What chemicals/solvents do you keep in your lab? And what for?

[IanB]

you wrote DI water is audiophoolery. it is not.

No, I said it is audiophoolery to suppose that de-ionized water will somehow get its ions back if left sitting in a sealed container. If you have removed the Calcium, magnesium, chloride, carbonate, sulfate ions from the water they will not re-materialize out of nowhere. It cannot happen.

You are still being confused about your terms. What you need to be saying is that "the ultra-pure water that I am familiar with in chip fab plants is much purer than the distilled water found in bottles in the supermarket". That is a true statement.

But saying that all water from de-ionization processes is purer than all water from distillation processes is not correct.

You are saying that the "DI water" you have encountered in fab plants is the only kind of DI water found anywhere. That is not so. The world is a big place and there are many things that exist outside your specific industry.

[M4trix]

No, I said it is audiophoolery

I see you're allergic to audiophoolery. 

[CaptnYellowShirt]

No, I said it is audiophoolery

I see you're allergic to audiophoolery. 

Ahh. Ahh. Ahh-Choo!

[poorchava]

-Toluene - same as above

Where is a common source for this?  My local big box home improvement store doesn't carry it.  Unless it's labeled as something else.

In Europe u can buy it in every bigger hardware stores like Castorama, Leroy-Merlin, Praktiker, Jula, OBI or what have you. There is not common name, Toluene is the chemical name of the compound. another thing is that often times manufacturers will sell the same chemical mix (eg 50% acetone 50% xylene) as universal solvent, silicone paint solvent, oil paint solvent etc, so that customers have easier time picking the right product for their needs.

Or perhaps this is the opposite situation to the one with hydrochloric acid. In EU it's rather hard to get it, I mean u cannot buy it in hardware store (and there is no such thing as 'pool supplies' since hardly anybody has a pool in their garden around here). I had to go to wholesalers and buy 10L canister (for 5€, lol) and fill in my personal data and declare what I will use it for. Maybe it's the same with toluene in US? Perhaps it's one some drug precursor list or something?

[george graves]

Toluene - I can find it on ebay of all places...

I've got to be on some government watch list by now....just for searching for this crap.

"Toluene had also been used in the process of removing the cocaine from coca leaves"

Yep - there it is....

[M4trix]

Toluene - I can find it on ebay of all places...

I've got to be on some government watch list by now....just for searching for this crap.

"Toluene had also been used in the process of removing the cocaine from coca leaves"

Yep - there it is....

Not only that, it's the main chemical for manufacturing explosives like trinitrotoluene aka TNT.  You're definitely on the watch list! 

[george graves]

Didn't know that M4trix.  Thanks for emailing me the recipe.  See you on the watch-list too!

[Wim_L]

- Large glass jar with home made insulating lid and two .999 silver rods, containing distilled water with dissolved fine silver particles. The proverbial 'colloidal silver'. It has an interesting taste. One of those 'try it myself and see' things, a couple of years ago.

You might want to avoid drinking more, unless you'd like to have greyish-blue skin for the rest of your life.

About your episode with white spirit... That's relatively common, for a lot of solvents. Overexposure will damage the neural system. Chronic painter's syndrome (painters often suffered from it, more so in the past, these days a lot of paints are water-based to avoid such problems).

A correct DI process ( osmotic membrane -> Uv blaster -> ion bed under nitrogen atmosphere ) A continuous  recirculation in this loop (osmosis , uv , ion bed) yields far superior cleanliness.

The only part that makes DI water DI, is that is passed over both acidic and basic resins to remove dissolved ions. All of those other things have nothing to do with DI water. Semiconductor fabs use the other techniques too because merely deionising isn't good enough to make pure water (mostly because there are lots of things that could potentially decontaminate the water, and not all of those things are ionic).

It's also true that DI water will quickly gather some contaminants from almost anything it comes into contact with. But keep in mind, it was suggested first as water for soldering iron sponges, for tip cleaning. Will the DI water from a store-bought plastic bottle be as clean as the water used in a chip fab? No way, nowhere near that level of quality. It's still DI water though, just not made to the same standards. It's going to get even dirtier after yu put it on that sponge. But it's still going to be a lot better for this purpose than using hard tap water that will leave a crust of minerals on the soldering iron after a while.

[SL4P]

Toothpaste - without candy stripes !
Good for micro polishing in a pinch.

[SeanB]

Don't forget that dehumidifiers produce loads of free distilled water!

My portable AC does too. I'm astonished at how quickly its water tank builds up!

I wouldn't go drinking it though - full of microbes & dust. But instead of chucking it I guess it would be good enough for cleaning PCBs and not leaving salt/minerals when dried?

Condensate water from an AC is anything but clean and pure. Has all the smoke particles from the smokers in the area, all the particulates from car exhaust ( including lead, lead free fuel is just leaded to **BELOW** 0.55 TE lead as either an additive or a contaminant from the refining system) and any other floating organic material around. Makes a great bacterial food, which is why you find such a load of bacteria growing in AC systems, including Legionnaires disease. By me it is also about 4% sea salt from the nearby Indian ocean.

[theatrus]

Xylene/toluene is also not readily available in California.


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[Jeroen3]

I don't have much choice of chemicals at my home wokplace, but I'll survive.

Bottled tapwater for the solder sponge!
Canned PCB cleaner (a mixture of several different alcohols called Kontakt LR)
Canned Air (to blow of the PCB cleaner so it doesn't leave white residue)
Cheap Flux paste in a syringe.
Acrylic spray coating as finisch for PCB's.

[Jeroen3]

I don't have much choice of chemicals at my home wokplace, but I'll survive.

Bottled tapwater for the solder sponge!
Canned PCB cleaner (a mixture of several different alcohols called KONTAKT LR)
Canned Air (to blow of the PCB cleaner so it doesn't leave white residue)
Cheap Flux paste in a syringe.
Acrylic spray coating as finisch for PCB's, called KONTAKT Plastik.

[grumpydoc]

Or perhaps this is the opposite situation to the one with hydrochloric acid. In EU it's rather hard to get it,

Not in France - many supermarkets have the stuff on the shelf. In fact, compared to the UK where you can't buy stuff like HCl or Acetone even at DIY stores, French supermarkets seem to do a reasonable range of basic household chemicals.

Never looked at the strength though - probably not all that concentrated.

[IanB]

Not in France - many supermarkets have the stuff on the shelf. In fact, compared to the UK where you can't buy stuff like HCl or Acetone even at DIY stores, French supermarkets seem to do a reasonable range of basic household chemicals.

This may be a limitation with UK DIY stores as much as anything else. Last time I looked in B&Q their selection of tools and hardware was very limited, almost hopeless. If they are only going to sell the most basic selection of the most commonly sought items, it is very unlikely they will stock anything slightly out of the ordinary.

Common uses of HCl (or muriatic acid) are for cleaning concrete and for pH control in swimming pools. So it may perhaps be found at a builder's merchant or at a pool supplies store, though I have not tested that in the UK to see if it is true.

[M4trix]

Or perhaps this is the opposite situation to the one with hydrochloric acid. In EU it's rather hard to get it,

Not in France - many supermarkets have the stuff on the shelf. In fact, compared to the UK where you can't buy stuff like HCl or Acetone even at DIY stores, French supermarkets seem to do a reasonable range of basic household chemicals.

Never looked at the strength though - probably not all that concentrated.

Here in the supermarkets you can only buy 19% HCL. The 33% HCL can be bought on the black market for the double price. Same goes for the hydrogen peroxide.

[grumpydoc]

The 33% HCL can be bought on the black market for the double price. Same goes for the hydrogen peroxide.

Concentrated HCl and H₂O₂ seem to be easy enough to get hold of in the UK - one only needs to resort to Amazon and not the black market but DIY stores and supermarket's don't stock anything terribly useful.

[GiskardReventlov]

distilled water for solder sponge (contact lens solution bottle with squirt tip)
IPA a.k.a. (CH3)2CHOH
flux
Coffee, water, etc. (life solvents)

[N2IXK]

High strength HCl seems to be going away in the US, as well. The last time I needed some, I had to check several stores before I found the 33-37% stuff that was always standard. The more diluted stuff was all that was widely available.

Same with the 90%+ H2SO4 that was once sold in in the plumbing aisle as a "heavy duty pro-grade" drain opener under various brand names.  I heard that this stuff went away largely because stupid people would add it to a drain where they had already used the more common alkaline-based stuff, and got a huge corrosive eruption in their face as the 2 tried to neutralize each other, generating huge amounts of gas and heat.

[PedroDaGr8]

Xylene/toluene is also not readily available in California.


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IIRC Goof Off is a toluene xylene blend. Look at stuff like that, paint thinner, paint stripper, mineral spirits etc.

As for my lab, you don't want yo know. I'm a chemist do I have loads and loads of solvents. Though my favorite is chloroform. It's a great all around solvent.

[SeanB]

Ether also is a good solvent, though there are problems in that it will penetrate most plastics ad strip plasticisers out.

[IanB]

Ether also is a good solvent, though there are problems in that it will penetrate most plastics ad strip plasticisers out.

It's a really good idea not to keep ether around unless you really know what you are doing.

http://nepis.epa.gov/Adobe/PDF/100035EV.PDF

Ethyl ether auto-oxidizes to form explosive polymeric peroxides. It also tends to absorb and react with oxygen from the air to form unstable peroxides that may detonate with extreme violence when disturbed by heat, shock, or friction. An 8-ounce can or vial of ethyl ether in which peroxides have formed has the potential explosive force of one stick of dynamite.

In other words, simply unscrewing the top of a bottle of ether that has been in storage for a long time may cause it to explode in your hands.

[T3sl4co1l]

Ridiculous.  An 8-ounce vial, even if it's pure peroxide, won't have near the blasting power of a stick of dynamite.  I don't know offhand how much nitroglycerin is in a stick, but it's a high velocity explosive, while organic peroxides (in general; I don't recall if I've read about ether's specifically) are low velocity, rather poor explosives as explosives go.  A stick of dynamite?  You're just a red streak on the wall!

What organic peroxides are, is fucking unstable.   Dynamite is stable enough to kick around, but most organic peroxides are unstable to the point where just fracturing the crystals can cause detonation (not just ignition and deflagration, we're talking primary explosive here).

And it only takes a few grams of organic peroxide, or dynamite, or anything else that detonates, to turn fingers into red mist.  I'd rather not atomize my fingers, so...

Ether doesn't peroxidize willy-nilly; a well sealed and stored bottle will keep for decades.  Use a stabilizer (it's normally sold with a small fraction of something like ethanol, which I guess shorts out the radicals that cause peroxidation), keep away from light, store in a dark glass or metal bottle, and test periodically for the presence of peroxides (they'll be present, dissolved and relatively inert, before they begin crystallizing).

But regardless; an unknown, old bottle, absolutely a risk.  Fresh stuff, stabilized and checked, and used up promptly, you're handling it safely.

Tim

[theatrus]

Xylene/toluene is also not readily available in California.


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IIRC Goof Off is a toluene xylene blend. Look at stuff like that, paint thinner, paint stripper, mineral spirits etc.

As for my lab, you don't want yo know. I'm a chemist do I have loads and loads of solvents. Though my favorite is chloroform. It's a great all around solvent.

Goof Off also contains Acetone, which may not be ideal in all uses.

There is an interesting "industrial coating thinner" sold which is a blend of (something) and amyl acetate, marketed as a Xylene/Toulene/MEK substitute.

[N2IXK]

I use diethyl ether occasionally at work, as it is specifically called for as a cleaning solvent for installing some potted connections on offshore cables. Good stuff, but not one I would suggest keeping around the home lab.

In addition to the tendency to form unstable peroxides, it has a low boiling point, and extremely low flash point. Wickedly flammable stuff, with heavier than air vapors that tend to "crawl" along benchtops and floors to find an ignition source. I have heard that in very dry environments, the friction of the vapors drifting along surfaces can generate enough of a static charge to set off an explosion. 

The other issue is the distinctive, highly pervasive smell. Using this stuff in a residential area is just BEGGING for a police SWAT team to smash your doors down looking for the clandestine drug lab....