uSupply Custom LCD

[mariush]

There are other technologies which are sort of like eink but better, here's one example:



It's expensive though.

[aandrew]

I am not a fan of LCDs for instrumentation. Glare, low contrast ratio, low resolution.

Give me graphical OLED or VFD for high end, segmented VFD for mid and plain old regular 7 segment LEDs and illuminated indicators (think icons with an LED behind to light up when they're active) for low end.

graphical LCDs and segmented LCDs are actually a "feature" point that turn me off of selecting an instrument.

[Mr. Scram]

Hey I just read that off datasheet from your own link to a product, 100% facts here. E-ink would just be a novel(and have obvious problems that are not that easy to solve unless you buy ready-made one, like backlight), LCD is just much better fit for the job

That was not my link or proposition. I'm just somewhat aware of the capabilities of the technology. Again, let's be factual.

I don't quite understand the comment about "ready made". LCD would be too, right? The same applies to both technologies.

[Mr. Scram]

Probably not - E-ink is slow, but also has the risk that something's gone wrong/crashed, and the display is still showing 3v when the PSU is outputting 24V.
Basing a production design on surplus parts is also very risky, unless they are so cheap you can buy a reasonable lifetime's worth of stock.

See, that's a real argument. Power supplies have to be safe.

[gardner]

Personally I am another advocate for a bar graph or % of set-current display.  I also want to have the current shown in mA where appropriate.  Here is a craptacular mock-up of a way to shoehorn those features in.

[ZeTeX]

Did you change the main power regulating circuit (LT3080/81 + op-amp loops)? or the changes are done in other places?

Yes, the LT3080 had protection and other issues.

When are we expected to get a new video / updated schematic?

[Mr. Scram]

I am not a fan of LCDs for instrumentation. Glare, low contrast ratio, low resolution.

Give me graphical OLED or VFD for high end, segmented VFD for mid and plain old regular 7 segment LEDs and illuminated indicators (think icons with an LED behind to light up when they're active) for low end.

graphical LCDs and segmented LCDs are actually a "feature" point that turn me off of selecting an instrument.

Both VFD and OLED aren't as durable as LCD. They tend to wear out or become unobtainable. Longevity is important in products like these, much more than it is in the mobile phone or general consumer markets.

[VEGETA]

I am not a fan of LCDs for instrumentation. Glare, low contrast ratio, low resolution.

Give me graphical OLED or VFD for high end, segmented VFD for mid and plain old regular 7 segment LEDs and illuminated indicators (think icons with an LED behind to light up when they're active) for low end.

graphical LCDs and segmented LCDs are actually a "feature" point that turn me off of selecting an instrument.

Both VFD and OLED aren't as durable as LCD. They tend to wear out or become unobtainable. Longevity is important in products like these, much more than it is in the mobile phone or general consumer markets.

What about professional bench PSU? what do they use?

I aid your point of longevity but I don't think TFTs, OLEDs, and others are bad. It all depends on your estimated lifespan of the product until it becomes in its late age.

I am still a fan of high quality (and small) touch TFTs with lots of menus and options, EEZ-supply is the way to go and the model to follow here. You can still have your classical rotary encoder though.

Quick important question: what is the price dave wants to tag to this PSU? this answers a lot.

[Mr. Scram]

What about professional bench PSU? what do they use?

I aid your point of longevity but I don't think TFTs, OLEDs, and others are bad. It all depends on your estimated lifespan of the product until it becomes in its late age.

I am still a fan of high quality (and small) touch TFTs with lots of menus and options, EEZ-supply is the way to go and the model to follow here. You can still have your classical rotary encoder though.

Quick important question: what is the price dave wants to tag to this PSU? this answers a lot.

What about professional test gear? Some have used VFD in the past, some have used OLED, and both turn out to be less durable than simpler LED and LCD solutions. You could also argue that you don't care about the gear working over 15 or 20 years, which isn't unfair.

It should be noted that OLED may have had some issues because the technology was new back then and not quite as developed as it is now.

[mikeselectricstuff]

A PSU has simple and mostly obvious UI requirements.
Almost nobody will be interested in hacking it unless the firmware actively sucks.
A custom LCD is almost certainly going to be the cheapest (display+drive hardware+CPU resources to drive it) option if the volumes are there. It also allows more flexibility of shape/size than an off-the-shelf LCD, and therefore more flexibility of panel layout, for optimum space usage of an off-the-shelf case.
 

[julianhigginson]

Well, if anything, this thread has been an awesome reminder of why not to open designs up for contribution before the features are decided...
 

[Mr. Scram]

Well, if anything, this thread has been an awesome reminder of why not to open designs up for contribution before the features are decided...
 

Wasn't that the point? You take the suggestions you like and leave the rest.

[EEVblog]

When are we expected to get a new video / updated schematic?

When it's finished.

[Fire Doger]

Hello Dave,

As a newbie in mass production I am wondering why you don't make a poll about some features which seems to "bug" some members (ex. lcd). It looks like you did a research (referring on Newhaven on older post)

I mean something like:
80-100$ with TFT ++ any other associated features like max current, size etc...
50-70$ with custom lcd ++...

Is it because you are targeting on how you want to look-cost-use and less on profit, the results from that kind of polls are inaccurate or for other reasons?

I am just curious,
Thanks

[EEVblog]

Hello Dave,
As a newbie in mass production I am wondering why you don't make a poll about some features which seems to "bug" some members (ex. lcd). It looks like you did a research (referring on Newhaven on older post)

It doesn't matter what you do you will never be able to please a majority. Product design by poll or public opinion does not work.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Hello Dave,
As a newbie in mass production I am wondering why you don't make a poll about some features which seems to "bug" some members (ex. lcd). It looks like you did a research (referring on Newhaven on older post)

It doesn't matter what you do you will never be able to please a majority. Product design by poll or public opinion does not work.

No it doesn't, though more eyes on a problem can often come up with good ideas or spot things you've not considered - just needs suitable filtering
 

[Mr. Scram]

Design by committee produces the most horrible products. Besides, it's been shown that people will happily vote in a poll, but don't always put their money where their mouth is afterwards. If you at least believe in your product, it won't be so bad.

[ebclr]

OK now the LCD is defined, a nice CPU suggestion to have many very good measurements, and all LCD control

Precision Metrology with Segment LCD MCUs based on Arm® Cortex®-M0+

https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/fact-sheet/KNTSKM3XFS.pdf

[TimNJ]

Hello Dave,
As a newbie in mass production I am wondering why you don't make a poll about some features which seems to "bug" some members (ex. lcd). It looks like you did a research (referring on Newhaven on older post)

It doesn't matter what you do you will never be able to please a majority. Product design by poll or public opinion does not work.

No it doesn't, though more eyes on a problem can often come up with good ideas or spot things you've not considered - just needs suitable filtering
 

Design by committee produces the most horrible products. Besides, it's been shown that people will happily vote in a poll, but don't always put their money where their mouth is afterwards. If you at least believe in your product, it won't be so bad.

It is true that most good designs are spearheaded by a single architect, so I agree that Dave should follow his vision on the product. That said, it is also just as important to remember that just because you think your product is great, doesn't mean everyone else will think the same. This seems to come up on The Amp Hour pretty frequently. Whether it was Bunnie or Gerry Roston or others, they all emphasized the importance of really understanding what the customer (or the world) needs before jumping into product design. That's something I've definitely learned over time, too.

So on that note, as Mike has said, a lot of nonsensical feature requests will come your way, but there also may be some really valuable input buried in that "noise".

[Mr. Scram]

It is true that most good designs are spearheaded by a single architect, so I agree that Dave should follow his vision on the product. That said, it is also just as important to remember that just because you think your product is great, doesn't mean everyone else will think the same. This seems to come up on The Amp Hour pretty frequently. Whether it was Bunnie or Gerry Roston or others, they all emphasized the importance of really understanding what the customer (or the world) needs before jumping into product design. That's something I've definitely learned over time, too.

So on that note, as Mike has said, a lot of nonsensical feature requests will come your way, but there also may be some really valuable input buried in that "noise".

Obviously. I'm not questioning the thread.

[TimNJ]

I just quoted you because I agreed with your sentiment. My reply was directed at Dave and anyone else developing a product (including a reminder to myself!)

[Mr. Scram]

I just quoted you because I agreed with your sentiment. My reply was directed at Dave and anyone else developing a product (including a reminder to myself!)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Apologies, I misunderstood.

[aandrew]

Both VFD and OLED aren't as durable as LCD. They tend to wear out or become unobtainable. Longevity is important in products like these, much more than it is in the mobile phone or general consumer markets.

My ancient Fluke 8842A would like to have a word with you about VFD longevity.

At least when it comes to VFDs, they only tend to go bad quickly if they're poor quality or abused.  And I agree with you; longevity is important in bench equipment. I wasn't referring to full colour OLED so much as the more inexpensive, lower density OLEDs used for these kinds of equipment..

[xani]

Well it depends on what device in question do.

Assuming a display have say 20k hours lifetime, that can be ~10 years working in lab, decades working for hobbyist, or a bit over 2 years if run 24/7.

[Mr. Scram]

My ancient Fluke 8842A would like to have a word with you about VFD longevity.

At least when it comes to VFDs, they only tend to go bad quickly if they're poor quality or abused.  And I agree with you; longevity is important in bench equipment. I wasn't referring to full colour OLED so much as the more inexpensive, lower density OLEDs used for these kinds of equipment..

Well, they're known to cause real issues in proper high end gear on a relevant scale. OLED is also known to cause issues, in lower density screens too, even though that might be due to the technology not being very mature.