Author Topic: Different die pictures  (Read 116490 times)

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline NoopyTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1879
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Re: Different die pictures
« Reply #350 on: September 04, 2024, 06:22:30 pm »


The SAB8068 is the Siemens variant of the 8086 processor. The index 1 indicates the fastest binning with a maximum clock of 10 MHz.






The dimensions of the die are approximately 4,5mm x 4,4mm. The various functional blocks of the processor are clearly visible.

This image is also available in a higher resolution: https://www.richis-lab.de/images/cpu/11x02XL.jpg (40MB)




M202 could be an internal project name.




There is a charge pump on the top edge that generates a negative voltage. The negative potential is fed to the base of the package and thus to the substrate via a bondpad. The same circuit was integrated a second time at the bottom edge, where a bondwire also leads to the base of the package. The negative substrate potential optimises the characteristic curves of the integrated transistors.


https://www.richis-lab.de/cpu10.htm

 :-/O
 
The following users thanked this post: RoGeorge, ch_scr, D Straney

Offline quadtech

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 69
  • Country: in
Re: Different die pictures
« Reply #351 on: September 08, 2024, 01:52:10 pm »
 

Offline NoopyTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1879
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Re: Different die pictures
« Reply #352 on: September 13, 2024, 09:09:29 am »


The SAB80186 was a very old part on my website. I have update this part now.  8)

The SAB80186 was produced by Siemens and is based on the Intel 80186. The processor shown here operates at a clock frequency of 8MHz. There is also the bin SAB80186-1 which allows operation at 10MHz.




The datasheet contains a block diagram of the SAB80186, which is still quite good to understand.




The dimensions of the die are 8,1mm x 7,3mm. The individual functional blocks are clearly visible. Siemens used a so-called MYMOS process, that´s a n-channel silicon gate process.

This image is also available in a higher resolution: https://www.richis-lab.de/images/186/07XL.jpg (100MB)






The copyright clearly shows that the architecture was licensed from Intel. The meaning of the characters EZM remains unclear.




M239 seems to be a typical Siemens internal project designation. A21 could stand for a revision.


https://www.richis-lab.de/IC_01.htm

 :-/O
 
The following users thanked this post: RoGeorge, ch_scr, D Straney

Offline Abdull

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 1
  • Country: 00
Re: Different die pictures
« Reply #353 on: September 13, 2024, 10:08:44 am »


The SAB80186 was produced by Siemens and is based on the Intel 80186.



The meaning of the characters EZM remains unclear.

"EZM" could mean "Entwicklungszentrum für Mikroelektronik Ges.m.b.H". As pointed out in a 1979 press release, the EZM integrated circuits research and development unit was founded by Siemens and Austria in Villach, Austria (Austrian commercial register entry).
 
The following users thanked this post: Noopy

Offline NoopyTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1879
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Re: Different die pictures
« Reply #354 on: September 13, 2024, 10:28:14 am »
Thanks for the hint!
That sounds pretty reasonable.
 
The following users thanked this post: Abdull

Offline NoopyTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1879
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Re: Different die pictures
« Reply #355 on: September 16, 2024, 02:14:15 pm »




An here is an update for the Intel i486SX!

In contrast to the DX variants of the 80486, the Intel i486SX does not have a floating point unit. It can be operated at a maximum clock frequency of 33MHz.




In order to be able to lead the many potentials of the processor to the outside, they were placed on two levels of the ceramic package.




The dimensions of the die are 10,6mm x 7,0mm. This image is also available in a higher resolution: https://www.richis-lab.de/images/486SX/17XL.jpg (116MB)




The i486SX is a separate variant, it is not just binned. A corresponding designation can therefore also be found on the die.




According to Wikipedia, the minimum structure width of the process used here is 1µm.


https://www.richis-lab.de/IC_02.htm

 :-/O
 
The following users thanked this post: macboy, RoGeorge, ch_scr, D Straney

Online RoGeorge

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6663
  • Country: ro
Re: Different die pictures
« Reply #356 on: September 16, 2024, 10:57:55 pm »
Wow!  Didn't know bonding wires can be on more than one level.  Have you seen other chips like this?

Offline D Straney

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 241
  • Country: us
Re: Different die pictures
« Reply #357 on: September 16, 2024, 11:22:24 pm »
Anything high-pin-count, really - here's an ASIC from a probable rocket engine controller:
 
The following users thanked this post: RoGeorge

Offline NoopyTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1879
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Re: Different die pictures
« Reply #358 on: September 17, 2024, 02:45:38 am »
Yes, that´s not that special.

I can´t say where but I´m pretty sure I have seen packages with three steps to give enough room for connecting the bondwires.  :-+
 
The following users thanked this post: RoGeorge

Offline NoopyTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1879
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Re: Different die pictures
« Reply #359 on: September 23, 2024, 01:37:16 pm »


Do you remember the ATtiny841?

High res: https://www.richis-lab.de/images/uC/04x04XL.jpg





If you remove the metal and polysilicon layers, it becomes clearer where the various functional blocks have been integrated. As was to be expected, the large memory area is located under the solid metal surface. The relatively large square area in the bottom right-hand corner contains the SRAM. To the left of the SRAM, a square structure can be seen, which was also found in the ATtiny10 (https://www.richis-lab.de/uC03.htm). It contains the registers for configuring inputs and outputs, timers, ADCs and similar functions. The relationship between the ATtiny10 and the ATtiny841 can be clearly seen in many places.

High res: https://www.richis-lab.de/images/uC/05x05XL.jpg




The flash memory has the same structure as in the ATtiny10, it is just larger. In contrast to the ATtiny10, however, the ATtiny841 also contains an EEPROM. The EEPROM is located above the flash memory and stands out visually. The proportions show why usually just a small amount of EEPROM is integrated in microcontrollers. At 8kB, the flash memory is sixteen times as large as the EEPROM at 512B. However, the space required by the memory cells is only eight times as large.

The selection and evaluation circuits can be seen around the memory areas. The capacitors of the charge pumps, whose higher voltage is required to write to the memory cells, appear to be integrated at the left edge of the image.




In detail, the flash and EEPROM memory cells differ only slightly. At this level, both memory types work very similarly. In flash memory, however, memory cells can only be written in groups.

The EEPROM consists of 132*32 cells. It therefore contains 128 Bits in addition to the program memory, which can be used for lock bits or similar functionalities. The flash memory has 130*512 memory cells. There are 1024 bits in the background.


https://www.richis-lab.de/uC04.htm

 :-/O
 
The following users thanked this post: RoGeorge, D Straney

Offline NoopyTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1879
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Re: Different die pictures
« Reply #360 on: Yesterday at 03:03:09 am »


Not a die, not a semiconductor.  ;D Here you can see an SMD quartz resonator built by NDK. The history of the Japanese company NDK goes back to 1948. In addition to quartz resonators, NDK's product range also includes oscillators and SAW filters. The NX5032SD can resonant at frequencies between 9.75MHz and 40MHz. The model shown here oscillates at 26MHz, which can be seen in the first line. In the second line, there are two numbers next to the NDK logo, which usually represent a type of datecode. The NX5032SD is certified according to AEC-Q200 for use in the automotive sector and allows accelerations of up to 2,000g.






The dimensions of the package are 4,9mm x 3,1mm. Inside is a square quartz crystal to which square electrodes have been applied. The crystal is attached on the left-hand side and is also electrically contacted via this attachment.


https://www.richis-lab.de/xtal_01.htm  :-/O
 
The following users thanked this post: RoGeorge, ch_scr

Offline D Straney

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 241
  • Country: us
Re: Different die pictures
« Reply #361 on: Yesterday at 04:51:42 am »
Interesting looking at the different attachment methods: a quick survey of the oscillator modules I've opened (from a variety of applications, high-rel. avionics stuff to telecom to standard commercial) shows only circular discs, fixed at both ends.

So it stood out to me, that your crystal is a long, thin cantilever beam, instead of a wide circle supported at both ends.  However, all of mine are much larger than ~3x4 mm, even in the same frequency ballpark (12 Mhz - 40 Mhz).  I'm guessing the geometry has to change to shrink the size while keeping the frequency similar: because a beam supported at both ends is drastically stiffer than a cantilevered beam (with one end unsupported), its (1st-mode) resonant frequency will be much higher.  So by moving from a doubly-supported wide shape to a narrower cantilever, that probably lowers the shape-dependent resonant frequency, which counteracts the drastic increase in resonant frequency from the smaller dimensions.
...if that makes sense.
 
The following users thanked this post: RoGeorge, ch_scr

Offline NoopyTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1879
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Re: Different die pictures
« Reply #362 on: Yesterday at 08:41:35 am »
I agree with you. Usually you see this circular discs. It seems they had to build different geometries for the small packages that are used today. And your explanation that the single support decreases the shape-dependent frequency sounds reasonable too.  :-+

I´m surprised this single support quartz is stable enough for an acceleration of 2.000g.  :box:

Offline T3sl4co1l

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 22307
  • Country: us
  • Expert, Analog Electronics, PCB Layout, EMC
    • Seven Transistor Labs
Re: Different die pictures
« Reply #363 on: Yesterday at 02:53:23 pm »
Outline doesn't matter much: these are flextural mode crystals, with the waves confined between electrodes, making some kind of... bulk shear mode wave, I think it is?  And then obviously that wave is confined between boundaries so 1/2 wave is the lowest resonance, and n+(1/2) wave overtones beyond that.

The outline (of electrode and wafer) control how waves from the local area spread out and reflect around; reflections will give spurious tones, probably of poor coupling for the most part (narrow spectral lines, low amplitude), and mode conversion to longitudinal, surface-acoustic and beam modes will give all other manner of tones, mostly at frequencies well outside of the oscillator bandwidth, but occasionally splitting poles, i.e. making resonances near the main mode, or when nonlinearity is included so that once the main oscillation starts up, other modes can potentially mix in (good luck probing those, lol, and the oscillator doesn't care once started up on the main peak, but to say in principle at least?).

You can imagine something like... if you find some spur modes that couple into surface waves, and then you start the cantilever oscillating (1/4, 3/4, etc. wave as the case may be), you've got modes on top of modes and could get some FM (manifests as spurs splitting into peaks), analogous to the warpy-woobly sound of a sheet of metal being flexed around, but in specific controlled modes and rates.

The bulk shear mode of course is largely immune to such effects, so is a good choice as dominant oscillation mode.

In any case, all those spurious modes will vary with how much space they have to fill, and the ratio between OD (outer diameter, or outer dimensions) and overlapping electrodes (dia/dimensions) will have something to do with the relative amplitude, spacing and abundance of those modes.

Tim
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 

Offline D Straney

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 241
  • Country: us
Re: Different die pictures
« Reply #364 on: Today at 01:50:55 am »
Huh interesting, good to know - I obviously haven't worked out the macro-scale resonant parameters based on typical quartz Young's modulus & dimensions (would probably be orders of magnitude off, then), but given the frequency I guess it shouldn't be surprising it's much smaller-scale propagation, and not damped by air resistance etc. the way it would be if it was actually bending the crystal lengthwise.  Sounds like it's the thickness that's really the key parameter then.

In that case, wonder why it's arranged as a cantilever in the Noopy's small crystal: only reason I can think of as a non-expert here is that it's about giving it a non-rigid mounting for some level of vibration isolation (and/or CTE mismatch between it and the package, over the longest dimension?) - the discs are mounted on flexible bent pins, and some even sit on wound springs (see the top-right one in my photos above).  Can imagine it was harder to isolate the smaller crystal that way within the form-fitting package and low height - maybe the manufacturing process wouldn't have worked with some flexible crystal posts bonded on the inside, and it was easier to just mount it rigidly at one end, and use the bulk material properties of the quartz to give it flexibility.

Offline NoopyTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1879
  • Country: de
    • Richis-Lab
Re: Different die pictures
« Reply #365 on: Today at 02:59:33 am »
The story behind the quartz resonators is complex. Every time I hear details it seems like a micracle that they usually resonate in the way they are specified.  :phew:


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf