Author Topic: What Q1 and Q4 actually do?  (Read 1186 times)

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Offline 001Topic starter

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What Q1 and Q4 actually do?
« on: October 03, 2019, 12:57:58 pm »
Hi


Can You told me What Q1 and Q4 actually do? Is it good or bad schematic?
 

Offline amspire

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Re: What Q1 and Q4 actually do?
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2019, 01:08:47 pm »
They are acting as constant current sources. Q1 is providing a constant current source for the reference zener.

Q4's current is controlled by the current through D5 and D6. Q4 acts as a very high impedance on Q3's collector giving Q3 a very high voltage gain.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 01:13:34 pm by amspire »
 
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Offline TimFox

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Re: What Q1 and Q4 actually do?
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2019, 01:20:46 pm »
Q1 is a DC current source.  Q4 is a "current mirror".  There is a large literature about current mirrors, which are extremely useful BJT circuits.
 
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Online T3sl4co1l

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Re: What Q1 and Q4 actually do?
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2019, 03:27:34 pm »
D5 should be changed to a resistor, so that it actually serves as a mirror.  As given, it's more of a current source, which isn't much help to loop gain.

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Offline Zero999

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Re: What Q1 and Q4 actually do?
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2019, 03:53:09 pm »
Ideally D5 or D6 should be a BJT matched with Q4, with the base shorted to the collector and the other diode a resistor, as mentioned above. The BJT should have as closer VBE to Q4 as possible, given the same current and a similar hFE.
 
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Offline dom0

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Re: What Q1 and Q4 actually do?
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2019, 04:50:47 pm »
Circuit building blocks

D1+D2, R2, Q1, R3 are a constant current source,
which supplies constant current to zeners D9/D10 which provide relatively stable voltage sources. i.e. D9+D10 provide a stable supply voltage to what is connected to them.

Q2, Q3, R5 form a differential amplifier, with the current source D5,D6,R4,Q4 as a collector load, which isn't quite a good solution as others have pointed out. The DC operating point of the differential amplifier is set by the voltage over D10, thus the output voltage will be approximately U(D10) * (R9/R10+1), i.e. 200 V * 1.25 = 250 V.

M1 is a source follower driven from the output of the differential amplifier (which is taken from either of the collectors, depending on intended polarity).
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 04:54:03 pm by dom0 »
,
 
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Offline 001Topic starter

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Re: What Q1 and Q4 actually do?
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2019, 05:02:42 pm »
THANX A LOT

But at least
…is it circuit good or bad?
 

Offline thinkfat

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Re: What Q1 and Q4 actually do?
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2019, 05:04:28 pm »
Do D1 and D2 also serve as temperature compensation for the reference zeners?
Everybody likes gadgets. Until they try to make them.
 

Offline 001Topic starter

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Re: What Q1 and Q4 actually do?
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2019, 05:04:43 pm »

Q2, Q3, R5 form a differential amplifier, with the current source D5,D6,R4,Q4 as a collector load, which isn't quite a good solution as others have pointed out. The DC operating point of the differential amplifier is set by the voltage over D10, thus the output voltage will be approximately U(D10) * (R9/R10+1), i.e. 200 V * 1.25 = 250 V.

Is it dangerous? Can You post better design idea?
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: What Q1 and Q4 actually do?
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2019, 05:46:57 pm »
The original Duncan's Amp Pages schematic is http://www.duncanamps.com/technical/mosfet.html
(you can use google translate with the URL, it might help)

Rated 325-500VDC input and 250V output. No mention of current rating.
SOA limits of IRF830 are only pulse rated- no DC curves. Q1 will run hot. I would use a 15V zener for D12.
I would say the circuit is fine, but I would like to see some current limiting and a better mosfet.

What do you need for voltage and current?
 
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Offline 001Topic starter

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Re: What Q1 and Q4 actually do?
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2019, 07:35:32 pm »
250-350v and at least 120mA will be ok
 


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