It's understandable that 'volt nuts' are better tolerated in EEVBLOG forums - test gear is the subject matter!
I've spent quite a few hours listening to and comparing audio equipment. I've always been of the opinion that most of the audible difference is in the speakers. Once you've spent about $200-$250 on an amplifier then you're pretty much done as far as electronics goes.
(nb. This is for home audio. Two speakers, average sized room)
Sources? It's all digital these days so it doesn't make any difference.
Speakers? You have to spend quite a lot to reach a plateau. Maybe $1500.
And ... the best thing you can do to improve most audio setups is to move the speakers around to find the best position/height relative to the listener and add some acoustic conditioning to the room.
It's understandable that 'volt nuts' are better tolerated in EEVBLOG forums - test gear is the subject matter!
I've spent quite a few hours listening to and comparing audio equipment. I've always been of the opinion that most of the audible difference is in the speakers. Once you've spent about $200-$250 on an amplifier then you're pretty much done as far as electronics goes.
(nb. This is for home audio. Two speakers, average sized room)
Sources? It's all digital these days so it doesn't make any difference.
Speakers? You have to spend quite a lot to reach a plateau. Maybe $1500.
And ... the best thing you can do to improve most audio setups is to move the speakers around to find the best position/height relative to the listener and add some acoustic conditioning to the room.
It's understandable that 'volt nuts' are better tolerated in EEVBLOG forums - test gear is the subject matter!
most of the audible difference is in the speakers.
Speakers? You have to spend quite a lot to reach a plateau. Maybe $1500.
And ... the best thing you can do to improve most audio setups is to move the speakers around to find the best position/height relative to the listener and add some acoustic conditioning to the room.
No room treatment (no way the wife would go for that), but I do have a self-tuning digital RTA/EQ in the mix that does a LOT to reduce resonances at the listening position.
My only confusion is why you're fine spending $200-250 on an amp for speakers, but are under the impression that no amp is required for headphones? For little $2 ear buds sure, but a lot of high end headphones are just as hard to power as a small set of bookshelf speakers. There's no way the crappy little chip amp in a phone can do them justice. It can get them to make noise, sure, but that's a long way off from performing correctly.
While true, it is equally true that you don't need a $200 or more amp to drive even "elite" headphones.
No room treatment (no way the wife would go for that)
My only confusion is why you're fine spending $200-250 on an amp for speakers, but are under the impression that no amp is required for headphones? For little $2 ear buds sure, but a lot of high end headphones are just as hard to power as a small set of bookshelf speakers. There's no way the crappy little chip amp in a phone can do them justice. It can get them to make noise, sure, but that's a long way off from performing correctly.
It's understandable that 'volt nuts' are better tolerated in EEVBLOG forums - test gear is the subject matter!
I've spent quite a few hours listening to and comparing audio equipment. I've always been of the opinion that most of the audible difference is in the speakers. Once you've spent about $200-$250 on an amplifier then you're pretty much done as far as electronics goes.
(nb. This is for home audio. Two speakers, average sized room)
Sources? It's all digital these days so it doesn't make any difference.
Speakers? You have to spend quite a lot to reach a plateau. Maybe $1500.
And ... the best thing you can do to improve most audio setups is to move the speakers around to find the best position/height relative to the listener and add some acoustic conditioning to the room.
I agree with the possible exception of electrostatic headphones? I seem to recall they have rather exotic driving requirements, high voltages? Never listened to any of those types but maybe someone here has and knows if they required a specific amp driver type?
It's understandable that 'volt nuts' are better tolerated in EEVBLOG forums - test gear is the subject matter!
I've spent quite a few hours listening to and comparing audio equipment. I've always been of the opinion that most of the audible difference is in the speakers. Once you've spent about $200-$250 on an amplifier then you're pretty much done as far as electronics goes.
(nb. This is for home audio. Two speakers, average sized room)
Sources? It's all digital these days so it doesn't make any difference.
Speakers? You have to spend quite a lot to reach a plateau. Maybe $1500.
And ... the best thing you can do to improve most audio setups is to move the speakers around to find the best position/height relative to the listener and add some acoustic conditioning to the room.
speakers can easily have 10s of percent distortion and all kind of other artifacts so they are the weak link.
But it's possible that human hearing and mental processing might even be a weaker link?
amplifiers with unmeasurable noise and distortion and a bandwidth way beyond audio is easy
I agree with the possible exception of electrostatic headphones? I seem to recall they have rather exotic driving requirements, high voltages? Never listened to any of those types but maybe someone here has and knows if they required a specific amp driver type?
speakers can easily have 10s of percent distortion and all kind of other artifacts so they are the weak link.
amplifiers with unmeasurable noise and distortion and a bandwidth way beyond audio is easy
speakers can easily have 10s of percent distortion and all kind of other artifacts so they are the weak link.
amplifiers with unmeasurable noise and distortion and a bandwidth way beyond audio is easy
I've always been of the opinion that most of the audible difference is in the speakers. Once you've spent about $200-$250 on an amplifier then you're pretty much done as far as electronics goes.
(nb. This is for home audio. Two speakers, average sized room)
Sources? It's all digital these days so it doesn't make any difference.
Speakers? You have to spend quite a lot to reach a plateau. Maybe $1500.
And ... the best thing you can do to improve most audio setups is to move the speakers around to find the best position/height relative to the listener and add some acoustic conditioning to the room.
speakers can easily have 10s of percent distortion and all kind of other artifacts so they are the weak link.
amplifiers with unmeasurable noise and distortion and a bandwidth way beyond audio is easy
Interesting that everybody is agreeing with this, it's almost the opposite of what HiFi magazines recommend.
(usually you "spend at least as much on the amplifier as the speakers")
A bit off-topic however I feel I have to say that:
To design a good sounding electronics is not a trivial task. There is much more to it than appears to an electronics engineer who has little to no experience in that very special area. Just as a simple example - yes, transducers are in theory the most non-linear parts of the audio chain. However for that very reason the electronics facing those devices on both ends is difficult to design right. Even a "perfect" amplifier has to work not with a dummy resistive load but with a very non-perfect speaker. So the real importance is how these two devices work together (and that is not an easy thing to get right, believe me, I've designed a number of amplifiers, including some very good ones, and some not so good). It is like in any specialised area of electronics, as soon as you start to dig deep you have to change your perspective and to learn some nuances.
Interesting that everybody is agreeing with this, it's almost the opposite of what HiFi magazines recommend.
(usually you "spend at least as much on the amplifier as the speakers")
The 'old rule' as i recall is to spend 50% of budget on speakers the other 50% on everything else not just amp.
As far as magazines recommendations go recall that they are dependent on ad income so must promote (or at least not discourage) spending.
A bit off-topic however I feel I have to say that:
To design a good sounding electronics is not a trivial task. There is much more to it than appears to an electronics engineer who has little to no experience in that very special area. Just as a simple example - yes, transducers are in theory the most non-linear parts of the audio chain. However for that very reason the electronics facing those devices on both ends is difficult to design right. Even a "perfect" amplifier has to work not with a dummy resistive load but with a very non-perfect speaker. So the real importance is how these two devices work together (and that is not an easy thing to get right, believe me, I've designed a number of amplifiers, including some very good ones, and some not so good). It is like in any specialised area of electronics, as soon as you start to dig deep you have to change your perspective and to learn some nuances.
As an amplifier designer, how much should a good audio amplifier with, say, 70-100W of power cost on the street?
A quick google search for "class ab 100w audio amplifier IC" came up with this in the first few results.
Low noise ... 0.01% THD ... 6 Euros in one-off quantity on Mouser.
I suspect the 'amplifier' problem has been studied, the design compromises have been made and it's now available in a monolithic packages from a dozen different manufacturers.
I agree with the possible exception of electrostatic headphones? I seem to recall they have rather exotic driving requirements, high voltages? Never listened to any of those types but maybe someone here has and knows if they required a specific amp driver type?
You don't connect electrostatics directly to an ordinary headphone socket, they come with their own custom amplifier.
A lot of them use wall warts for power so I assume you could build a battery pack if you really want to.
Unless it's the amp shown below...
On the other hand ears aren't even particularly linear.
(usually you "spend at least as much on the amplifier as the speakers")That is because we are speaking in the present tense.
Things were significantly different back 50 years ago when "HiFi magazines" were making this recommendation.