[analogRF]

My WS3054 has started acting up again and the micro-SD based recovery doesn't seem to help. It displays the logo and steps through "Upgrading Logo", "Upgrading FPGA", and "Upgrading Boot IMG" (or "Image", forget off hand as I'm typing this); it stops at the latter for 5 seconds or so, then starts over.  I take this to mean it failed and reset.  I've tried both 32GB and 8GB (SDHC) cards, MBR partition tabled, with a single primary partition set to active.  FAT32 with 16k and 8k extents, respectively. (I used diskpart on Win10.)  No dice, both cards behave exactly the same...
The file I have and used is WS3K_ACQ3ND_8.4.1.5.zip

I have a gut feel this means the NAND flash has too many errors for the CRC to be recoverable and it needs to be reformatted (presumably the bad sectors will be replaced).  But if I'm going to do that and go through a complete reformat and reinstall I might be better off replacing them (assuming not super high density BGA).  If BGA there might also be a detached or cracked ball...

Looking for ideas...

by "again" you mean you had done recovery before and it had worked for a while?

I think formatting the flash should fix it. In case you want to replace it, the FLASH chip is MT29C4G96MAZBACKD-5 (marking JW732)
but the board is HUGE and very thick, so personally I dont have the courage to replace that chip frankly 

[bson]

by "again" you mean you had done recovery before and it had worked for a while?

I think formatting the flash should fix it. In case you want to replace it, the FLASH chip is MT29C4G96MAZBACKD-5 (marking JW732)
but the board is HUGE and very thick, so personally I dont have the courage to replace that chip frankly 

Yeah, got stuck in a boot loop before and I restored it back to working order.  This was about a year ago.

Will I need anything else other than rename '_format.bin' to 'format.bin'?  I see there's a 182MB file there (LecroyNK.up), is this some sort of compressed package file?  Or do I need some sort of separate installer or packages afterwards?

Also, if it's self-contained, which I assume it is - will it also recover the S/N, licenses and cal data from a more reliable or duplicate record?  If so I would guess it reverts to factory defaults plus licenses, so will need at least an auto cal.

And, yeah, I'd rather not start replacing chips.  But a 0.5mm QFP isn't a big deal, it's just fine-pitch BGAs that I've had mixed results with.

BTW, I'm astonished this scope is powered by a 1GHz Cortex-A8 from 2011, with its firmware fitting in something like a 185MB archive, even if compressed... simply astonishing.

[analogRF]

Will I need anything else other than rename '_format.bin' to 'format.bin'?  I see there's a 182MB file there (LecroyNK.up), is this some sort of compressed package file?  Or do I need some sort of separate installer or packages afterwards?

Also, if it's self-contained, which I assume it is - will it also recover the S/N, licenses and cal data from a more reliable or duplicate record?  If so I would guess it reverts to factory defaults plus licenses, so will need at least an auto cal.

And, yeah, I'd rather not start replacing chips.  But a 0.5mm QFP isn't a big deal, it's just fine-pitch BGAs that I've had mixed results with.

BTW, I'm astonished this scope is powered by a 1GHz Cortex-A8 from 2011, with its firmware fitting in something like a 185MB archive, even if compressed... simply astonishing.

yes just change to format.bin.
you will lose cal data and S/N and options. must be restored from EEPROM from the service menu (PW 9472) /BTD calibration/ restore BTD from EEPROM

[bson]

yes just change to format.bin.
you will lose cal data and S/N and options. must be restored from EEPROM from the service menu (PW 9472) /BTD calibration/ restore BTD from EEPROM

Tried it; still no go.  It adds a FORMAT step on boot, but then still resets on Boot IMG Update...

Starting to think something is truly borked, will have to take it apart and check if there's anything on the console output.

[analogRF]

yes just change to format.bin.
you will lose cal data and S/N and options. must be restored from EEPROM from the service menu (PW 9472) /BTD calibration/ restore BTD from EEPROM

Tried it; still no go.  It adds a FORMAT step on boot, but then still resets on Boot IMG Update...

Starting to think something is truly borked, will have to take it apart and check if there's anything on the console output.

that doesn't sound good. Usually the formatting should have fixed it. Please keep us posted on your findings. At this point it seems like a bad NAND flash chip
debug boot record should be very helpful.

it may not be important but Lecroy specifically says after you clean and format the SD card (fat32) first copy the MLO file on to the root of SD and then copy the rest of the files next to it. I dont know why that should be important but maybe you want to keep that in mind too

[tooki]

I kindly ask for your help to share the firmware with me; you would greatly assist me. On the official Teledyne LeCroy website, the firmware upgrade for the WaveSurfer 3000 oscilloscope version 9.2.0.5 did not approve my registration, and I cannot download the firmware because I am from Ukraine (It's very strange that they didn't ask about the color of my skin  ). Unfortunately, if you don't help me, I'll have to discard the LeCroy WaveSurfer 3000 and switch to an oscilloscope from another company without racism, such as Tektronix or LeCroy.

It’s not racism, it’s export controls.

And another company, such as… LeCroy?!?

Slavic languages form sentences differently. It does not always translate directly.

"Not translates itself directly" is valid structure...

I think he mentions LeCroy and Tek as an example of companies that do export control and therefore which he might avoid.

Translation between slavic languages and English is more like a "explain it in your own words but keep the meaning" activity.

Translation is the art of taking a text in one language and rewriting it in another language, such that it is understandable to the reader of the target language. It’s always “in your own words” because it has to be. Taking a sentence in one language and replacing its words with the equivalent words of the target language (without rearranging, adapting to grammar, etc) is not translating, it’s just word-by-word transliterating, and is typically useless. Every proper translation is a rewording. Source: I used to work as a translator. (And I studied linguistics at university.)

None of what you said has anything to do with translation, though. A person’s native language will influence what mistakes they make when speaking or writing a foreign language. (I have so much experience with German and its native speakers that I have become quite adept at decoding what they mean when they write broken English, for example.) With that said, I don’t know any Slavic languages so I can’t “decode”, so I have to take what is written at face value. With that said, I don’t think the issue here was a language barrier, but a slip-up: I assume they meant to write “…Tektronix and [Keysight or R&S or Rigol or Siglent]”.

[bson]

the FLASH chip is MT29C4G96MAZBACKD-5 (marking JW732)

It's also totally obsolete and finding one requires going fishing on the various scam markets.  It's a 137 pin BGA, which isn't too bad, but I'd rather not go through 5 to find one that is the genuine article!  Being BGA I'd also want to reball with leaded solder paste.

Debating whether to bother with this or to sell it for parts...  I might take the board out to take a look at the other side to see if I can put it on a heater - but I suspect it's going to have a bunch of passives on the opposite side that would need to come off first for that.

[analogRF]

the FLASH chip is MT29C4G96MAZBACKD-5 (marking JW732)

It's also totally obsolete and finding one requires going fishing on the various scam markets.  It's a 137 pin BGA, which isn't too bad, but I'd rather not go through 5 to find one that is the genuine article!  Being BGA I'd also want to reball with leaded solder paste.

Debating whether to bother with this or to sell it for parts...  I might take the board out to take a look at the other side to see if I can put it on a heater - but I suspect it's going to have a bunch of passives on the opposite side that would need to come off first for that.

were you able to find a UART debug port and look at the boot record?

[ranvocd1]

Hey I actually have a broken shaft on my potentiometer for a basically similar device (3074) but you are the only one that did an almost to full teardown. Were you able to remove the front black faceplate? It seems like two screws that are used to mount the display are somehow also holding the faceplate, preventing the removal of the faceplate regardless of how much I pull or wiggle. I did not want to force it open in fear of breaking the whole front face plate on the stuck mounts and I have tried to peer in with a flashlight to see if there is a clip or anything but no luck... just two posts that seemed like they are screwed in, but inaccessible.

[tautech]

Hey I actually have a broken shaft on my potentiometer for a basically similar device (3074) but you are the only one that did an almost to full teardown. Were you able to remove the front black faceplate? It seems like two screws that are used to mount the display are somehow also holding the faceplate, preventing the removal of the faceplate regardless of how much I pull or wiggle. I did not want to force it open in fear of breaking the whole front face plate on the stuck mounts and I have tried to peer in with a flashlight to see if there is a clip or anything but no luck... just two posts that seemed like they are screwed in, but inaccessible.

Welcome to the forum.

Remove the model decal/sticker and you should find additional securing screws behind it.

[ranvocd1]

Thanks for the information, did not seem like it was a sticker initially since it was very tight. Since you are familiar with Siglent, Would you happen to know if this individual board can be sourced or is that not possible?

[tautech]

Thanks for the information, did not seem like it was a sticker initially since it was very tight. Since you are familiar with Siglent, Would you happen to know if this individual board can be sourced or is that not possible?

Maybe via Siglent NA however these older SDS3000 (China only model) have been discontinued and I have no idea of parts stocks.
Maybe the same encoder PCB was used in the later 3000X models (IIRC Z in LeCroy) and that's an exercise for you to investigate.

What's wrong with the PCB ?
You should be able to find an equivalent encoder.

[ranvocd1]

Though I do think I can find an equivalent encoder when removed and by researching the part reference, I do not think I have the proper equipment nor skills to properly remove potentiometers that are SMD mounted without potentially damaging the board. SMD resistors, capacitors, inductors I can do due to the small pad size and use of 2 pins, not much solder removal involved.

[tautech]

Though I do think I can find an equivalent encoder when removed and by researching the part reference, I do not think I have the proper equipment nor skills to properly remove potentiometers that are SMD mounted without potentially damaging the board

Low temp AG solder and solder sucker or desoldering iron should handle encoder replacement with ease as it's a TH part not SMD.
I'd give it a go, and on any day of the week.