Electric Car Experiences

[coppice]

In the US VWs was on of the most popular brands of cars.  I a VW loyalist.  But then the quality of VW really started to decline.  Had two duds. They Dieselgate hit, don't think I would ever buy a VW ever again.  I just don't trust them.

Right now VW are clearly eager to get the ID3 out the door, and try to move on from dieselgate, but the whole thing seems to be turning into a farce of endless delays.

[DougSpindler]

In the US VWs was on of the most popular brands of cars.  I a VW loyalist.  But then the quality of VW really started to decline.  Had two duds. They Dieselgate hit, don't think I would ever buy a VW ever again.  I just don't trust them.

Right now VW are clearly eager to get the ID3 out the door, and try to move on from dieselgate, but the whole thing seems to be turning into a farce of endless delays.

I seem to recall VW saying around the time of Dieselgate that they wanted to be the world's biggest car company.  (Not sure where they stand now.)
And then last year the new pres of Ford said Ford wanted to be known as a technology company like Tesla.  The plan was to have VW make all of Ford's cars with the exception of the Mustang and their trucks.  That was then, wonder if that's still the plan. 

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Right now VW are clearly eager to get the ID3 out the door, and try to move on from dieselgate, but the whole thing seems to be turning into a farce of endless delays.

People want a car that's better not worse, ergo people don't want EVs.

[SilverSolder]

Right now VW are clearly eager to get the ID3 out the door, and try to move on from dieselgate, but the whole thing seems to be turning into a farce of endless delays.

People want a car that's better not worse, ergo people don't want EVs.

A plug-in hybrid is a viable option, in my view, even if you're worried about long distance performance, or performance far away from grid power.

And of course Tesla has already demonstrated that you can have insane performance from an EV, enough to destroy most (but not all!) muscle cars.

Hard to beat the sound of a V8 with a supercharger putting its heart into it, though...

[DougSpindler]

Right now VW are clearly eager to get the ID3 out the door, and try to move on from dieselgate, but the whole thing seems to be turning into a farce of endless delays.

People want a car that's better not worse, ergo people don't want EVs.

Kanka, you are such a troll.  Just a few posts ago you were telling us which electric car you wanted.  They you posted you have a mussel diesel car.  I eat mussels in my EV car.

 



 

[tom66]

The ID3 looks pretty good as a technology package.  But:

- It's pretty ugly.  The Golf Mk7 is a good looking car and Mk7.5 subtlety improved on top of this.  ID3 and Golf Mk8 look like they've been involved in a front end collision.   

- Bad idea to cap the charging rate with model.  48kWh only has 50kW charge rate but 58kWh has 100kW, arguably the 48kWh would benefit *more* from the 100kW charge rate.  The charge rate is also seriously lagging behind the competition with Model 3 at 250kW and the £22,000 MG ZS EV offers 90kW.  And e-Golf offers 45kW so basic ID3 is barely any better there.

- Steering wheel has capacitive controls.  The purpose of steering wheel controls is so that you can use them -without- looking.  Making them fully capacitive completely defeats the tactile feel here.  Big mistake IMO.  Also, you can no longer program a cruise control speed +/-1mph or +/-1km/h using the SET/RES buttons -- no idea why they deleted this!

Why did they not just offer an improved e-Golf?  People don't want a silly electric car with obnoxious "I'm electric!" styling - they just want a good car that *happens* to be electric.  That's why Model 3 and Model S sold well, and Hyundai Kona/Kia e-Niro is one of the best selling non-Tesla EVs ... they look like *regular* cars!

One of the things I really like about my GTE is that it is very understated.  It doesn't look like it has 200 hp ...

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

People want a car that's better not worse, ergo people don't want EVs.

A plug-in hybrid is a viable option, in my view, even if you're worried about long distance performance, or performance far away from grid power.

And of course Tesla has already demonstrated that you can have insane performance from an EV, enough to destroy most (but not all!) muscle cars.

Hard to beat the sound of a V8 with a supercharger putting its heart into it, though...

People don't like the price, don't like the limited range, and don't want to wait hours to recharge. They like the torque of course. I do too!

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Just a few posts ago you were telling us which electric car you wanted.

Have you seen the vidjeo? Don't you like that SUV? True leather not the synthetic rubbish. Half the price of a model X. And don't you like the swap-able battery? Fully charged in 3 minutes !!!

[DougSpindler]

People want a car that's better not worse, ergo people don't want EVs.

A plug-in hybrid is a viable option, in my view, even if you're worried about long distance performance, or performance far away from grid power.

And of course Tesla has already demonstrated that you can have insane performance from an EV, enough to destroy most (but not all!) muscle cars.

Hard to beat the sound of a V8 with a supercharger putting its heart into it, though...

People don't like the price, don't like the limited range, and don't want to wait hours to recharge. They like the torque of course. I do too!

Trolling again.  Get your facts straight.    Apparently people do like the prices and the product, that's why Tesla is not out of business.  You could also look at Tesla's stock prices and compare that to Ford, GM, VW.  People have to like something if Tesla's stock is valued as much as it is.

And here you go again with your conspiracy theories and fake facts.   It doesn't take HOURS as you say to charge a Tesla.   

Please stop with the fake and false information.

[DougSpindler]

Just a few posts ago you were telling us which electric car you wanted.

Have you seen the vidjeo? Don't you like that SUV? True leather not the synthetic rubbish. Half the price of a model X. And don't you like the swap-able battery? Fully charged in 3 minutes !!!

You just said it was hours, now you are saying three minutes.   Kanka, you are saçma.  Stop the trolling, you are ruin the posts for everyone else.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Ohh yes I bet it took @boffin hours of waiting to recharge that tiny battery every hundred-something kilometers in that long trip. Yeah. Literally. HOURS.

You just said it was hours, now you are saying three minutes.

You don't know what a battery swap is, do you? Sheesh, you know ~ nothing, it seems.

Apparently people do like the prices and the product, that's why Tesla is not out of business.  You could also look at Tesla's stock prices and compare that to Ford, GM, VW.  People have to like something if Tesla's stock is valued as much as it is.

You seem to forget (conveniently) that for every (new) EV more than a hundred (new) ICEs are sold. Thousands if you count the 2nd hand sales too. IOW, maybe 0.5% of the people prefer an EV. LOL.

[ahbushnell]

Right now VW are clearly eager to get the ID3 out the door, and try to move on from dieselgate, but the whole thing seems to be turning into a farce of endless delays.

People want a car that's better not worse, ergo people don't want EVs.

A plug-in hybrid is a viable option, in my view, even if you're worried about long distance performance, or performance far away from grid power.

And of course Tesla has already demonstrated that you can have insane performance from an EV, enough to destroy most (but not all!) muscle cars.

Hard to beat the sound of a V8 with a supercharger putting its heart into it, though...

I like my PHEV.  Most of the time I use electric but cross country gas. 

[tom66]

Fun fact, after the original Roadster was launched Elon did talk about Tesla launching a PHEV as their first car.

Fisker beat them to it with the Karma (whom Tesla had contracted initially to design a PHEV), and Chevy/GM talked about making one too (which would later become the Volt) ... so Elon decided that a full BEV would be a good idea. 

And that was the right decision.  PHEVs are great for what they are but unless you fit into their narrow band of usage, they aren't a long term solution.  But in the short term for reducing fuel consumption they represent a good vehicle.  I would personally like to see more PHEVs with a 50 mile real world range.  The existing PHEVs are around 20-25 miles, which means that they can usually only fit a short commute in.

[coppice]

Trolling again.  Get your facts straight.    Apparently people do like the prices and the product, that's why Tesla is not out of business.

I wouldn't read too much into Tesla's sales right now. Many people are buying a Tesla as more of a status symbol than a means of transport, but that doesn't scale beyond a certain point. For comparison, in the early 90s, when the original Lexus was launched it wouldn't sell in Hong Kong. Public transport in HK is excellent, and even very high income people use it. The car market in Hong Kong is basically split in 2 - economical Japanese cars for the people who really need personal transport, and luxury European cars as status symbols. The Lexus was just too cheap to sell against the Europeans, and struggled until they put the price up. Status symbol markets can be weird.

[SilverSolder]

Fun fact, after the original Roadster was launched Elon did talk about Tesla launching a PHEV as their first car.

Fisker beat them to it with the Karma (whom Tesla had contracted initially to design a PHEV), and Chevy/GM talked about making one too (which would later become the Volt) ... so Elon decided that a full BEV would be a good idea. 

And that was the right decision.  PHEVs are great for what they are but unless you fit into their narrow band of usage, they aren't a long term solution.  But in the short term for reducing fuel consumption they represent a good vehicle.  I would personally like to see more PHEVs with a 50 mile real world range.  The existing PHEVs are around 20-25 miles, which means that they can usually only fit a short commute in.

Agree, a 50-100 mile range PHEV would be a winner.  But, just to get to 20-25 miles, we need a 3.3KW charger running overnight...   which is already more than e.g. a standard US wall outlet can provide. 

So, the 20-25 mile range models is the "lowest cost realistic option" and does buy you something significant.

[SilverSolder]

Trolling again.  Get your facts straight.    Apparently people do like the prices and the product, that's why Tesla is not out of business.

I wouldn't read too much into Tesla's sales right now. Many people are buying a Tesla as more of a status symbol than a means of transport, but that doesn't scale beyond a certain point. For comparison, in the early 90s, when the original Lexus was launched it wouldn't sell in Hong Kong. Public transport in HK is excellent, and even very high income people use it. The car market in Hong Kong is basically split in 2 - economical Japanese cars for the people who really need personal transport, and luxury European cars as status symbols. The Lexus was just too cheap to sell against the Europeans, and struggled until they put the price up. Status symbol markets can be weird.

Known as the 'Veblen effect' in economics, it is used all over the place.

[tom66]

There is some influence on Tesla sales because they only attract 2% company car tax in the UK (actually 0% and 1% for the first two years, then 2% until 2025).  Which makes them very, very cheap to lease.  Around £250 per month.  Seriously tempted myself to replace the Golf with a Tesla Model 3 ...

[DougSpindler]

Fun fact, after the original Roadster was launched Elon did talk about Tesla launching a PHEV as their first car.

Fisker beat them to it with the Karma (whom Tesla had contracted initially to design a PHEV), and Chevy/GM talked about making one too (which would later become the Volt) ... so Elon decided that a full BEV would be a good idea. 

And that was the right decision.  PHEVs are great for what they are but unless you fit into their narrow band of usage, they aren't a long term solution.  But in the short term for reducing fuel consumption they represent a good vehicle.  I would personally like to see more PHEVs with a 50 mile real world range.  The existing PHEVs are around 20-25 miles, which means that they can usually only fit a short commute in.

I am on my second Volt.  Very pleased.  We get 60-70 mile on electric during the summer and 35-40 in the winter months.  PHEV is the way to go right now.  Can drive around on battery in town for months without using gas at all.  Need to drive for SF to LA or Lake Tahoe, 50 miles electric than the rest is gas.  No waiting for battery swaps or charging.  Best of both worlds.  I plan on buying another Volt.   




Agree, a 50-100 mile range PHEV would be a winner.  But, just to get to 20-25 miles, we need a 3.3KW charger running overnight...   which is already more than e.g. a standard US wall outlet can provide. 

So, the 20-25 mile range models is the "lowest cost realistic option" and does buy you something significant.

[richard.cs]

Agree, a 50-100 mile range PHEV would be a winner.  But, just to get to 20-25 miles, we need a 3.3KW charger running overnight...   which is already more than e.g. a standard US wall outlet can provide. 

So, the 20-25 mile range models is the "lowest cost realistic option" and does buy you something significant.

Assuming 4 miles per kWh, 24 miles needs 6 kWh, call it 7 kWh with charging losses. I don't see how you get 3.3 kW charging required for that unless your nights are under 3 hours long. Even the crummiest US supply could put 12 kWh (so around 50 miles) or so in overnight, plus of course someone buying a new car can probably afford a more sensible charging arrangement - how many tanks of gas does it take to cover the cost of a charger install?

[DougSpindler]

Agree, a 50-100 mile range PHEV would be a winner.  But, just to get to 20-25 miles, we need a 3.3KW charger running overnight...   which is already more than e.g. a standard US wall outlet can provide. 

So, the 20-25 mile range models is the "lowest cost realistic option" and does buy you something significant.

Assuming 4 miles per kWh, 24 miles needs 6 kWh, call it 7 kWh with charging losses. I don't see how you get 3.3 kW charging required for that unless your nights are under 3 hours long. Even the crummiest US supply could put 12 kWh (so around 50 miles) or so in overnight, plus of course someone buying a new car can probably afford a more sensible charging arrangement - how many tanks of gas does it take to cover the cost of a charger install?

You are correct, remember that's a based on a standard American 120 vac outlet.   Most people in the US who get an EV install a 240 vac outlet.  Charge tine for our Volt at 240 is about 3.5 hrs for 65 miles in the summer or 40 in the winter.  If we charge at 120 volts we have the choice at charging at 8 amps or 12 amps.  At 8 amps we can't get a full charge.  At 12 amps it takes 6 - 7 hours.

[boffin]

Agree, a 50-100 mile range PHEV would be a winner.  But, just to get to 20-25 miles, we need a 3.3KW charger running overnight...   which is already more than e.g. a standard US wall outlet can provide. 

So, the 20-25 mile range models is the "lowest cost realistic option" and does b(1uy you something significant.

Overnight (12 hrs) @ 3.3kw is more than enough to completely fill my 225km range egolf.  (that's somewhat more 20-25 miles)

[boffin]

You seem to forget (conveniently) that for every (new) EV more than a hundred (new) ICEs are sold. Thousands if you count the 2nd hand sales too. IOW, maybe 0.5% of the people prefer an EV. LOL.

Making up numbers again???

Locally:
"In the first nine months of 2019, EV sales have made up 9% of all light-duty vehicle sales in the province"
https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2019EMPR0111-002292

Globally:
Electric cars, which accounted for 2.6% of global car sales
https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2020


but when have facts stopped you in the past.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Those numbers include hybrids which are ICEs. Look up pure EV numbers my friend. And don't forget to count 2nd hand car sales too.

[DougSpindler]

Those numbers include hybrids which are ICEs. Look up pure EV numbers my friend. And don't forget to count 2nd hand car sales too.

Dude I looked them up as you asked only to find you lied as you commonly do.  Why do you lie and present false information? 

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Google is your friend.