Test electrical outlets and circuit breaker

[GGMM]

Hello,


I wanted to know if anyone has used this type of device to test their electrical installation.
https://www.distrimesure.com/fr/217-testeurs-et-controleurs-de-disjoncteurs-differentiels

Indeed, I accidentally failed a plug without ground, and I wonder if my differential breaker still works well.
It is necessary to know that in France the counters are changed and I wonder if phase and neutral would not have been reversed.
Some says it's the same with connexions inverted?
I say this because I made a mistake by 2 times connecting my multimeter which was actually in ohmmeter position between ground and phase. A beautiful spark, but no disjunction.
I wonder if we can cause the disjunction by connecting a resistance between phase and ground. But what is the rule of calculation for this one for 30ma for example. I think that these small devices do only that in circuit breaker test. (?)

Good after for 30 euros, it can always be used.
Your opinions.
cdt

[indeterminate]

Yes

It is a bit difficult to follow the translation.
a device like the VT35 is fine for a hobbyist/home owner to do a quick  test
i have a device like the K6010B witch is what the professionals yous to do there testing.

[GGMM]

hello intederminate,

Thank you for your reply
Yes, I can get a VT35 for 10€ on an ad site.
This seems to be sufficient for my tests.
This will be much better than having fun testing with a resistance between phase and ground to test the circuit breaker, and without risk of taking an electrocution.  LOL

cdt

[Jimmy Electron]

  Hi.

 Just to clarify, in English, the 'differential' which you refer to is known as a 'Residual Current Device' (RCD).

 They function by comparing the current flow between the phase line and Neutral. Whenever there is deviation in current flow which passes the RCD's rating (i.e. 30mA), then the device will trip and make an open circuit.

 I've never seen an RCD installed in reverse however condidering that the device is only measuring Line + Neutral, and no Earth, then I suppose it will still function fine.

 When you measure between the RCD and Earth, then you will redirect some of the current from one line of the RCD and it will trip if it passes 30mA.
 The RCD will not be damaged in such conditions.


 Hope this helps

 

[tooki]

I wanted to know if anyone has used this type of device to test their electrical installation.
https://www.distrimesure.com/fr/217-testeurs-et-controleurs-de-disjoncteurs-differentiels

Indeed, I accidentally failed a plug without ground, and I wonder if my differential breaker still works well.
It is necessary to know that in France the counters are changed and I wonder if phase and neutral would not have been reversed.
Some says it's the same with connexions inverted?
I say this because I made a mistake by 2 times connecting my multimeter which was actually in ohmmeter position between ground and phase. A beautiful spark, but no disjunction.
I wonder if we can cause the disjunction by connecting a resistance between phase and ground. But what is the rule of calculation for this one for 30ma for example. I think that these small devices do only that in circuit breaker test. (?)

Good after for 30 euros, it can always be used.
Your opinions.
cdt

I also can't quite figure out everything you're saying in the original post.

But basically, to test an RCD, yes, you just use a resistor between line and ground. In fact, that is precisely what the test button on the RCD itself does! So you really don't need an external tester to do basic testing of the RCD. Just press the test button and see if it breaks the circuit.

The formula is just Ohm's law: I = V/R. Or more usefully here, R = V/I.

230V/30mA = 7. 667 kΩ

So you'd choose the next-lowest standard resistor value, so 7.5 kΩ.

As a proof, 230V/7.5 kΩ = 30.67 mA

Perfect!

If you wanted to characterize the RCD a bit better, you might use a few values to make sure it's sensitive enough but not more sensitive than it is supposed to be.

What the better testers do that you cannot do easily is testing how fast it reacts.

A very simple tester like that VT35 doesn't tell you much more than the built-in test button.

They function by comparing the current flow between the phase line and Neutral. Whenever there is deviation in current flow which passes the RCD's rating (i.e. 30mA), then the device will trip and make an open circuit.

Just to be clearer, it's not a "deviation" in total current passing through the RCD (the total current can rise and fall how it wants) that trips it, it's the size of any imbalance in current between the line and neutral.

[themadhippy]

I've never seen an RCD installed in reverse however condidering that the device is only measuring Line + Neutral, and no Earth, then I suppose it will still function fine.

If you mean reverse polarity then yes they will work regardless,however if you mean getting the input and output swapped then it all depends on the device.
 As for socket testers im waiting to test drive the new megger MPCC230,it sits between the basic plug in testers and a full multi function tester,Certainly looks like it could be a useful bit of kit.

[robert.rozee]

I made a mistake by 2 times connecting my multimeter which was actually in ohmmeter position between ground and phase. A beautiful spark, but no disjunction.

please do NOT do this to your multimeter again   


cheers,
rob   :-)

[Jimmy Electron]

Just to be clearer, it's not a "deviation" in total current passing through the RCD (the total current can rise and fall how it wants) that trips it, it's the size of any imbalance in current between the line and neutral.

 Perhaps it could have been worded clearer however the RCD works when the same current (within it's rating) flows in the Line and Neutral conductors. If more than the devices rated trip current, on either leg, goes to Earth, then that current has 'deviated' from it's intended path.

[GGMM]

re,
Thanks for your answers.

In fact I just watched the installation on the electrical board.
We will consider that it is an old board because the house dates from 1987 and maybe the NF C15-100 standard did not exist?
Indeed I see that the board is made only of fuses (well I knew it), and that the only circuit breaker is an EDF circuit breaker at the head of line of 500MA. !!!      It's DANGEROUS!!
There is no 30MA circuit breaker on the electrical board!
It’s so cold to know that I’ve been living like this ever since!
Tomorrow I think to contact an electrician  for a quotation  to install at least a differential 30MA and can be replace fuses with switches.
Short re-over / change the electrical board.

cdt

[themadhippy]

when the same current (within it's rating) flows in the Line and Neutral conductors. If more than the devices rated trip current, on either leg, goes to Earth, then that current has 'deviated' from it's intended path

Its not only a fault to earth that will trip,its any imbalance,like using the neutral from a different circuit.

[TimFox]

The easiest English word to use here is "difference", where the current flowing in one conductor minus the current flowing in the other conductor should show a difference of zero (or damn close), paying attention to the polarity of the transformer or other sensor.

[GGMM]

re,
I understand that the circuit breaker will act on a difference of current.
But in my case, I am protected on this old installation only by a circuit breaker of 500MA, since there is no circuit breaker 30MA.
So I have to change the installation.

here an example the effect of current intensity on the human body


cdt

[tooki]

re,
I understand that the circuit breaker will act on a difference of current.
But in my case, I am protected on this old installation only by a circuit breaker of 500MA, since there is no circuit breaker 30MA.
So I have to change the installation.

In English, the term "circuit breaker" means specifically and exclusively an overcurrent protection device. An RCD is not considered a circuit breaker (though devices exist that combine both functions).

French wiki says:

Dans le langage courant, et notamment lorsque l'on parle de l'équipement d'un tableau de répartition électrique, les disjoncteurs différentiels sont simplement appelés « différentiels », alors que le terme « disjoncteur » est réservé aux disjoncteurs électro-magnétiques.

Thus:
disjoncteur = disjoncteur électro-magnétique = circuit breaker
differentiel = disjoncteur différentiel = dispositif différentiel à courant résiduel (DDR) = RCD (also known as GFCI in North America)


Also, mA is not the same as MA. mA = milliamp (1/1000th of an amp), MA = megaamp (1 million amps).
I'll assume you actually mean milliamps.

So are you saying that right now, the circuit is protected by a 500mA RCD? That certainly, um, isn't for protecting human life!

[TimFox]

It doesn't matter if you use "m" or "M", so long as you are sincere.

[tooki]

It doesn't matter if you use "m" or "M", so long as you are sincere.

In which case I'd be extremely concerned about a home breaker panel equipped with a 500,000,000 amp RCD!

[TimFox]

It doesn't matter if you use "m" or "M", so long as you are sincere.

In which case I'd be extremely concerned about a home breaker panel equipped with a 500,000,000 amp RCD!

It won't fail.