Dead BRYMEN BM869S

[trifaze]

After two years of little use, my Brymen gave up. I can say that this is my most expensive and also the first multimeter to break down. I use it as a desktop multimeter and it has never left the workshop and is still like new. Yesterday when I wanted to use it, something like Initflr was written on the display. I assumed the problem was in the empty battery and I replaced it with a new Varta long life battery. When I assembled and turned on the instrument, it read initflr on the display again, but now with the familiar smell of burnt pcb. I quickly removed the protective rubber again and unscrewed the battery cover and disconnected it. The battery was super hot. I was very shocked because I did not expect something like that. I first checked the invoice and the date of purchase and of course my warranty has already expired. Then there was nothing left but to open the multimeter and inspect the damage. Fortunately, the problem is visible from the plane. tantalum capacitor in short circuit. I removed the faulty capacitor and turned on the instrument, thankfully it also works without a capacitor. Unfortunately, part of the printed circuit board and housing is damaged and a little modification will be required to install a new capacitor. I would ask you if anyone can tell me what is the value of this capacitor C102. and what do you advise me whether to replace all the tantalum capacitors in the instrument or am I the only one with such luck with such a malfunction.
Greetings Michael

[bob91343]

It's not an important functional part of the unit, probably just a hedge against EMI.  I would suggest put in whatever capacitance is available in a similar size with a suitable voltage rating.  It's probably directly across the battery.

[floobydust]

From other pics, C102 was a 33uF 16V tantalum like 293D336X9016B2 not sure of case code guessing B or 1411 metric 3528. They will short if they see reverse or excess voltage and sometimes they do simply fail.
If the batteries were in backwards, I'm not sure what a Brymen does. I would just replace the cap if warranty is not there.

In other pics, looks like U10 is maybe a 3.0V LDO SMD marking C2K SOT89-3 S-812C30AUA-C2K but with extra adjust resistors R84, R85 which did not make sense, markings 77D and 850? The output cap C84 is 100uF 6V tant so a bit strange the circuit.

[rsjsouza]

Michael, I suspect that, if you write to Brymen explaining your story and send them serial number and place/date of purchase, you might get their attention and perhaps even something more tangible (a new cover perhaps?).

They tend to be very attentive to customer service (I had received some spare parts for my BM857 in the past) and accurate reliability/endurance reports are something that every decent manufacturer appreciates. They may try to do good with your misfortune.

[cortex_m0]

In other pics, looks like U10 is maybe a 3.0V LDO SMD marking C2K SOT89-3 S-812C30AUA-C2K but with extra adjust resistors R84, R85 which did not make sense, markings 77D and 850? The output cap C84 is 100uF 6V tant so a bit strange the circuit.

Markings in OP's photos appear to be 77D (619 k\$\Omega\$) and 85C (75 k\$\Omega\$). However, that S-812 regulator family does not appear to be adjustable, so any resistor divider there would seem out of place.

[floobydust]

Lucky there was no fire, no idea what plastics the button panel is. It should go back to HQ for them to meditate upon adding a polyfuse, or some mention if reverse polarity batteries are a problem. This is why I looked at the LDO circuit, it has a hard clamp diode for reverse polarity- so OP likely just had a tantalum failure, if they try to push back the cause as user error.

Annoying that Brymen uses a black topped LDO that OP has. It protects such amazing IP of the SOT89   The other pics showed smd marking code "C2K" which I believe is the S-812,  datasheet Fig. 22 shows you can add resistors, really why bother here when you can just order the part with voltage you want.

One year warranty, no right to repair, so what do you do with them? Who/where is "customer service" in North America?
I have no idea if a Brymen is repairable outside of warranty. How can you order new plastic for the melted portion, but you need a part number.
Or paying shipping to get a high repair estimate or "bin it" kind of response, would just hurt more.

[bdunham7]

One year warranty, no right to repair, so what do you do with them? Who/where is "customer service" in North America?

Greenlee is the distributor for Brymen (branded Greenlee) in the US, not sure about the rest of NA.  They offer a lifetime warranty, most likely service by replacement.

Actual Brymen-branded meters in the US are more or less 'grey market', if that term means anything anymore.

[floobydust]

Greenlee sells under their own as DM-860A so why would they acknowledge an 869S support request? It ain't their baby.
Everytime I try to figure out how Brymen sales and support work, it's way convoluted and their North American showing is just terrible.
I've read TME Atlanta, head office in Poland, you pay shipping both ways and God knows if it's Euro or American return policy etc.

OP, I would contact whomever you purchased the meter from, for support. I don't know if Brymen directly would be interested, because they don't know what is a defect verses damage from misuse.

[rsjsouza]

As I mentioned before, years ago Brymen sent me parts for my pre-production BM857 bought NOS from eBay in the United States: a broken tilting bale stand and support plastics. I don't know how they would do today, but I suspect they would be interested in the failure report.

[floobydust]

Did you mean Brymen Taiwan? They have no business address on their website http://www.brymen.com
I figured as an OEM they didn't want to deal with end customers, it's the dealers role?
But OP's failure is worthy of them taking a look.

[bdunham7]

Greenlee sells under their own as DM-860A so why would they acknowledge an 869S support request? It ain't their baby.

That's my point.  Brymen's US distribution is through Greenlee, so there is no support system in place for people who do an end run around it and buy Brymen-branded meters from unauthorized distributors or import them directly.  I don't expect Greenlee to service or support a Brymen-branded unit.  And I can't fault Brymen for not offering support directly when they don't have any authorized sales channels in the US.  Whatever help they do provide is nice, but I would have low expectations.

[floobydust]

Something is wrong if no one wants to pick them up in North America.
Weird, I stumbled on to "sample bill of lading" of Brymen multimeter shipments to Fluke  might explain it.

Looking ahead, these multimeters have so many features now, a lot of firmware that isn't perfect. I ain't shipping to Australia for an F/W update, that that must cost a fortune.

[perieanuo]

In other pics, looks like U10 is maybe a 3.0V LDO SMD marking C2K SOT89-3 S-812C30AUA-C2K but with extra adjust resistors R84, R85 which did not make sense, markings 77D and 850? The output cap C84 is 100uF 6V tant so a bit strange the circuit.

Markings in OP's photos appear to be 77D (619 k\$\Omega\$) and 85C (75 k\$\Omega\$). However, that S-812 regulator family does not appear to be adjustable, so any resistor divider there would seem out of place.

hi
you don't need an adjustable regulator in order to play with the regulator gnd using 2 resistors and getting another desired regulated voltage
the old 7805 can be used like this

[bdunham7]

Something is wrong if no one wants to pick them up in North America.
Weird, I stumbled on to "sample bill of lading" of Brymen multimeter shipments to Fluke  might explain it.

Their contracts with other parties like Greenlee may make it so that they are not available to be picked up.  Other OEMs seem to have similar arrangements with companies like BK Precision. 

If that bill of lading is legit, perhaps there is something else going on.  Brymen being an OEM for Fluke's non-US-made DMMs, or perhaps the boards for a US-assembled-from-global-parts DMM, would be interesting but not all that unusual of an arrangement.  I doubt Fluke is going to put a yellow holster on an existing Brymen product and give it a Fluke model number.

[floobydust]

Brymen supplying Fluke, it just explains all the nonsense for North America.

What I've encountered is you don't get exclusivity from an OEM unless you agree to certain volumes of orders and regions. A contract has a period, from yearly to a few years and if you don't meet the obligations, the sales numbers, the OEM is free to dump you and roam. No OEM wants to be locked into supplying one customer.
Unfortunately, the problem is the IP, the OEM owns it. It's actually a terrible situation because back in the day a corporation would go through the pain of product development and end up owning their IP.
With MBA's globalism and outsourcing, conglomerates just want to pick up the phone and have some OEM company build stuff for them. It's an easier, faster way to profit, in theory. But the OEM - what IP do you let Greenlee (Emerson) have verses Fluke (Danaher/Fortive), they are competitors.  They'll learn the hard way that this is a bad idea.

I would guess Fluke has some protection for their North American multimeter market in the contract, whereas Brymen can invade if the deal falls through. It's a dangerous deal IMHO. Looks like a container of 1,500 multimeters every month, the container ship and route look legit.

perieanuo, the BM789S uses no cheeseball resistors at the LDO GND pin S-812C "C2P" but is 3.5V part and only 10uF caps. BM869S uses "C2K" 3.0V part plus resistors to get 3.6V so I guess they run off around 3.6V. One runs off 9V, the other 4.5V batteries.
OP only posted once, we don't know what happened for his poor BM869S.

[bdunham7]

Brymen supplying Fluke, it just explains all the nonsense for North America.
Unfortunately, the problem is the IP, the OEM owns it. It's actually a terrible situation because back in the day a corporation would go through the pain of product development and end up owning their IP.

My best guess is that Brymen is OEMing some of the Amprobe line.  1500 units doesn't seem like a lot, so maybe it's just one or a few models.  Or maybe there are more than what you see.

As for IP, there are no hard and fast rules as to who owns what.  Sometimes it is a US company just wanting a ready-made product with their name on the front, other times they already have the product designed and perhaps in production, but they either want additional or lower cost production somewhere else.  Or, anywhere in between.  There may not be as much hard IP in these specific products as you might think--likely just the firmware and some design aspects.  The parts inside may have their own IP rights attached, but that isn't affected by who makes the meter.

It's very possible that Brymen's relationship with Fluke may have little or nothing to do with the rest of the NA market.  It also looks like Brymen is supplying Greenlee, Fluke and Astro.

https://www.importgenius.com/suppliers/brymen-technology-corporation

EDIT:  It appears that Brymen is OEM for some of the Amprobe and Fluke branded clamp meters--and has been for over a decade.

[Monkeh]

EDIT:  It appears that Brymen is OEM for some of the Amprobe and Fluke branded clamp meters--and has been for over a decade.

Where is your god now, Fluke fanboys?

[floobydust]

We all know Fluke is but a shadow of the legend, Fortive just milks the brand name. I see Metek and Brymen supplying Fluke in Everett, and Fluke doing diddly-squat for product development so it begs the question what they are today. The shipments' HTS is for complete multimeters, not sub-assemblies. For Brymen to be locked out of North America, that's a huge market and it must be contractual.

You wouldn't use Brymen as a contract-manufacturer, that's like Ford getting Chevy Taiwan to build their cars lol. Fluke, Brymen should be competitors... Multimeters are the usual PC board stuffing which can be done anywhere by anyone, then a lot of labour assembling the rotary switch, enclosure, test etc.  I suspect Fluke just does final test and calibration of some products now, enough for that old game Product of USA, Assembled in USA etc.

I don't think it went well for Dave with the 121GW because you don't have the source code, Brymen holds that IP which is enough that you will not make a multimeter without them, or even debug it, and it's on their terms. The point with owning the IP is you own the ability to make a product or it's next generation.

[bdunham7]

We all know Fluke is but a shadow of the legend, Fortive just milks the brand name. I see Metek and Brymen supplying Fluke in Everett, and Fluke doing diddly-squat for product development so it begs the question what they are today...I suspect Fluke just does final test and calibration of some products now, enough for that old game Product of USA, Assembled in USA etc.

I think you are overlooking Flukes catalog of products which is larger and more sophisticated than ever due to product development and some timely acquisitions.  Handheld general-purpose meters under $500 isn't the focus of their product development--and why would it be?  It's no secret that the lower end Fluke handhelds have been made outside the US now for some time--some by companies that are fully or partially owned by Fluke, some by OEMs like the ones you mention.  And I'm sure they aren't doing any final assembly or calibration on these--they're going to want anything under $500 to arrive boxed and ready to sell.  Here's one of the products that Metek ships to Fluke.  Is it reasonable to expect them to design and manufacture this in the US?

https://www.rewonline.com/restaurant-equipment-new/Comark-Fluke-C48-Thermometer-Thermocouple/COF-C48.html

[floobydust]

Last I'd looked at Fluke, the markup is too high and the tech is bland. It was thermal imaging cameras and I went with the Flirs, for corporate use.

Fluke multimeters are unparalleled for quality but Fortive abandoned development. The 87V-MAX is quite the embarrassment to roll out, instead of putting it on a diet they fattened it up, price included at $520 USD. It is a nothing burger, a revamp of an old product.
Either you're in the game or not. Old Fluke developed thin-film resistors, custom multimeter silicon, new functions, new features, innovation - decades ago. All of which you must have to be competitive. Even the $500-league product R&D has benefits to the entire company but intangible as far as 'management by numbers' so the beancounters are against it.
Farming it out to a company in Taiwan means you're using the same DMM chip as everybody else, with the same core features as everybody else.

Today's business model, buy something from china put your name brand on it, sell for profit - you have no engineering base, no IP that you own, decimate local manufacturing and employment, your supply chain is extremely fragile, and managing quality issues becomes the central preoccupation.
I don't expect low-end gear possible to be made in USA, but the evil temptation to get bits and pieces of your high-end products done in low-end town, is very great. The 87 plastics were USA injection molded and top quality. Do you expect that today? Did the price come down when the input jack plastics got offshored? Na, it's all about returning value to shareholders.