Tektronix TDS 684C won't boot Front panel all LEDs Lit up only

[Armadillo]

" is available and stable, clean, no glitches right into the reset pin of the processor a

[denimdragon]

Never seen that before. Must be failing very early in init. Could be the bootrom or some sort or I/O failure.
I would start by checking the address and data lines to the EEPROM which holds the boot code.

These doesn't have the long EEPROM like the older models. I think it's the square type. I only see two ICs with the typed numbers on the A11 one is 163-1112-00 and the other is 163-0693-00.

" is available and stable, clean, no glitches right into the reset pin of the processor a

This board doesn't appear to have the same processor. For sure, it's in a different location than my 744A A11 board.

[Armadillo]

This board doesn't appear to have the same processor. For sure, it's in a different location than my 744A A11 board.

Don't it have a Q3 collector?

[denimdragon]

Don't it have a Q3 collector?

Ah Haa. I thought I might be on the right path. I'll check there soon as I get home 

Pardon my ignorance.  This is the first time I've had to troubleshoot this indepthly. I'm learning a lot as I go and I really appreciate all the help guys.

[denimdragon]

I got it going again. It appears by console port building wasn't as rock solid as I thought. I had to touch up one wire that wiggled loose. I ran the "i" command once I got it going. Does any of this look familiar?

-> i


  NAME        ENTRY       TID    PRI   STATUS      PC       SP     ERRNO  DELAY

---------- ------------ -------- --- ---------- -------- -------- ------- -----

tExcTask   _excTask      5ffca24   0 PEND        50575ec  5ffc98c       0     0

tLogTask   _logTask      5ffa124   0 PEND        50575ec  5ffa088       0     0

tShell     _shell        5ff6540   1 READY       50297fc  5ff6208       0     0

gpibIHTask _gpibIHTask   5fe8c50   4 PEND        50575ec  5fe8bd0       0     0

fifoTask   _fifoTask     5ffe020   9 READY       502547c  5ffdfd4       0     0

causeEnable_causeEnable  5fffcd0  10 PEND        50575ec  5fffc40       0     0

rtcTicker  _dateTimeQue  5feca04  51 DELAY       501ac22  5fec9b8       0    44

priority_no_priority_no  5fe9fb4  60 PEND        502547c  5fe9f70       0     0

grun Reboot_rebootGrun   5fe45fc  65 PEND        502547c  5fe45b4       0     0

GPIB monito_GpibMonitor  5fe82f0  68 PEND        502547c  5fe8288       0     0

GPIB reboot52032cc       5fe79b0  68 PEND        502547c  5fe7960       0     0

trigStatus _trigStatusQ  5fed3a0  69 DELAY       501ac22  5fed360       0     8

GPIB parser_Grun         5fe7070  70 PEND        502547c  5fe6cec  3d0001     0

V main     _main         5ff2fc4 100 PEND        502547c  5ff2f28  3d0002     0

calThread3 _calRunner    5fff2fc 102 PEND        502547c  5fff2bc       0     0

calThread2 _calRunner    5ff0724 102 PEND        502547c  5ff06e4       0     0

calThread1 _calRunner    5fef5f8 102 PEND        502547c  5fef5b8       0     0

calThread0 _calRunner    5fee4cc 102 PEND        502547c  5fee48c       0     0

evalProcess_eval_loop    5feb6a0 120 PEND        502547c  5feb660  3d0002     0

value = 0 = 0x0

-> scopeErrorLogDumpToConsole

Scope Error Log Contents:
 WED APR 04 15:22:59 2007  ERROR: 250 mass storage error, READ_FAIL [46,0,28,0,1,2,12,1b,ff]-> [40,20,20,28,0,3,2]
TUE APR 10 18:11:37 2007  ERROR: 250 mass storage error, READ_FAIL [46,4,0,1,1,2,12,1b,ff]-> [44,20,20,0,1,11,2]
TUE APR 10 18:14:08 2007  ERROR: 250 mass storage error, FORMAT_FAIL [4d,4,2,12,6c,f6]-> [44,0,0,f6,2,1,2]
value = 0 = 0x0

->

[Armadillo]

But the time keeper chip is also aging, I think already passed its time, could be a suspect. Swop one in if all else failed.

Ehm!, time keeper was my initial suspect [I reckon batt low to coup with the comm speed for calibration].

[denimdragon]

But the time keeper chip is also aging, I think already passed its time, could be a suspect. Swop one in if all else failed.

Ehm!, time keeper was my initial suspect [I reckon batt low to coup with the comm speed for calibration].

You mean the 2007 log entries? Also this 684C has a HD. I think it might have been replaced when Compaq computers owned it and the log was never cleared.

@Jwalling - I also tried to reconnect the HD board and when I did, the 7 segment went crazy on me. I unplugged the board and it booted fine with the console port attached. I'm still at square one but at least I can talk to the scope again.

I also ran SPC again, and once again, the scope passed with no issues. This scope is great when it boots properly. I have to figure this out. I have til the 11th before school starts, thanks to Harvey (one good thing came out of it). I'm hoping I can get it going by then.

[denimdragon]

I also have something else I need to understand if anyone knows. Why does the scope boot consistently when the console port is attached but won't but boots rarely when the serpar board (RS232) is attached. My simple logic makes me think that the serpar board is the issue unless I'm missing something 

[Jwalling]

I also have something else I need to understand if anyone knows. Why does the scope boot consistently when the console port is attached but won't but boots rarely when the serpar board (RS232) is attached. My simple logic makes me think that the serpar board is the issue unless I'm missing something 

If it always boots with the serial/parallel port board disconnected, I'd just leave it disconnected. Do you really need that interface?

[denimdragon]

If it always boots with the serial/parallel port board disconnected, I'd just leave it disconnected. Do you really need that interface?

I think that's what I'll end up doing, but I'll have to keep the console port adapter plugged in and keep it attached to one of my computers with serial console running. That's the only way it functions properly. Over time as I learn more, I will fix it little by little. And I can learn more about the code side of these machines.

Last concern, running it like this won't be an issue as long as it passes calibration and SPC right? If not, I'm going to start putting it back together and setting it up in it's own little area. I need to get started on changing the relays on the 744A anyways as I can learn more because that scopes component layout is closer to the 520 schematic. That's another thread.

Thanks everybody for the help and as I figure out the problem, I will post back here. I have some consistency now at least 

[Jwalling]

I think that's what I'll end up doing, but I'll have to keep the console port adapter plugged in and keep it attached to one of my computers with serial console running. That's the only way it functions properly.

 

So you're saying all these conditions must be met before the scope will always boot?:
1. Option 13 must be disconnected.
2. Console port must be connected.
3. The console port must be connected to a PC.
4. The PC must be running a terminal program.

[denimdragon]

 

So you're saying all these conditions must be met before the scope will always boot?:
1. Option 13 must be disconnected.
2. Console port must be connected.
3. The console port must be connected to a PC.
4. The PC must be running a terminal program.

Yes sir. I also just found out that my large selection knob is non-functional. I wonder if this is the culprit?

[denimdragon]

Ok, so I reseated the bus board that connects the options board to A11. I boots up now, but gets hung on the JAVA splash screen.

1. Serial Console port is not open on laptop
2. Scope is still connected to laptop
3. Just opened serial console on my laptop and scope boots up from splash screen

So now:

1. Console port must be connected.
2. The console port must be connected to a PC.
3. The PC must be running a terminal program.

I'm also getting the weird "+~+" again. It did show this with the hard drive disconnected:


CMCIA: option card with 1 controller detected at address 0x3000000

Checking for fixed  ATA Disk.

PCMCIA: Media Detected: 3255017472 Byte Disk

FLOPPY: Detected


Adding 5994 symbols for standalone.


#RESOURCES: MEMREQ=0x0: WAIT=1:

ld < hd0:/app/tdsrte1/logo.bin

value = 100483072 = 0x5fd4000

jplogosetup()


dlsym:error,symbol splashScreen not found in symbol space 100489392

value = 0 = 0x0


CPU: 68EC040.  Processor #0.

Memory Size: 0x1000000.  BSP version 1.0.


Executing Diagnostics

-> e
 +~+   Dsy Wfm1 mem size
 +~+   Dsy Text0 mem size
  Dsy Text1 mem size
  Acq number of digitizers
  Acq mem size
  Cpu timer interval uSec
  Cpu Dram size
  NvRam mem size
  Opt Math Package presence
  Opt RS232/ Cent presence
  Opt 1M presence
  Acq Intlv Cal Id presence
  Opt TvTrig presence
  Opt TvTrig index
  Dsy color presence
  Opt floppy drive presence
  Opt hard drive presence
  Acq limited bandwidth presence
  Acq number of user channels
dspForcedBus ................... pass
cpuDiagD2MiscReg ............... pass
cpuDiagDSPIntMaskReg ........... pass
cpuDiagDsyAccess ............... +~+  pass
dsp68kMemTest .................. pass
cpuDiagFIFOMem ................. pass
dspRunVerify ................... pass
dspBusRequestTest .............. pass
dspImplicitBusAccess ........... pass
dspTristarMemTest .............. pass
dsyRastModeV0Walk .............. +~+  pass
dsyRastModeV1Attrib ............ +~+  pass
dsyWaitClock ................... +~+  pass
cpuDiagAllInts ................. pass
nvLibrariansDiag ............... pass
calLibrarianDefaultCk .......... pass
checkIfCalFailed ............... pass
dspForcedBus ................... pass
acqProcThermistor .............. pass
digRegisterDiag ................ pass
digAcqMemDataDiag .............. pass
digAcqMemAddrDiag .............. pass
trigGtlRegisterDiag ............ pass
trigBtlRegisterDiag ............ pass
ch1EdgeTrigDiag ................ pass
lineTrigDiag ................... pass
dlyTrigDBTRunsAfter ............ pass
slewrateTrigDiag ............... pass
trigAttenSerialReg ............. pass
trigPreampSerialReg ............ pass
trigDTCSerialReg ............... pass
trigExtlSerialReg .............. pass
trigDacSerialReg ............... pass
TICountersDiag ................. pass
gtlBigCountersDiag ............. pass
trigBtlConfidenceDiag .......... pass
glitchTrigDiag ................. pass
pulseWidthDiag ................. pass
digRegisterDiag ................ pass
fpDiagConf ..................... pass
optDiagPM110Reg ................ pass
optDiagFloppyCacheMem .......... pass
optDiagFloppyControllerIO ...... pass
optDiagFloppyDrive ............. pass
optRS232DuartIO ................ UNTESTED
optRS232DuartIntLoop ........... UNTESTED
optCentronCntrlReg ............. UNTESTED
optTv8bitRegDiag ............... UNTESTED
optTvShiftRegDiag .............. UNTESTED
optTvXparentCodes .............. UNTESTED
optTvDontCareCodes ............. UNTESTED
optTvEdgeAndLevel .............. UNTESTED
optTvSyncLevels ................ UNTESTED
Executing Smalltalk

hwAccountant probe routines
  Probe for unexpected pending ints
  Dsp Instr mem size
  Dsp D2 mem size
  Dsp D1 mem size
  Dsy Vect0 mem size
  Dsy Vect1 mem size
  Dsy Wfm0 mem size
 +~+   Dsy Wfm1 mem size
 +~+   Dsy Text0 mem size
  Dsy Text1 mem size
  Acq number of digitizers
  Acq mem size
  Cpu timer interval uSec
  Cpu Dram size
  NvRam mem size
  Opt Math Package presence
  Opt RS232/ Cent presence
  Opt 1M presence
  Acq Intlv Cal Id presence
  Opt TvTrig presence
  Opt TvTrig index
  Dsy color presence
  Opt floppy drive presence
  Opt hard drive presence
  Acq limited bandwidth presence
  Acq number of user channels
can't open input 'fd0:/startup.bat'

  errno = 0x13 (S_errno_ENODEV)

taskSpawn ("javastart",200,0x0,40000,sysExecScript,"hd0:/app/tdsrte1/RTE1.BAT")

value = 100239728 = 0x5f98970



Smalltalk/V Sun Version 1.12

Copyright (C) 1990 Object Technology International Inc.

# TDS RTE1.1 startup file.

nulldev = open("/null",3,0666)

new symbol "nulldev" added to symbol table.

nulldev = 0x5f8ff10: value = 5 = 0x5

taskSpawn "Redirect",250,0,0x4000,ioGlobalStdSet,1,nulldev

value = 100203852 = 0x5f8fd4c


ld < hd0:/app/tdsrte1/java68k.o

0x5f7f13c (sysScriptExec): Apps General Purpose Event Queue not registered in this system

0x5f7f13c (sysScriptExec): Apps Variable Event Queue not registered in this system

[denimdragon]

And why in the world can't I find the User Manual for the 684C? All I'm trying to figure out is if I can use these LeCroy PP006A with it (500MHz, Passive, 12pF). I believe I can but I want to make sure because Lecroy is a bit foreign to me right now. I guess I could look up the probes compensation range. It's only 2pF difference but, I like to be certain (which usually gets me going down a rabbit hole  ).

*Also probe compensation fails on the LeCroy probe, which is understandable, but it also fails on my P6139A Tek probe.

[Jwalling]

 

So you're saying all these conditions must be met before the scope will always boot?:
1. Option 13 must be disconnected.
2. Console port must be connected.
3. The console port must be connected to a PC.
4. The PC must be running a terminal program.

Yes sir.

That is really strange. Only thing I can think of guess is that when the console port is connected, it might slow down the boot process.

I also just found out that my large selection knob is non-functional. I wonder if this is the culprit?

No.

[andy2000]

 

So you're saying all these conditions must be met before the scope will always boot?:
1. Option 13 must be disconnected.
2. Console port must be connected.
3. The console port must be connected to a PC.
4. The PC must be running a terminal program.

Yes sir. I also just found out that my large selection knob is non-functional. I wonder if this is the culprit?

That implies the scope is waiting for some kind of response from the terminal at some point in the boot process.  What if you monitor the output of the console port without connecting the scope's RX pin?  You might be able to see precisely where it hangs. 

I'd also look for problems around the console port and it's associated parts.  Maybe there's a missing, or bad pull up resistor, or some other odd problem.

A problem with the knob wouldn't cause it to not boot, but it might have a common cause.

[Jwalling]

The scope should boot fine if you disconnect the front panel board, although it will log the error. So I doubt that the front panel is the problem. What about the LED display?

LED display was showing "_" then "8,6(?)" alternating.

Going through this thread again after some 5 years or so. Since then, I have seen that exact failure a few times - each time I saw that alternating 6,8 pattern, it was a bad DS1486. Replacing it corrected the problem.