"Let's get down to brass tacks"

[Konkedout]

Thank you for that great link.  I would like to see some of those photos in greater magnification/detail.  I had tried something vaguely similar to interconnect SMT parts maybe a year ago but my copper connection islands did not stay put. 

However just yesterday I wanted to build something relatively non-critical.  Driving a complementary pair (MPSA06 and MPSA56; both TO-92) with AC coupled 20 KHz drive from a function generator.  Some ancient disc ceramic capacitors, old radial electrolytics and axial resistors.  Power is 40V DC from a lab source.  The wood is maybe 1/4" thick.  Some soft type from a packing crate.  It was amazingly easy to drill 1/16" diameter holes just where I wanted them, using what was my Dad's hand crank drill; it might be 80 years old.

I threw this together and tested it (working OK) in a few hours time.

[Konkedout]

Gosh it appears that Dave Richards is not just an engineer, but he is also a craftsman.  Some beautiful handiwork.  I am wondering about those node-island-squares; just what they are and how they are made?

[jpanhalt]

I didn't see any square lands on the main boards.  They all looked like square plates glued or soldered to the main board.  If I were to try isolated square lands, I would use a mill, unless a sloppy job with a Dremel and burr would suffice.  That's what I use to cut traces on the protoboards I use.  Round lands are easy with a brad point drill.  The few times I have done that type of construction for filters, I used a miniature table saw with carbide-tipped blade to cut nice rectilinear pads.  Isolated single pads were done with a brad point drill.  If you have a rigid setup, you can omit the center point on the drll.

[langwadt]

I didn't see any square lands on the main boards.  They all looked like square plates glued or soldered to the main board.  If I were to try isolated square lands, I would use a mill, unless a sloppy job with a Dremel and burr would suffice.  That's what I use to cut traces on the protoboards I use.  Round lands are easy with a brad point drill.  The few times I have done that type of construction for filters, I used a miniature table saw with carbide-tipped blade to cut nice rectilinear pads.  Isolated single pads were done with a brad point drill.  If you have a rigid setup, you can omit the center point on the drll.

with thin fr4 is is easy to make round pads with a hole punch and just superglue them onto the base pcb

[IanB]

with thin fr4 is is easy to make round pads with a hole punch and just superglue them onto the base pcb

Does the superglue get weakened with the heat of soldering?

[tggzzz]

I didn't see any square lands on the main boards.  They all looked like square plates glued or soldered to the main board.  If I were to try isolated square lands, I would use a mill, unless a sloppy job with a Dremel and burr would suffice.  That's what I use to cut traces on the protoboards I use.  Round lands are easy with a brad point drill.  The few times I have done that type of construction for filters, I used a miniature table saw with carbide-tipped blade to cut nice rectilinear pads.  Isolated single pads were done with a brad point drill.  If you have a rigid setup, you can omit the center point on the drll.

with thin fr4 is is easy to make round pads with a hole punch and just superglue them onto the base pcb

Use a Dremel with a dental bur (spherical is good, but not necessary) to cut through the copper. Doesn't take much expertise before you can hand-cut lands for a 0.1" pitch IC/connector/etc.

In other words, build a subcircuit, then plonk the next IC/component down wherever it turns out to be convenient.

Not particularly pretty, but functional and good enough to ship, e.g.

[tggzzz]

with thin fr4 is is easy to make round pads with a hole punch and just superglue them onto the base pcb

Does the superglue get weakened with the heat of soldering?

I haven't noticed a problem. Components help hold the pads in place. If a problem, use a different adhesive

How much shear force do you expect to apply?

[janoc]

with thin fr4 is is easy to make round pads with a hole punch and just superglue them onto the base pcb

Does the superglue get weakened with the heat of soldering?

No, or at least not that much that it would matter for a prototype. I have even used doublesided tape for this, which does soften and makes the pad slide around while soldering, which is a pain. But easier to remove and reposition if you need to than a superglue. Some people even use the self-adhesive copper tape for this but there one needs to take care because some of those adhesives are conductive and/or the copper doesn't actually have an insulating backing - the glue is directly on the metal layer.

OTOH, superglue doesn't stick to copper all that well, so if you do end up needing to mod the board, the pad usually pops right off with a bit of force.

[tggzzz]

with thin fr4 is is easy to make round pads with a hole punch and just superglue them onto the base pcb

Does the superglue get weakened with the heat of soldering?

No, or at least not that much that it would matter for a prototype. I have even used doublesided tape for this, which does soften and makes the pad slide around, which is a pain. But easier to remove and reposition if you need to than a superglue.

Agreed, but I would change "makes the pad slide around" to "allows the pad to slide around".

Still not a significant problem in my experience, merely something you get used to - like a component lead moving before the fixed in place by the solder.

[janoc]

Still not a significant problem in my experience, merely something you get used to - like a component lead moving before the fixed in place by the solder.

Yes, exactly. For prototypes it rarely matters and if one needs more mechanical strength one needs to use other ways of fixing the components anyway.

[langwadt]

I didn't see any square lands on the main boards.  They all looked like square plates glued or soldered to the main board.  If I were to try isolated square lands, I would use a mill, unless a sloppy job with a Dremel and burr would suffice.  That's what I use to cut traces on the protoboards I use.  Round lands are easy with a brad point drill.  The few times I have done that type of construction for filters, I used a miniature table saw with carbide-tipped blade to cut nice rectilinear pads.  Isolated single pads were done with a brad point drill.  If you have a rigid setup, you can omit the center point on the drll.

with thin fr4 is is easy to make round pads with a hole punch and just superglue them onto the base pcb

Use a Dremel with a dental bur (spherical is good, but not necessary) to cut through the copper. Doesn't take much expertise before you can hand-cut lands for a 0.1" pitch IC/connector/etc.

In other words, build a subcircuit, then plonk the next IC/component down wherever it turns out to be convenient.

Not particularly pretty, but functional and good enough to ship, e.g.

the top one is gold plated, the guy that made them occasionally orders a batch of bare pcbs with ENIG   

They weren't made for shipping but for figuring out if a concept will work

[IanB]

Use a Dremel with a dental bur (spherical is good, but not necessary) to cut through the copper. Doesn't take much expertise before you can hand-cut lands for a 0.1" pitch IC/connector/etc.

Missing solder?

[RoGeorge]

Any other ideas?

I would give up the temporary/plug-able parts idea, and use properly soldered part instead of a breadboard.  As for what to use as an improvised mechanical support, almost any non conductive sheets of material will work.

For proper PCB prototyping, there are many ways if you search online.  w2aew made a video about a few of these:
#122: Electronic Circuit Construction Techniques: review of some prototype circuit building methods

[tggzzz]

Use a Dremel with a dental bur (spherical is good, but not necessary) to cut through the copper. Doesn't take much expertise before you can hand-cut lands for a 0.1" pitch IC/connector/etc.

Missing solder?

Looks like you might be right!

[tggzzz]

They weren't made for shipping but for figuring out if a concept will work

The two aren't mutually exclusive, of course.

I've shipped prototypes and concept demos.

There's a whole spectrum between a blackboard sketch and a mass production product. Choose whatever  is convenient.

[jpanhalt]

Use a Dremel with a dental bur (spherical is good, but not necessary) to cut through the copper. Doesn't take much expertise before you can hand-cut lands for a 0.1" pitch IC/connector/etc.

I suspect you didn't detect my little bit of sarcasm about being sloppy.  What you describe is exactly what I do with my favorite Dremel.  I prefer by far the smallest round burr in my set.   I have three Dremel hand  tools, but my favorite is the oldest and goes way back to pre-1970.  It's small, light, and doesn't have a lot of useless plastic and rubber in the case.  I easily cut between 0.1" traces (shown in other boards I have posted).  I can cut a relatively straight line, but not as good as those cut on a mill pr table saw.   

[Xena E]

with thin fr4 is is easy to make round pads with a hole punch and just superglue them onto the base pcb

You do have to be a little cautious with HF  circuits as using this method, capacitance between the pads and a ground plane can be a significant issue: more so when using very thin laminate.

[tggzzz]

with thin fr4 is is easy to make round pads with a hole punch and just superglue them onto the base pcb

You do have to be a little cautious with HF  circuits as using this method, capacitance between the pads and a ground plane can be a significant issue: more so when using very thin laminate.

It can also be a benefit, when combined with the track inductance and a groudplane. There used to be a range of (Wainwright?) stick on tracks with 50ohm impedance.

[janoc]

with thin fr4 is is easy to make round pads with a hole punch and just superglue them onto the base pcb

You do have to be a little cautious with HF  circuits as using this method, capacitance between the pads and a ground plane can be a significant issue: more so when using very thin laminate.

That method is pretty common in amateur radio exactly for building HF circuits (see the examples I have posted above). On HF the parasitic capacitance of the pad to the ground plane is still negligible (few pF) compared to the frequencies one works at (<30MHz). If you used a regular PCB and a ground plane, you would have comparable amounts of capacitance. One needs to understand what one is doing, regardless of how the circuit is being built. 

Manhattan style construction is otherwise pretty OK with a bit of care up to several GHz.

[Xena E]

with thin fr4 is is easy to make round pads with a hole punch and just superglue them onto the base pcb

You do have to be a little cautious with HF  circuits as using this method, capacitance between the pads and a ground plane can be a significant issue: more so when using very thin laminate.

That method is pretty common in amateur radio exactly for building HF circuits (see the examples I have posted above). On HF the parasitic capacitance of the pad to the ground plane is still negligible (few pF) compared to the frequencies one works at (<30MHz). If you used a regular PCB and a ground plane, you would have comparable amounts of capacitance. One needs to understand what one is doing, regardless of how the circuit is being built. 

Manhattan style construction is otherwise pretty OK with a bit of care up to several GHz.

Agreed,  I was only making the comment as a caution to someone fresh to the technique.

I have though made it a policy not to use thin stock for the pads if it's for use in tuned circuits, a "few pF" is significant at 100Mhz for instance, not a show stopper but it has to be worked around, just as one has to with parasitic inductance.

Regards.
X

[Xena E]

with thin fr4 is is easy to make round pads with a hole punch and just superglue them onto the base pcb

You do have to be a little cautious with HF  circuits as using this method, capacitance between the pads and a ground plane can be a significant issue: more so when using very thin laminate.

It can also be a benefit, when combined with the track inductance and a groudplane. There used to be a range of (Wainwright?) stick on tracks with 50ohm impedance.

Also agreed.

You either take time to understand it and make it work for you, or you have to fight it.

I did some 433Mhz work in academia that was a bit hairy until I realised the the capacitors and inductors were often parasitic and even RF gradients in ground planes had to be dealt with.

All good fun.

Regards,
X

[Xena E]

These are very good indeed, if a little expensive. (I'm too tight to buy but I've seen beautiful work done with them).

https://www.qrpme.com/?p=product&id=MESB

Edit for correct link

[RoGeorge]

We use to do repetitive patterns like those on a PCB by simply scratching the copper clad with a sharp metal beak/tooth made out of a blade or a screwdriver corner filed like a scratching tooth (and a metal ruler - to make straight scratches).  It was as easy as drawing lines on a paper, just that the line has to be repeated 3-4 times without moving the metal ruler, until the copper is scratched away completely.

For RF, usually a ground plane helps a lot, because the RF return path follows the shape of the wires above the ground plane (follows the smallest loop area), so less parasitic inductance, less parasitic capacitance (wires are usually farthest from the ground plane then they will be with PCB traces), and the ground plane offers some shielding, too.

[pqass]

These are very good indeed, if a little expensive. (I'm too tight to buy but I've seen beautiful work done with them).

https://www.qrpme.com/?p=product&id=MESB

I can see them being reproduced by table saw, sled, 45° blade  (or router with V-bit) cutting V-grooves every 200mils in a single sided FR4.


But for quick-n-dirty hacking I use no-copper perfboard (US$0.12/in²). It's reliable and reusable too.

[janoc]

Agreed,  I was only making the comment as a caution to someone fresh to the technique.

I have though made it a policy not to use thin stock for the pads if it's for use in tuned circuits, a "few pF" is significant at 100Mhz for instance, not a show stopper but it has to be worked around, just as one has to with parasitic inductance.

Regards.
X

A common trick is to use 1M through-hole resistors as standoffs - one end to the ground plane, the other end is used as a solder point for the signal connections. Then you are away from the ground plane so the capacitance is insignificant and the resistor won't impact the circuit.