Anyone here saponify motherboards ?

[PKTKS]

Question related to most cost effective cleaning solution
for motherboards (ATX or large form factor)

As the size impacts UltraSonic cleaners available volume and
required amount of chemicals - products to saponify are
cheaper - however vast amounts of water are really a problem

May be using a dry oven or related products - some folks
have been using windows/glass cleaners  alcohol based

Any experience or advice much appreciated as
the goal is a cost effective solution for volume considerations

Thanks
Paul

[Psi]

So others don't have to look it up

Saponify = Turn (fat or oil) into soap by reaction with an alkali.

[PKTKS]

Thanks for the reply

My goals are even humble...

I will be glad to know about any solution (cost/effective)
acting just like mild water based soap...  or detergent like

Already seen several advices (and videos) but never
a good advice about "THE SOLUTION" ... itself
... expensive chemicals would defeat the goal...

PROs and CONs and post procedures welcome too

Paul

[ace1903]

I have got several old PCs and decided to reuse them.
Used soapy hot water to immerse boards and stir a bit.
Then washed boards with tap water under pressure.
Lastly immersed boards in demineralised water (since tap water is really hard-contains lot of minerals).
Waited one day boards to be completely dry, changed several capacitors and installed in the housing.
All of them worked several years. No ultrasound no special cleaning solutions.
Just remove cooler from processor and CMOS battery and start cleaning.

[soldar]

So others don't have to look it up

Saponify = Turn (fat or oil) into soap by reaction with an alkali.

That is where the word "soap" comes from. 

I have no idea or advice about what the OP is trying to do but It is good to understand the difference between soaps and detergents. I am sure Wikipedia is a good start. Generally you would prefer a detergent to a soap because detergents leave less residue.

[PKTKS]

So others don't have to look it up

Saponify = Turn (fat or oil) into soap by reaction with an alkali.

I have no idea or advice about what the OP is trying to do but It is good to understand the difference between soaps and detergents.
(..)

Some videos about "soaping" (residue removal) helps.
so far some videos but no one put specifics about the chemicals.

and they do make impact on performance results and cost/effective

[soldar]

I am going to guess they are using detergent and not soap even though they may say "soap". many people might use them interchangeably even though they are different things.

If I had to guess I would start out with some mild shampoo or dishwasher detergent and make sure to rinse it well so all detergent is removed.

E.T.A.: Seeing the OP is in Brazil I have a feeling "saponify motherboards" might just mean "wash motherboards".

[eKretz]

Yeah I have washed plenty of circuit boards just like described above. Dish soap soak then gentle scrub followed by rinse. Final rinse with DI/RO water then gently blast with compressed air to remove bulk water and dry either a couple days at room temp or elevated temp for shorter period.

[Bud]

I once read someone recommended for manual cleaning  a multipurpose cleaner called Spray  Nine. I tried on a board that used no-clean flux and it worked. Do not know if it cleans rosin flux. If you heed to just wash you boards vs clean the flux then i think it should do. It gets foamy when brushed so may not be suitable for ultrasonic cleaning.

[coromonadalix]

ATRON AC 205      mixed at 5%  in water  ...   spray it on the board(s), rince with hot water and dry it (them)  with an hair dryer ....

[george.b]

Brazilian here. OP most likely meant "ensaboar", which doesn't mean "to saponify" ("saponificar", in Portuguese), but "to lather" (with soap, specifically).

And yeah, I have washed circuit boards with soap before, with good results. Mild dish washing soap, to be precise. Just make sure to rinse it well and that the board has thoroughly dried out before powering on again.

[Gyro]

'Dish soap' is an awkward confusing term. The stuff that comes in a plastic squeeze bottle, is a detergent, not a soap. I'm not sure what is used in different countries.

Detergents and soaps are 'opposites' (or so it was described at school)... If you cause a detergent to foam (bubble bath is also a detergent) then adding a soap will collapse the bubbles. Likewise, if you lather a soap, then adding a detergent will collapse the bubbles.

[TERRA Operative]

We used to use ordinary dish washing detergent in the sink at work to clean welder control boards, followed by a good (but careful) drying with compressed air.

Revived a lot of boards that went bad due to dirt, grease and iron filing build up typical of a metalworking shop.

[PKTKS]

(..)
E.T.A.: Seeing the OP is in Brazil I have a feeling "saponify motherboards" might just mean "wash motherboards".

Thanks for all info..  but the term came directly from the videos
i've seen  as guidelines. They really use this term and it is
not a "cultural"  related translation problem (in which translations
frequently fall as being bad terms).

My question is direct related to these problems:
- What kind of  product (my guess is "detergent") is cost/effective
- For sure I would never use any other diluent besides distilled (demineralized) water
- Proportions of a proper cost/effective solution
- proper dry method - among compressed air/ dry oven or even IPA immersion

So far I have not seen a proper confident guideline as to
replace the expensive (due high volume) IPA UltraSonic method.

The term itself  is frequently used in some videos explaining the "method"
But complete lack of the proper chemicals ...

The trusty confident method still fallbacks to the IPA
 or more expensive brand solutions.
Paul

[soldar]

The term itself  is frequently used in some videos explaining the "method"

What videos? Can you link to some? Are they native English speakers?

[PKTKS]

Yes  they are all native english speakers.

But I have long ditched the URLs  because
some time passed in between my youtube search
and my concerns about cost/effective solutions for
UltraSonic.

I could enter some re-search but I doubt I would
remember which video does what if so.

Most videos really are about soldering and BGA stuff
no one cares about that details not even mention
what solution and proportion...

details that in real world most matters.

A bottle of commercial solution may be even cheaper
but in large volume bath repeatedly we need to make
some math in long run to see which one is best.

I don't even have a "SOLUTION" proportion or
even the chemical to start..

back to first square.
Paul

[soldar]

Yes  they are all native english speakers.

I find that strange. The word, as has been explained, means something else and, in any case, most native English speakers do not know the meaning anyway. Not that it matters but I think you may be misremembering.

[george.b]

Yes  they are all native english speakers.

I find that strange. The word, as has been explained, means something else and, in any case, most native English speakers do not know the meaning anyway. Not that it matters but I think you may be misremembering.

Agreed. "To saponify" means, quite literally, to turn into soap. A motherboard-based soap would be something strange indeed.

[forrestc]

Agreed. "To saponify" means, quite literally, to turn into soap. A motherboard-based soap would be something strange indeed.

In the electronics industry, typical cleaners/solvents to remove rosin-based fluxes is (or includes) a saponifier, which converts the rosin to soap so it can be rinsed off.   See Kester 5768 as an example.    Otherwise, you end up leaving the sticky rosin mess on the board.   Depending on the exact flux in use in the process, sometimes a saponifier is needed, other times not.    For example, water-cleanable fluxes do not need a saponifier at all, but due to their nature *must* be cleaned.    Generally, you can find a recommended chemical on the solder or flux manufacturer's datasheet.

Using a saponifier to clean previously clean boards that haven't been re-worked probably isn't necessary.   However, if this is a re-work application, you need to find a chemical that will actually remove whatever you are using on the board during re-work.

For ultrasonic cleaning in rework, Branson EC (electronics cleaner) seems to be the preferred chemical since it's pretty much universal.   If you search for Branson EC on youtube, you'll find lots of people discussing on how to mix it.   You don't need much.

[mengfei]

a few friends of mine just used Liquid detergent on their non-working mobo's & some of them did work again!

[dzseki]

When I had a few dirty boards I simply put them in the dishwasher, it was OK... 

[soldar]

In the electronics industry, typical cleaners/solvents to remove rosin-based fluxes is (or includes) a saponifier, which converts the rosin to soap so it can be rinsed off. 

Thanks. That is very interesting. So we are not talking of just generally cleaning an old, dirty board but of removing rosin residue after rework. Very different things.

[PKTKS]

(..)
For ultrasonic cleaning in rework, Branson EC (electronics cleaner) seems to be the preferred chemical since it's pretty much universal.   If you search for Branson EC on youtube, you'll find lots of people discussing on how to mix it.   You don't need much.

Very good explanation.

BRANSON is indeed the best option.
Unfortunately legislation here for chemical import is beyond insanity.

Adding that a higher VOLUME (like form factors greater or equal ATX)
would turn the cost/effective questionable.

But with not doubt BRANSON EC line is the best choice

Thanx
Paul

[TERRA Operative]

When I had a few dirty boards I simply put them in the dishwasher, it was OK... 

My brother recently purchased a benchtop dishwasher to wash his prototype and small production run PCB's after reflow.
I'll ask how it's working for him.

[PKTKS]

I think detergent would be a good general term
but dish washers lack the "cavitation" of UltraSonics
Far less effective

And I could not resist to post extra comment:

- Actually: I don't care about the word used - really
- I think a lawyer would happily waste (lot) time on this
- I only care about having cost/effective guidelines.
- ditch the words to the proper potty.

well probably other folks thinks that line is best as well

More results...
much less fuss and words - that amuse lawyers 

Paul