Author Topic: QFN IC Chip Will Not Desolder  (Read 7957 times)

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Offline SnechoTopic starter

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Re: QFN IC Chip Will Not Desolder
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2021, 06:42:47 am »
I think he needs a better hot air station.  I never crank up mine that high and I only once needed a preheater but that was an extreme situation.  I have seen videos of people unboxing and trying cheap (under 200 dollar) Chinese hot air stations and they were struggling with things my old OKI does in less then 10 seconds.

nowadays $200 is the realm of 1KW Quick 861DW, even HCT-1000 is half the power at 10x the price
Yeah! I was just looking at the Quick 861DW a couple days ago
The hot air rework station I'm using is the X-Tronic 6020-PRO-X
I got it because I didn't want to get a cheap no-name $50 one from Amazon

well, you didnt want it, yet thats precisely what you got :( Your "station" is just a fancy digital triac controller regulating power to the same heater hand piece used in all those $30 hotairs, with integrated pissant fan.
You know, unfortunately this is pretty much what I've been thinking to myself these past few days
Yes that could work, again just seems odd no one else doing this repair has used a form of preheating

thermal mass - your station is pushing less hot air
technique - nozzle size and shape, distance, angle, airflow - those are as important as the temperature set

Stop looking at all the temperature figures thrown around, or the one on your station, those numbers are all meaningless. The only thing that matters is the temperature at the component you are trying to desolder and surrounding PCB, and nobody is measuring that.
This all makes a lot of sense. especially the thermal mass. Does that mean I should be looking at the Air Flow and Air Volume measurements on the stations? I also think this may be related to the difference between units with the blower in the handle, and units with the blower in the main box, as Microdoser is about to point out

 seems odd that not one person in the half dozen videos I've seen uses a preheater or something to heat the board from below, and yet they always successfully remove the chip 🤔

...

 I got a soldering shipment in, and now have Chip-Quik Tack Flux. The kind that comes in a syringe.

Yes, that's the sort of flux I know, I've never used the white stuff.

Regarding your hot air station, they are not made equal and generally come in two types. The sort that has the blower in the handle and the sort that has it in the main box. The handle blower type don't seem nearly as able as the other type, especially with difficult chips. Sorry to say it, but for the money, IMO you could have got a much better hot air station. The Atten ST-862D is the one I have, and I have not found any chip it cannot remove and rework.

Also, as has been said, the nozzle you have on the end affects things greatly.

A few years back, hot air stations were a lot of money, to the point where it was noted that the price dropped from ~$850 to $300



A little while later, that price dropped again



To compare handle blower types to integrated blower types, by someone who doesn't have years of specialist experience (also with a hot air station more in the price range of your station):



In the last video, he has some strong words to say about the handle blower type of hot air station...
You know, I was waiting if someone was going to mention the difference between the fan in the handle type and the fan in the main box type that blows through the entire tube to the air gun. It seems like all the "proper" hot air stations are the fan-in-main-box type. Perhaps I should return the one I have and get one of those...

It's a shame really. I really like the look, feel, and compactness of this one. Especially the side-mounted air gun holster. Too bad it's just lacking in performance 😔

Many thanks for the informative videos on the subject. I'll take a look at them
I see a lot of posts trying to say blah blah blah cheap hot air stations.  How many have used the unit TS is using? I regularly use the the same hot air station he's working with it and I can say from experience its perfectly fine to do this job. @ $150 for a solid built hot air gun and iron, Its an excellent unit for any hobbyist. I highly recommend it. I never liked handle blowers before but the one in this unit is quiet and works very well. Its one of the reason I've been using this machine over some of my more expensive units.  Both iron and air gun heats up quickly and accurately. My only gripe is the unit itself is a bit light on the back end and the irons cable is too short.
Perhaps there was some miscommunication? Mine is the 6020 model. It doesn't have a soldering iron, only hot air

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Update

I was able to desolder the IC 🙂

I used a combination of various suggestions given here. I pre-heated the bottom of the board using the hot air station without a nozzle for a couple minutes. Then I flipped the board over and hit the chip with 450C with the hot air gun. It still wasn't budging, so I ran my soldering iron around across all the pads a few times, and was able to "flick" the chip off the board. It was the thermal pad, it was being a real b**** to work with

The flux worked pretty well, and similar to in the videos. Evaporated kind of quick though

Now comes the terrifying part: soldering the new chip. I don't even know if I want to attempt it with this hot air station. Even my soldering iron has trouble with the thermal pad. The solder hardens instantly on it, and has almost no chance to flow, unless I use a huge flat tip

Looks like no ripped pads though
« Last Edit: June 30, 2021, 06:52:14 am by Snecho »
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Offline wasyoungonce

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Re: QFN IC Chip Will Not Desolder
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2021, 07:49:07 am »
Ok I didn't know it was thermal pad.......usually I lift all the legs using enamelled wire and iron/flux.   

Then dremel grind away the top of the package till I see the copper layer.  Its obvious why you lift the legs.   Be careful of the tool slipping off.  I start at the centre work outwards.    Its a copper base around 1/2 mm above the thermal pad when you see it you'll know.   Then hit this with std iron......it'll lift off what's left 'easily and quickly

Old Skool stuff....works for me. I just know I'll be howled down....hahaha   They are a head damn to do!

But, well done to remove it no damage!  There must have been thermal vias under possibly a thermal pad and vias.

My Method......FWIW ;)
« Last Edit: June 30, 2021, 07:55:23 am by wasyoungonce »
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Offline PA4TIM

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Re: QFN IC Chip Will Not Desolder
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2021, 08:39:18 am »
That is why they make wide flat tips. The priniple is simple, you can compare it with electronics. You have a PSU (the solder iron heater)  and a load (the thing you want to solder.  The trick is to optimise everything in between for the lowest resistance so your PSU can deliver the max current. That starts with the best suited connector, thick wires etc. In case of soldering you need to optimise the heat resistance for a max heat transfer from element to component/PCB.

When it comes to PSUs everybody understands that the input power is not the same as the output. That is why they state something like 0 to 30V and max 10A and a max of 300W if you can draw 10A at 30V. Some PSUs can not deliver max current at max voltage so it is important to state that to in that case.

Soldering is the same, only they state x degrees output and y Watt output. The problem is cheap stations often state the max input power, not the output. And that isd the trap. The heat-resistance from element to tip or from element to air must be as low as possible so all the heating power can transfer to the component/PCB. This is something you can not see. Two stations that look the same can haver a totally different resistance. If you place a nail as heating element in a hotair station it can not transfer much air and has a hard time not to cool down by the airflow. If you make a big element in such a way that a very small bit of air sees a lot of heater surface (and total the air sees a lot more surface as with the nail), the air gets hotter and the element has no hard time staying hot.

For an iron there is an extra step, the tip must be optimised so the element can transfer as much heat as possible to the tip. This is upto the designer (or Chinese copier  >:D ) to optimise by dimensions and types of material.

Like we want our PSU to deliver a stabile precise voltage  to the output, we want a stable temperature. If the PSU delivers a lot of current we need to use sense wires to compensate the voltage drop caused by the resistance of the wires to the load. In case of soldering you need to measure the temperature as close to the tip as possible. For hot air this is extra important because the amount of air cools the heater more or less. So 300 degrees at max airflow needs a lot more power to the element as when airflow is minimum. A good station controls that. No matter the amount of air, the airtemp at the nozzle will be constant. This makes the construction more complex and expensive.  If your station is set at X degrees at y liter/min, this should come out of the nozzle (Often measured/defined as Z cm from the nozzle. If the design is poor the output will be lower as the display states

The 3rd thing is the heat-resistance between tip/nozzle and component. For hot air the design, other than the nozzle shape/size it does not matter. It is the same for every station. You have X temp at Y airflow at the end of the nozzle (you hope the same as what the display shows). Only you can optimise it in this last phase by things like the right distance and nozzle size (so experience/skills)
For the solder iron it is the shape and size of the tip. The tip is like the buffer caps of the powersupply, it is a sort of heat reservoir
A big massive tip needs more time to heat up but also is able to bridge the time the station need to keep the tip at the set temp. And the station needs enough peak power to follow the heat loss of the tip. The thing you are soldering is trying to cool down the tip. That is why the design is important. But also skills. You need to choose a tip that is as large as possible for the situation. A big tab needs a big tip, a tiny little pin needs a tiny tip. And the right shape. A massive pencil shaped (conical) tip can not transfer much heat to a flat surface. here a big flat tip works best. A big flat tip does not do much if you want to heat up a round connector pin. It is not doable to have optimuized tips for every situation (that is why the best brands have a huge selection off tips (like 100 different shapes and sizes)

The last step is solder, the function of a "blub" of solder on the tip is there to match the tip shape to the shape you are soldering. It fills the gap and so improves heat transfer from tip to component. Does solder not melt, just add solder to the tip when it is touching the componernt/pcb or old solder joint and fill the gap, and then add more to solder the part.

Flux is something that is inside good solderwire and you can add some. The prime function is not a better heat transfer, it is there to clean the surfaces of dirt and oxide. The result is that the solder flows nice around the component/via/pad and so makes a good joint. No-clean flux gets activated by the heat and after that stops eating a way the metal. Other flux need to be removed because it does not stop eating away pins, vias and traces.

A solderjoint made with bad solder or a to cold iron does not flow and often only attaces to the component pin but not to the via/pad. They look like a ball (convex)watching from aside. A good joint looks hollow (concave)
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Offline Rasz

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Re: QFN IC Chip Will Not Desolder
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2021, 09:06:45 am »
I used a combination of various suggestions given here. I pre-heated the bottom of the board using the hot air station without a nozzle for a couple minutes. Then I flipped the board over and hit the chip with 450C with the hot air gun. It still wasn't budging, so I ran my soldering iron around across all the pads a few times, and was able to "flick" the chip off the board. It was the thermal pad, it was being a real b**** to work with

sounds precarious

The flux worked pretty well, and similar to in the videos. Evaporated kind of quick though

low quality flux or temp too high.
With low quality equipment you end up compensating by bumping temperature all the way up, risking burning stuff.

Now comes the terrifying part: soldering the new chip. I don't even know if I want to attempt it with this hot air station. Even my soldering iron has trouble with the thermal pad. The solder hardens instantly on it, and has almost no chance to flow, unless I use a huge flat tip

huge flat tip is what you should use, even/especially when working with small smd. Small needle shaped tips are a scam shipping as the default on all cheap soldering irons for some unknown reason, great for soldering headphone wire and not much else. Bigger tip means bigger contact surface and bigger thermal mass.

I love my X-Tronic soldering iron

you probably can guess what comes next :)
X-Tronic uses ancient Hakko 900M tip clone designs https://www.xtronicusa.com/X-TRONIC-900M-SOLDERING-TIP-ASSORTMENT-1020-9-TIPS-p16408314
https://www.xtronicusa.com/products/soldering-stations-parts/3010-XTS-Soldering-Station-&-Parts-c60141106 shows they even slap that brand on unregulated mains powered garbage, not a good sign
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Offline SoundTech-LG

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Re: QFN IC Chip Will Not Desolder
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2021, 02:18:36 pm »
The next step is to remove all traces of the (likely) unleaded solder. Then, using leaded solder place the tiniest possible blob on the thermal pad. Smooth it out some without adding any more solder. If you like, touch each pad with some leaded solder (not too much). I usually hold the part in orientation with my exacto blade as I apply the heat to melt it down altogether. Good luck to you.
 
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Offline narkeleptk

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Re: QFN IC Chip Will Not Desolder
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2021, 01:29:17 am »
Regarding your hot air station, they are not made equal and generally come in two types. The sort that has the blower in the handle and the sort that has it in the main box. The handle blower type don't seem nearly as able as the other type, especially with difficult chips. Sorry to say it, but for the money, IMO you could have got a much better hot air station. The Atten ST-862D is the one I have, and I have not found any chip it cannot remove and rework.


I see a lot of posts trying to say blah blah blah cheap hot air stations.  How many have used the unit TS is using? I regularly use the the same hot air station he's working with it and I can say from experience its perfectly fine to do this job. @ $150 for a solid built hot air gun and iron, Its an excellent unit for any hobbyist. I highly recommend it. I never liked handle blowers before but the one in this unit is quiet and works very well. Its one of the reason I've been using this machine over some of my more expensive units.  Both iron and air gun heats up quickly and accurately. My only gripe is the unit itself is a bit light on the back end and the irons cable is too short.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias

Nonsense. I buy so many different tools and equipment for my work I could care less about trying to spew nonsense about junk tools. The fact is the tool works good, its a decent price for what it is and imo its a great choice for a hobbyist or someone just starting out in repairs. Are there better more expensive tools? Sure, no argument there, and at some point its a smart move to invest in yourself/career but they are not required to do rework efficiently and definently not worth it for someone who only tinkers here and there.



Perhaps there was some miscommunication? Mine is the 6020 model. It doesn't have a soldering iron, only hot air

Oh? Well, I take back what I been saying then. I thought you had the 6040-pro-x. which is a much better value. Don't think I would have supported the idea of paying 150 for just the 6020 when you could have gotten the 6040 for about the same price.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2021, 01:39:46 am by narkeleptk »
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: QFN IC Chip Will Not Desolder
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2021, 04:50:59 am »
I see a lot of posts trying to say blah blah blah cheap hot air stations.  How many have used the unit TS is using? I regularly use the the same hot air station he's working with it and I can say from experience its perfectly fine to do this job.

so perfect it cant do this job

@ $150 for a solid built hot air gun and iron, Its an excellent unit for any hobbyist. I highly recommend it.

Nonsense. I buy so many different tools and equipment for my work I could care less about trying to spew nonsense about junk tools.

yet here we are

The fact is the tool works good, its a decent price for what it is and imo its a great choice for a hobbyist or someone just starting out in repairs.

I thought you had the 6040-pro-x. which is a much better value. Don't think I would have supported the idea of paying 150 for just the 6020 when you could have gotten the 6040 for about the same price.

6040 is same junk, just in different package. The reason why it cant touch anything with a ground plane is

>Hot Air Gun Volume: 31 L/M

Air works exactly as "good" as any other $30 858 clone https://www.amazon.com/Rework-Solder-Station-Soldering-Welding/dp/B07Y7ZCVT2/
Soldering iron is of the ancient 900M tip design. 6040 is pretty much this $40 https://www.amazon.com/FEITA-Station-Digital-Soldering-Nozzles/dp/B07ZJQHDJ7 or $60 https://www.amazon.com/CO-Z-Upgraded-Soldering-Electric-Temperature/dp/B077GS9DQM in arguably nicer looking package with blue leds to make it look more expensive

even this $30 toy https://www.amazon.com/Soldering-Function-Adjustable-Temperature-Ergonomic/dp/B08NDH4Q2T/ is in entirely different galactic when it comes to quality of soldering. And if you dont like hacks at $100 you can buy reputable brand product https://www.amazon.com/Weller-WE1010NA-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B077JDGY1J/

tldr: not a "great choice", doesnt work all that good, and is a terrible value.
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Offline narkeleptk

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Re: QFN IC Chip Will Not Desolder
« Reply #32 on: July 02, 2021, 03:04:10 pm »
You make some good points and have a convincing opinion, If I had never used the tool I may be incline to believe you. However I have used the tool personally and I do not have any issue's with it at all. Its a solid unit as is a few of the other xtronic units I have. I do ecu repair  and remove countless ic's with thermal pads large and small WHILE still attached to the aluminum cases, it should have handled the TS job no problem. I lean more to lack of experience. I have used hakko and I have used some of the cheap knock offs your comparing to. It definently performs better then the cheaper units and the QC looks to have been much better on the ones I have opened up. The iron on it works very well for me but I generally use good tips which helps quite a bit. I have never tried the quick so I cant compare with that one unfortunately. 
« Last Edit: July 03, 2021, 03:17:37 pm by narkeleptk »
 
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Offline SnechoTopic starter

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Re: QFN IC Chip Will Not Desolder
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2021, 02:14:22 am »
Ok I didn't know it was thermal pad.......usually I lift all the legs using enamelled wire and iron/flux.   

Then dremel grind away the top of the package till I see the copper layer.  Its obvious why you lift the legs.   Be careful of the tool slipping off.  I start at the centre work outwards.    Its a copper base around 1/2 mm above the thermal pad when you see it you'll know.   Then hit this with std iron......it'll lift off what's left 'easily and quickly

Old Skool stuff....works for me. I just know I'll be howled down....hahaha   They are a head damn to do!

But, well done to remove it no damage!  There must have been thermal vias under possibly a thermal pad and vias.

My Method......FWIW ;)


Thanks!

Funnily enough, the prior heat melted away part of the top of the chip, so using the soldering iron on the copper base inside is exactly what I did as well

That is why they make wide flat tips. The priniple is simple, you can compare it with electronics. You have a PSU (the solder iron heater)  and a load (the thing you want to solder.  The trick is to optimise everything in between for the lowest resistance so your PSU can deliver the max current. That starts with the best suited connector, thick wires etc. In case of soldering you need to optimise the heat resistance for a max heat transfer from element to component/PCB.

When it comes to PSUs everybody understands that the input power is not the same as the output. That is why they state something like 0 to 30V and max 10A and a max of 300W if you can draw 10A at 30V. Some PSUs can not deliver max current at max voltage so it is important to state that to in that case.

Soldering is the same, only they state x degrees output and y Watt output. The problem is cheap stations often state the max input power, not the output. And that isd the trap. The heat-resistance from element to tip or from element to air must be as low as possible so all the heating power can transfer to the component/PCB. This is something you can not see. Two stations that look the same can haver a totally different resistance. If you place a nail as heating element in a hotair station it can not transfer much air and has a hard time not to cool down by the airflow. If you make a big element in such a way that a very small bit of air sees a lot of heater surface (and total the air sees a lot more surface as with the nail), the air gets hotter and the element has no hard time staying hot.

For an iron there is an extra step, the tip must be optimised so the element can transfer as much heat as possible to the tip. This is upto the designer (or Chinese copier  >:D ) to optimise by dimensions and types of material.

Like we want our PSU to deliver a stabile precise voltage  to the output, we want a stable temperature. If the PSU delivers a lot of current we need to use sense wires to compensate the voltage drop caused by the resistance of the wires to the load. In case of soldering you need to measure the temperature as close to the tip as possible. For hot air this is extra important because the amount of air cools the heater more or less. So 300 degrees at max airflow needs a lot more power to the element as when airflow is minimum. A good station controls that. No matter the amount of air, the airtemp at the nozzle will be constant. This makes the construction more complex and expensive.  If your station is set at X degrees at y liter/min, this should come out of the nozzle (Often measured/defined as Z cm from the nozzle. If the design is poor the output will be lower as the display states

The 3rd thing is the heat-resistance between tip/nozzle and component. For hot air the design, other than the nozzle shape/size it does not matter. It is the same for every station. You have X temp at Y airflow at the end of the nozzle (you hope the same as what the display shows). Only you can optimise it in this last phase by things like the right distance and nozzle size (so experience/skills)
For the solder iron it is the shape and size of the tip. The tip is like the buffer caps of the powersupply, it is a sort of heat reservoir
A big massive tip needs more time to heat up but also is able to bridge the time the station need to keep the tip at the set temp. And the station needs enough peak power to follow the heat loss of the tip. The thing you are soldering is trying to cool down the tip. That is why the design is important. But also skills. You need to choose a tip that is as large as possible for the situation. A big tab needs a big tip, a tiny little pin needs a tiny tip. And the right shape. A massive pencil shaped (conical) tip can not transfer much heat to a flat surface. here a big flat tip works best. A big flat tip does not do much if you want to heat up a round connector pin. It is not doable to have optimuized tips for every situation (that is why the best brands have a huge selection off tips (like 100 different shapes and sizes)

The last step is solder, the function of a "blub" of solder on the tip is there to match the tip shape to the shape you are soldering. It fills the gap and so improves heat transfer from tip to component. Does solder not melt, just add solder to the tip when it is touching the componernt/pcb or old solder joint and fill the gap, and then add more to solder the part.

Flux is something that is inside good solderwire and you can add some. The prime function is not a better heat transfer, it is there to clean the surfaces of dirt and oxide. The result is that the solder flows nice around the component/via/pad and so makes a good joint. No-clean flux gets activated by the heat and after that stops eating a way the metal. Other flux need to be removed because it does not stop eating away pins, vias and traces.

A solderjoint made with bad solder or a to cold iron does not flow and often only attaces to the component pin but not to the via/pad. They look like a ball (convex)watching from aside. A good joint looks hollow (concave)


Wow, that really helps put things into perspective for me. Especially the basic physics and thermodynamics behind Power vs. Heater Element vs. Airflow, and the soldering iron tip acting as a heat reservoir. Many thanks

 
I used a combination of various suggestions given here. I pre-heated the bottom of the board using the hot air station without a nozzle for a couple minutes. Then I flipped the board over and hit the chip with 450C with the hot air gun. It still wasn't budging, so I ran my soldering iron around across all the pads a few times, and was able to "flick" the chip off the board. It was the thermal pad, it was being a real b**** to work with


sounds precarious


Indeed it does. Is why perhaps I need a better hot sir station

The flux worked pretty well, and similar to in the videos. Evaporated kind of quick though


low quality flux or temp too high.
With low quality equipment you end up compensating by bumping temperature all the way up, risking burning stuff.


Perhaps. I'm sure I will gain more insight as I do more work and purchase different fluxes

Now comes the terrifying part: soldering the new chip. I don't even know if I want to attempt it with this hot air station. Even my soldering iron has trouble with the thermal pad. The solder hardens instantly on it, and has almost no chance to flow, unless I use a huge flat tip


huge flat tip is what you should use, even/especially when working with small smd. Small needle shaped tips are a scam shipping as the default on all cheap soldering irons for some unknown reason, great for soldering headphone wire and not much else. Bigger tip means bigger contact surface and bigger thermal mass.

I love my X-Tronic soldering iron


you probably can guess what comes next :)
X-Tronic uses ancient Hakko 900M tip clone designs [url]https://www.xtronicusa.com/X-TRONIC-900M-SOLDERING-TIP-ASSORTMENT-1020-9-TIPS-p16408314[/url]
[url]https://www.xtronicusa.com/products/soldering-stations-parts/3010-XTS-Soldering-Station-&-Parts-c60141106[/url] shows they even slap that brand on unregulated mains powered garbage, not a good sign


I do love my soldering iron for it's simplicity and ease of use. It, with it's default conical tip has served me perfectly throughout the years up to this point for everyday household repairs, tinkering, and all of my projects

I do think however I will use a bigger tip for this job, or parts of this job

I am curious though, why do you consider the 900M tips/tip system bad?

All in all, I do appreciable the feedback

The next step is to remove all traces of the (likely) unleaded solder. Then, using leaded solder place the tiniest possible blob on the thermal pad. Smooth it out some without adding any more solder. If you like, touch each pad with some leaded solder (not too much). I usually hold the part in orientation with my exacto blade as I apply the heat to melt it down altogether. Good luck to you.


Yup, I already cleaned all the pads with wick and alcohol. That picture was taken immediately after the chip was removed. I do plan on adding leaded solder to all the pads prior to soldering the new chip

Many thanks for the best wishes

Perhaps there was some miscommunication? Mine is the 6020 model. It doesn't have a soldering iron, only hot air

Oh? Well, I take back what I been saying then. I thought you had the 6040-pro-x. which is a much better value. Don't think I would have supported the idea of paying 150 for just the 6020 when you could have gotten the 6040 for about the same price.


I originally bought the 6020 simply because I already had an X-Tronic soldering iron

I see a lot of posts trying to say blah blah blah cheap hot air stations.  How many have used the unit TS is using? I regularly use the the same hot air station he's working with it and I can say from experience its perfectly fine to do this job.


so perfect it cant do this job

@ $150 for a solid built hot air gun and iron, Its an excellent unit for any hobbyist. I highly recommend it.

Nonsense. I buy so many different tools and equipment for my work I could care less about trying to spew nonsense about junk tools.


yet here we are

The fact is the tool works good, its a decent price for what it is and imo its a great choice for a hobbyist or someone just starting out in repairs.

I thought you had the 6040-pro-x. which is a much better value. Don't think I would have supported the idea of paying 150 for just the 6020 when you could have gotten the 6040 for about the same price.


6040 is same junk, just in different package. The reason why it cant touch anything with a ground plane is

>Hot Air Gun Volume: 31 L/M

Air works exactly as "good" as any other $30 858 clone [url]https://www.amazon.com/Rework-Solder-Station-Soldering-Welding/dp/B07Y7ZCVT2/[/url]
Soldering iron is of the ancient 900M tip design. 6040 is pretty much this $40 [url]https://www.amazon.com/FEITA-Station-Digital-Soldering-Nozzles/dp/B07ZJQHDJ7[/url] or $60 [url]https://www.amazon.com/CO-Z-Upgraded-Soldering-Electric-Temperature/dp/B077GS9DQM[/url] in arguably nicer looking package with blue leds to make it look more expensive

even this $30 toy [url]https://www.amazon.com/Soldering-Function-Adjustable-Temperature-Ergonomic/dp/B08NDH4Q2T/[/url] is in entirely different galactic when it comes to quality of soldering. And if you dont like hacks at $100 you can buy reputable brand product [url]https://www.amazon.com/Weller-WE1010NA-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B077JDGY1J/[/url]

tldr: not a "great choice", doesnt work all that good, and is a terrible value.


You make some good points and have a convincing opinion, If I had never used the tool I may be incline to believe you. However I have used the tool personally and I do not have any issue's with it at all. Its a solid unit as is a few of the other xtronic units I have. I do ecu repair  and remove countless ic's with thermal pads large and small WHILE still attached to the aluminum cases, it should have handled the TS job no problem. I lean more to lack of experience. I have used hakko and I have used some of the cheap knock offs your comparing to. It definently preforms better then the cheaper units and the QC looks to have been much better on the ones I have opened up. The iron on it works very well for me but I generally use good tips which helps quite a bit. I have never tried the quick so I cant compare with that one unfortunately.


So I have a question to ask the forum if I may. As has been repeatedly brought up and discussed as seen above, it seems like my X-Tronic handle type blower hot air station is less then stellar

The question is, what station should I upgrade to, as I plan on doing more of this exact repair in the near future, and am still within the return window

Personally, it seems like the "proper" ones are ones with the blower inside the main box unit, as I had thought in the back of my mind since pretty much the beginning. Therefore, I was looking at the Quick 861DW:

https://www.amazon.com/Quick-861DW-Digital-Station-Display/dp/B00EID23J6/ref=asc_df_B00EID23J6/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241999416883&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18285797718921536960&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9014246&hvtargid=pla-571390859655&psc=1

And the seemingly comparable X-Tronic 4020-PRO-X:

https://xtronicusa.com/products/hot-air-rework-stations-parts/X-Tronic-4020-PRO-X-%E2%80%A2-Platinum-Series-%E2%80%A2-1000-Watt-%E2%80%A2-Hot-Air-Digital-Rework-Station-with-Patented-Nozzle-Holder-%E2%80%A2-4-Temp-Presets-Temp-Calibration-C-F-Auto-Cool-Down-&-Mute-Unmute-Sound-Features-p294696106
« Last Edit: July 03, 2021, 02:17:09 am by Snecho »
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Offline Microdoser

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Re: QFN IC Chip Will Not Desolder
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2021, 12:06:06 pm »

I am curious though, why do you consider the 900M tips/tip system bad?

It is the same issue as with the hot air station. They both make plenty of heat, but the way that heat is delivered reduces the effectiveness of the unit.

The 900M has a central heater core that the tip fits over, meaning the generated heat has to travel up the tip to the workpiece. When dealing with parts that have a high thermal mass, or which conduct heat away strongly, this can lead to the tip becoming cooler requiring the iron to be set to a very high level just to continue working.

The other style of soldering iron has the heating element actually inside the tip itself, and so can deliver the heat to the workpiece far more efficiently. This allows you to have your iron set to a much lower temperature and still effectively melt the solder, which in turn reduces the chance of damaging either the components around the work area or the component you are trying to attach/remove.

I would not personally call them bad, I worked with that system for many years with no real problems, it's just that the new system with the embedded heating element in the tip is far better.

At around £50, the TS100 is a good entry level iron if you wanted to shift to that system. It can also fit the tips from the more expensive Hakko FX-951, although you would need to 3D print a handle extension as those tips are much longer.

Dave did a video showing the difference.


 
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Offline narkeleptk

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Re: QFN IC Chip Will Not Desolder
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2021, 02:31:04 pm »

And the seemingly comparable X-Tronic 4020-PRO-X:


I was looking at that one compared to the quick the other day. Its only half the air volume so I would not call it comparable. If your going pony up the dough then its looking like quick is the better choice there for sure.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2021, 02:34:14 pm by narkeleptk »
 
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Offline Microdoser

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Re: QFN IC Chip Will Not Desolder
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2021, 03:44:25 pm »

And the seemingly comparable X-Tronic 4020-PRO-X:


I was looking at that one compared to the quick the other day. Its only half the air volume so I would not call it comparable. If your going pony up the dough then its looking like quick is the better choice there for sure.

And if you watch the video I posted above which directly compares the Quick to the Atten ST-862D then you will see the Atten is just as good as the Quick (if not better), but half the price. The money you save could be spent on getting extra nozzles and a decent soldering iron of the heating element tip style.
 
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Offline Rasz

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Re: QFN IC Chip Will Not Desolder
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2021, 06:49:38 pm »
And if you watch the video I posted above which directly compares the Quick to the Atten ST-862D then you will see the Atten is just as good as the Quick (if not better), but half the price.

that would make it $150, where?
861DW is <$300
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Offline Microdoser

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Re: QFN IC Chip Will Not Desolder
« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2021, 09:54:02 pm »
And if you watch the video I posted above which directly compares the Quick to the Atten ST-862D then you will see the Atten is just as good as the Quick (if not better), but half the price.

that would make it $150, where?
861DW is <$300

My mistake, the Quick was less than half the price of the Hakko FR810 and the Atten is $50-$100 cheaper than the Quick for the same function, possibly better.
 
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