UK broadband... 3 of 5 copper wires cut resulted in decreased bandwidth...?

[Postal2]

It's a fast ethernet, not broadband. Even a schoolchild can guess.

...My question is, while waiting for the telecom engineer to fix it (a few days), how can I try to fix it myself?

Is it ok/safe to rejoin any of the white wires together randomly?

Checking random connections is completely safe.

[coppice]

We had a new line installed, with fresh overhead wiring from the pole outside, in the mid 80s that consisted of figure of 8 plastic with a pair of copper coated steel wires inside.

Dropwire 6, then. Apparently DW 10 hadn't been rolled out yet, or maybe they were using up all the old stock. That's still 40 years ago, so ancient history.

Ancient history? You do realise that in mature affluent areas of the UK, where a huge amount of underground telephony cable was laid in the 1930s, most of the homes are still served by those century old cables.

Of course I realise it - I worked my entire career in BT!  Having said that, I question your assertions around "mature affluent", "huge amount" and "most". Weazelly words - give us some hard data. You know, like I have in my posts.

What's up with you - do you have some need to have the last word or something? An ego thing, maybe?

There's nothing weazily if you actually turn on your brain. In my lifetime the majority of new builds have had underground telephone wires fed into them. Existing homes are different. Wealthier areas had their phone lines underground from the 1930s on, both for existing homes and new builds. Poorer areas, like the part of North London where I grew up, didn't have the density of phone subscribers to justify that much digging up of roads until the 1970s. When I was a kid the telephone poles along our street still had a mass of separate pairs going down the street, dropping off at the few houses who could afford a phone. Those were only replaced with underground cables down the street, and a simple overhead drop cable to each house, in about 1970. This coincided with phones changing from something unusual in the area, to something most homes had. People had to wait a couple of years to get a party line installed. They then had to wait another couple of years before they could have the luxury of their very own pair.

So, the wealthy mature areas have a lot of underground telephony cabling nearly a century old. Poorer areas didn't get underground cables until much later, so they don't have much cabling of a similar age. Immature areas (i.e. ones with lots of new builds) have cables as old as the home.

[SteveThackery]

So, the wealthy mature areas have a lot of underground telephony cabling nearly a century old. Poorer areas didn't get underground cables until much later, so they don't have much cabling of a similar age. Immature areas (i.e. ones with lots of new builds) have cables as old as the home.

The thing is, none of this is in dispute. The existence of 90-year-old plant has no bearing on my statement that the 1980s are "ancient history". They are, and the 1930s are even more ancient.

This has turned into an "angels on a pinhead" debate about the meaning of the word "ancient". It's irrelevant to the thread and completely fruitless to pursue it further (and yet something tells me you'll want the last word - you are welcome).

[coppice]

So, the wealthy mature areas have a lot of underground telephony cabling nearly a century old. Poorer areas didn't get underground cables until much later, so they don't have much cabling of a similar age. Immature areas (i.e. ones with lots of new builds) have cables as old as the home.

The thing is, none of this is in dispute. The existence of 90-year-old plant has no bearing on my statement that the 1980s are "ancient history". They are, and the 1930s are even more ancient.

This has turned into an "angels on a pinhead" debate about the meaning of the word "ancient". It's irrelevant to the thread and completely fruitless to pursue it further (and yet something tells me you'll want the last word - you are welcome).

Those two dates make a big difference. A 1980s cable is very little different from one made today. A 1930s cable uses a who set of different materials. Its quite impressive that the telephony cables of that period are still seviceable, as nothing from the power industry is.

[SteveThackery]

Back to somewhere near the topic....

You might have noticed how OpenReach has moved back towards overhead distribution for the fibre-to-the-home (FTTH) rollout. I know of customers with u/g telephony feeds being given an overhead fibre feed. One customer (a friend of mine) has a customer-provided duct from the street side to his property. It is a premium property and the owner considers an overhead feed to be aesthetically unacceptable. OpenReach happily put their u/g telephone cable through the duct around 15 years ago, but have refused to do the same with their fibre, insisting on an overhead feed to his property. He considers this to be extraordinary, as do I.

New poles are going in all over the place, mostly because it is very much cheaper to go overhead for the "drop".

I'm not sure why OpenReach are reluctant to use existing u/g feeds to properties, but I could guess. I wonder if the ducts were not fitted with a draw rope after the initial installation. In that case, pushing another cable through the duct would be extremely difficult. There is something I'm not sure about: what proportion of u/g telephony drops are direct buried rather than in a duct. Direct burial for the new fibre cable would be expensive and disruptive, especially on mature properties (as opposed to new builds, where it would be quite straightforward).

Personally I don't find overhead distribution problematic aesthetically, but I know some people do. OpenReach are responding to a government initiative to push out fibre broadband (or rather, Gigabit broadband) across the country, so I suspect are getting an easy ride from a planning point of view.

[SteveThackery]

Historically, 'E' side* cables were lead, with paper-wrapped copper conductors inside. They were fed with air from the exchange, under modest pressure, to keep water out if the lead should be breached. Each cable had an air flow meter and every month I had the job of reading and reporting the readings. The idea was that an increase in air flow would signal a breach and trigger an investigation before the breach got big enough to flood the cable.

It was beneficial if the manholes or joint boxes were flooded, because all that was required was to look for a stream of bubbles. Otherwise, fault location took longer.

*'E'-side cables are those going from the exchange to the cabinets (PCPs - primary connection points). 'D'-side cables go from the cabinets to the pillars (SCCPs - secondary cross-connection points) and DPs (distribution points, which are terminal blocks at the top of a pole or a joint in the pavement).

From the 1960s, and possibly earlier, the 'D'-side cables were polyethylene-insulated and grease-filled (actually vaseline, I believe) to prevent water from entering and travelling through the cable). I'm not sure what type of cable was used for 'D'-side cables before plastic insulation was available. This would be the era before dropwires, when the drops were pairs of open wires. Perhaps someone could advise?  Certainly, 'D'-side cables weren't pressurised.

[coppice]

Back to somewhere near the topic....

You might have noticed how OpenReach has moved back towards overhead distribution for the fibre-to-the-home (FTTH) rollout. I know of customers with u/g telephony feeds being given an overhead fibre feed. One customer (a friend of mine) has a customer-provided duct from the street side to his property. It is a premium property and the owner considers an overhead feed to be aesthetically unacceptable. OpenReach happily put their u/g telephone cable through the duct around 15 years ago, but have refused to do the same with their fibre, insisting on an overhead feed to his property. He considers this to be extraordinary, as do I.

New poles are going in all over the place, mostly because it is very much cheaper to go overhead for the "drop".

I'm not sure why OpenReach are reluctant to use existing u/g feeds to properties, but I could guess. I wonder if the ducts were not fitted with a draw rope after the initial installation. In that case, pushing another cable through the duct would be extremely difficult. There is something I'm not sure about: what proportion of u/g telephony drops are direct buried rather than in a duct. Direct burial for the new fibre cable would be expensive and disruptive, especially on mature properties (as opposed to new builds, where it would be quite straightforward).

Personally I don't find overhead distribution problematic aesthetically, but I know some people do. OpenReach are responding to a government initiative to push out fibre broadband (or rather, Gigabit broadband) across the country, so I suspect are getting an easy ride from a planning point of view.

Maybe they were so delighted when overhead fibre became feasible that they've only stocked up on the hardware to provide overhead installations.  Openreach have frequently said something will happen quickly, based on their being a tube in place, and then found the tube has been crushed over the years. We had a very long delay in getting anything faster than ADSL in this village, because of crushed ducts, and some of the other villages in this area had similar experiences. Maybe this is making them prefer a quick and easy to replace last 0.01 mile link.

[PlainName]

I wonder if the ducts were not fitted with a draw rope after the initial installation. In that case, pushing another cable through the duct would be extremely difficult.

Perhaps it's because they don't know where the cable is going so have no control over potential damage. Also, if there does turn out to be a problem then an overhead is easier to get to and fix than underground down some random pipe.

Or, of course, could be jobsworth following the letter rather than intent. If someone higher up has said they will do overhead to save on making holes, then overhead it is going to be regardless of any useful holes.

[wasedadoc]

It's a fast ethernet, not broadband. Even a schoolchild can guess.

Nonsense.  There is no fast ethernet to residential houses in the UK.

[Postal2]

It's a fast ethernet, not broadband. Even a schoolchild can guess.

Nonsense.  There is no fast ethernet to residential houses in the UK.

Anyone reading this thread has experienced the effect of breaking one pair 100 times, and the author of the thread describes exactly what is happening. If you have experienced this effect on broadband, why don't you give an example of your unique experience (that no one else has)?

[ricko_uk]

Yes, I have rebooted the router.

BUT....
After reading all your replies, and double checked the connection, it turned out that I originally connected the orange and white wires to the orange and "not same shade white" wire contrary to what I was initially thought I did... 
(and they are solid steel instead of stranded, contrary to the other two)

The good thing is that it now runs at 3 times the previous speed (24MBps instead of .

The strange thing is that it now still doesn't run at full 35MBps (despite a proper splice).

The weird thing is that, despite the other white wires being only for strength as some of you wrote, it did work for a at 8MBps...??!!! Like just the capacitance between wires was allowed communication...?? At a full 8MBps??? That's a bit weird, isn't it??

[Postal2]

... That's a bit weird, isn't it??

By specifying a speed of 8 Mbit, you have exactly reproduced the situation when one pair is lost on fast ethernet.

In any case, you can try to connect the remaining wires randomly, it is absolutely safe.

[ricko_uk]

Thank you, I will try to do that.

What I also noticed is that the other 3 wires are all solid steel (someone might have mentioned it here too and it makes sense if they are for structural strength), while the two for the comms are stranded.

[Postal2]

... while the two for the comms are stranded.

If only one pair is twisted - of course it is broadband. I was mistaken, thinking that the Internet is delivered to you and your neighbor, and the router is hidden somewhere.

[coppice]

I wonder if the ducts were not fitted with a draw rope after the initial installation. In that case, pushing another cable through the duct would be extremely difficult. There is something I'm not sure about: what proportion of u/g telephony drops are direct buried rather than in a duct.

Does anyone bother with draw strings these days? I thought everything was blown now, especially fibre.

[Monkeh]

I wonder if the ducts were not fitted with a draw rope after the initial installation. In that case, pushing another cable through the duct would be extremely difficult. There is something I'm not sure about: what proportion of u/g telephony drops are direct buried rather than in a duct.

Does anyone bother with draw strings these days? I thought everything was blown now, especially fibre.

You have to get the 'straw' in to blow down.

OR gave up on bringing fibre down my street years ago with no explanation. Locals came along, swore a bit, cleaned out the collapsed duct for them and took all the business. They just don't want to do the work - I seem to recall they turned down or returned massive government grants as they "couldn't" spend the money. Well, everyone else seems to be able to..

[coppice]

I wonder if the ducts were not fitted with a draw rope after the initial installation. In that case, pushing another cable through the duct would be extremely difficult. There is something I'm not sure about: what proportion of u/g telephony drops are direct buried rather than in a duct.

Does anyone bother with draw strings these days? I thought everything was blown now, especially fibre.

You have to get the 'straw' in to blow down.

OR gave up on bringing fibre down my street years ago with no explanation. Locals came along, swore a bit, cleaned out the collapsed duct for them and took all the business. They just don't want to do the work - I seem to recall they turned down or returned massive government grants as they "couldn't" spend the money. Well, everyone else seems to be able to..

Quickline (one of these smaller fibre startups) have been through our village in the last couple of weeks, digging a lot. There must be a huge amount of collapse telecoms duct around.

[wasedadoc]

... That's a bit weird, isn't it??

By specifying a speed of 8 Mbit, you have exactly reproduced the situation when one pair is lost on fast ethernet.

Fast ethernet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Ethernet is irrelevant in this thread.  The OP is on a VDSL service.  Completely different signals on the wires.

[wasedadoc]

Yes, I have rebooted the router.

BUT....
After reading all your replies, and double checked the connection, it turned out that I originally connected the orange and white wires to the orange and "not same shade white" wire contrary to what I was initially thought I did... 
(and they are solid steel instead of stranded, contrary to the other two)

The good thing is that it now runs at 3 times the previous speed (24MBps instead of .

The strange thing is that it now still doesn't run at full 35MBps (despite a proper splice).

The weird thing is that, despite the other white wires being only for strength as some of you wrote, it did work for a at 8MBps...??!!! Like just the capacitance between wires was allowed communication...?? At a full 8MBps??? That's a bit weird, isn't it??

If you had responded to my first reply days ago asking about the phone, you and all the other responders might have saved a lot of time.

[Postal2]

Fast ethernet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Ethernet is irrelevant in this thread. ...

Very relevant. Especially if you don't know how Ethernet works.

... The OP is on a VDSL service.  ...

I know, I thought it was a shared line with a neighbor.

... Completely different signals on the wires.

Thanks captain, I became smarter.

[SteveThackery]

Does anyone bother with draw strings these days? I thought everything was blown now, especially fibre.

No, very little. Blown fibre requires a particular coating which is soft and very flexible, and totally unsuitable for exposure to the elements. Also, it requires the "straws" to be preinstalled, which begs the question, why not just install the fibre in the first place. It isn't possible to blow normal optical dropwire because it is far too stiff and heavy.

There was a time when a new building was kitted out with straws everywhere, which was cheaper than installing fibres everywhere. Fibre would be blown in only on demand. As the price of fibre cable has fallen, blown fibre is less and less cost effective.

There is probably some around, especially inside buildings, but I don't think there is very much in the OpenReach network. Some, but not much.

[IanB]

Slightly tangential, but isn't all copper to the home being phased out now in the UK? So presumably, the copper wires in the OP's case are due at some point to be deactivated?

[coppice]

Slightly tangential, but isn't all copper to the home being phased out now in the UK? So presumably, the copper wires in the OP's case are due at some point to be deactivated?

Everything will be deactivated at some point, but 100% fibre availability is some way off in the UK.

[IanB]

Everything will be deactivated at some point, but 100% fibre availability is some way off in the UK.

It doesn't have to be fibre. There are existing cable connections to many homes that will also support digital phone service.

Originally, all landlines were due to be switched off by 2025, but it seems this has been extended to 2027, and in the nature of things, it could be extended again. But really, this is not very far away.

[wasedadoc]

Slightly tangential, but isn't all copper to the home being phased out now in the UK? So presumably, the copper wires in the OP's case are due at some point to be deactivated?

There is a (currently paused) UK program to have all analogue phones no longer be directly on a copper pair to the local exchange. Instead they will plug into a Voice over IP unit, tyically within the VDSL modem Wi-Fi router at the customer location. Phone service will be over the broadband service. The broadband may be fibre or VDSL.

I believe that other countries including USA and Japan are doing likewise.