When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?

[nctnico]

In summer I get 305-315 Wh/mile, in winter, 340-350 though winters here are reasonably mild.  By the way, ICEs also see winter efficiency loss but people don't seem to care

People don't have to care because it doesn't affect the range so much and filling up only takes a few minutes anyway. The latter is very nice during the winter. Imagine standing here for 20 minutes or more while waiting for your car to charge when it is freezing with a strong wind:

For the owner I hope the heating also works during charging on an EV.
By the way: I've never seen these charging stations in use so the car in the picture is probably lost or photoshopped into the picture.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Cooling is a very small hit on range, maybe a percent or two.

Lol, no way! Who are you trying to fool? 1..2% of 15..20 kWh/100km is 150..400 watts ! What A/C is that? To the Tesla fanboys: take it easy. Your cars are cool. No need to lie.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Well...an average summer high temp of 73F in Seattle and a low of 36F in January is wee bit different to an average summer high of 90F and January low of 30F in central North Carolina. I'm surprised the A/C is even on

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Not in Texas or Miami that's for sure :-)

[Kjelt]

In the summer the AC will be a factor.
In the winter the electrical heater will be a factor, no combustion no hot motor coolingwater to heat the interior 

[DougSpindler]

I'm curious and couldn't find any useful information online - what's the hit on range for an EV if you take a 3-hour trip in the southern US in the middle of the summer while running the A/C (typically 100% of the time)? Or heating the car in the depths of winter in the mid-West?

I saw a post from someone.  In the cold there's a 10 to 15% decrease in range due to batteries being cold.  With the heater running subtract another 5 to 12%.  No sure about air-conditioning.  I suspect it would be about the same or a little more.

[DougSpindler]

Not according to Tesla owners.  They have to make multiple stops for that trips and they can be screwed if there’s an accident or road work with a detour.

Evidence? Doug doesn't need no pesky evidence. 

There is ample evidence, if you would just read it.

[phil from seattle]

Well...an average summer high temp of 73F in Seattle and a low of 36F in January is wee bit different to an average summer high of 90F and January low of 30F in central North Carolina. I'm surprised the A/C is even on

There is still solar gain and cars get plenty hot inside. Today the high was 68F, my car hit 95F inside while parked for an hour in the sun. AC is always on when it's above about 60F outside.

[phil from seattle]

I'm curious and couldn't find any useful information online - what's the hit on range for an EV if you take a 3-hour trip in the southern US in the middle of the summer while running the A/C (typically 100% of the time)? Or heating the car in the depths of winter in the mid-West?

An A/C eats a few kW times 3h say 9kWh at least which is about 50km of range at hypermiling speeds.

You keep making stuff up.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Well...an average summer high temp of 73F in Seattle and a low of 36F in January is wee bit different to an average summer high of 90F and January low of 30F in central North Carolina. I'm surprised the A/C is even on

There is still solar gain and cars get plenty hot inside. Today the high was 68F, my car hit 95F inside while parked for an hour in the sun. AC is always on when it's above about 60F outside.

I must say that's a hard pill to swallow. I lived half my life in a climate every bit as miserable as the northwestern US (yes, England) and I never once came across a car with AC. On those rare balmy days in August every other 5th year, you might wind (with a handle) your windows down but that's about it. Did you emigrate from the North Pole and drive a double-glazed greenhouse on wheels?

[boffin]

My experience so far (I've only had the eGolf  6 weeks now).

AC and heating appear to eat about 2kw, which means given I have about 220km range normally, or about 2 hrs at highway speeds on a 35kWh battery, It would mean with the heater or AC on, I'd drop to a 31kWh battery, and lose about 12% range.  I can live with that.

Having the car automatically set the temperature before you go to work and come home is pretty damn awesome.  This time of year theres not much to do in the morning, but in the evening having the AC auto come on before you get to is pretty cool.

[DougSpindler]

My experience so far (I've only had the eGolf  6 weeks now).

AC and heating appear to eat about 2kw, which means given I have about 220km range normally, or about 2 hrs at highway speeds on a 35kWh battery, It would mean with the heater or AC on, I'd drop to a 31kWh battery, and lose about 12% range.  I can live with that.

Having the car automatically set the temperature before you go to work and come home is pretty damn awesome.  This time of year theres not much to do in the morning, but in the evening having the AC auto come on before you get to is pretty cool.

It will be interesting to see in the winter when the batteries are colder how much your mileage will decrease. 

Your numbers are pretty much match what others are reporting. 

Now that you have a EV, will you ever buy a ICE ever again?

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

AC and heating appear to eat about 2kw, which means given I have about 220km range normally, or about 2 hrs at highway speeds on a 35kWh battery, It would mean with the heater or AC on, I'd drop to a 31kWh battery, and lose about 12% range.  I can live with that.

In a hot and humid place like say, Miami, it would be quite a bit more than 2kW, I would say al least 2x that.

[Fungus]

Imagine standing here for 20 minutes or more while waiting for your car to charge when it is freezing with a strong wind:

Yep. There's no way you could sit in the heated car watching Youtube while it's charging.

There's also no way they could build a charging station with walls in cold places - electron fumes are very dangerous if they build up in enclosed spaces.

[Fungus]

Evidence? Doug doesn't need no pesky evidence. 

There is ample evidence, if you would just read it.

It just can't be linked to for copyright reasons, right?

[Fungus]

I must say that's a hard pill to swallow. I lived half my life in a climate every bit as miserable as the northwestern US (yes, England) and I never once came across a car with AC.

Yep. That's the Brits for you.

[Fungus]

In a hot and humid place like say, Miami, it would be quite a bit more than 2kW, I would say al least 2x that.

Surely it depends on how well insulated the car is. Have you got any actual measurements?

[ahbushnell]

In a hot and humid place like say, Miami, it would be quite a bit more than 2kW, I would say al least 2x that.

Surely it depends on how well insulated the car is. Have you got any actual measurements?

Not just insulation. If you are using fresh air and that has to be cooled and it takes more energy for moist air. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[boffin]

AC and heating appear to eat about 2kw, which means given I have about 220km range normally, or about 2 hrs at highway speeds on a 35kWh battery, It would mean with the heater or AC on, I'd drop to a 31kWh battery, and lose about 12% range.  I can live with that.

In a hot and humid place like say, Miami, it would be quite a bit more than 2kW, I would say al least 2x that.

A window shaker AC that plugs into a regular outlet, that can cool a 10x10' room only uses 1200W, I'm pretty sure a 5x6' car interior will be fine using 2kW

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

A window shaker AC that plugs into a regular outlet, that can cool a 10x10' room only uses 1200W, I'm pretty sure a 5x6' car interior will be fine using 2kW

You say that because you're up there in the north in Canada. Also a car's cabin isn't like a room it's much more like a greenhouse. And cars' A/Cs have to be plenty powerful because one wants it to cool quick when the car has been parked in the sun in Texas and the cabin is at more than 55 degrees C. Then there's also hot humid places where the energy required to cool one more degree increases because turning the air's water vapour into liquid water is exothermic and robs quite a bunch of energy and leaves the evaporator wet which makes it less efficient.

[nctnico]

AC and heating appear to eat about 2kw, which means given I have about 220km range normally, or about 2 hrs at highway speeds on a 35kWh battery, It would mean with the heater or AC on, I'd drop to a 31kWh battery, and lose about 12% range.  I can live with that.

In a hot and humid place like say, Miami, it would be quite a bit more than 2kW, I would say al least 2x that.

A window shaker AC that plugs into a regular outlet, that can cool a 10x10' room only uses 1200W, I'm pretty sure a 5x6' car interior will be fine using 2kW

Wikipedia says 3kW https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_air_conditioning with a reference to a scientific report.

[DougSpindler]

Evidence? Doug doesn't need no pesky evidence. 

There is ample evidence, if you would just read it.

It just can't be linked to for copyright reasons, right?

Or you could open a browser and type “Tesla LA to SF”.  But then agin maybe you can’t.  Give it a try and try something new.  You might learn something. 

Try adding hwy 5  and hwy 101.   But don’t try Hg 1 because only way a Tesla could get from LA to SF is with a tow truck.

[mtdoc]

Wikipedia says 3kW https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_air_conditioning with a reference to a scientific report.

Ah come on now. I know you’re an engineer. That link is talking about the power required by an ICE to produce AC. An ICE is what, 20% efficient.?   
Here’s the quote: “In a modern automobile, the A/C system will use around 4 horsepower (3 kW) of the engine's power, thus increasing fuel consumption of the vehicle.”

Which just proves the point, AC will reduce an ICEs autos range as well, but in a much less efficient manner.

BTW , both my Volt and my wife’s Chrysler Pacifica PHEV, use less than 2kW to run the AC. I’ll take a screenshot next time I get a chance.

[coppice]

Aircons take energy at a rate determined by the climate and not your driving. So, a high speed motorway journey between cities doesn't use a huge amount of energy for the aircon, as the journey doesn't last long. Get stuck in traffic, and its a different story.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Wikipedia says 3kW https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_air_conditioning with a reference to a scientific report.

Ah come on now. I know you’re an engineer. That link is talking about the power required by an ICE to produce AC. An ICE is what, 20% efficient.?   
Here’s the quote: “In a modern automobile, the A/C system will use around 4 horsepower (3 kW) of the engine's power, thus increasing fuel consumption of the vehicle.”

Which just proves the point, AC will reduce an ICEs autos range as well, but in a much less efficient manner.

BTW , both my Volt and my wife’s Chrysler Pacifica PHEV, use less than 2kW to run the AC. I’ll take a screenshot next time I get a chance.

Quoting a single average power consumption for 'a modern automobile' is iffy because it probably includes large pick-ups, SUVs, vans etc.

Shouldn't comparison also include these?

1. Cabin volume
2. AC efficiency (like SEER - don't know if that's used for automotive ACs)
3. Duty cycle. i.e., for a like-to-like journey under hot conditions does an EV AC stay on longer than for a comparable ICE AC (or vice versa) to maintain the same cabin temperature