Hydrochloric Acid small volume (<=1L) NZ (Christchurch) ?

[sleemanj]

I'm down to the last of my HCl (for etching and other uses) which I bought some years ago from Bunnings (Diggers brand), jumped on the site to check availability and it seems that it's no longer sold.

In fact the only place I can find on the google locally in Christchurch for a simple retail sale is Mitre 10 and they only do 5 L containers, which would last me well into the next life I suppose but don't really want to have that much of it kicking about or spend the 50 something bucks for it. 

Anybody seen 1L or less volumes of it around retail?  Concentration isn't too important.

Seems Bunnings sells it under Bondall brand in Australia but not here.

Whenever people asked me what etchant to use I always pointed them at HCl from Bunnings and Peroxide from Trade Me sellers.  Even Jaycar NZ doesn't seem to sell etchant any more.

[coppercone2]

you can use h2so4 and salt to make HCl gas (bubble into deep column of water) to make a small amount. Not 100% sure but you might be able to get it from a old car battery if your really cheap

I think it would work best with ice water to absorb as much gas as possible

[sleemanj]

You can't buy H2SO4 around here either, draining from a car battery would certainly be a last resort :/

I suspect it's new legislation in the last ~8-10 years regards hazardous substances, probably has nixed supplies, especially small volumes.  That said, peculiarly, strong hydrogen peroxide is no trouble at all to get hold of.

[RoGeorge]

Maybe you can find Ferric Chloride instead.  Normal etching with FeCl₃ takes longer, but the sponge method is much better, and fast:  https://www.instructables.com/Sponge-Ferric-Chloride-Method-Etch-Circuit-Bo/

[sleemanj]

FECl3 is pretty much unavailable in small quantities (and not even in larger quantities) either, the only site I found in NZ that looked like it might sell to the public was in 2.5kg packs, at over $60 NZD + shipping.

Maybe the "vinegar, salt and peroxide" is the best that could be recommended to somebody just wanting to etch an occasional PCB these days.

[magic]

sodium persulphate?

[sleemanj]

> sodium persulphate

Hmm.  No, but Jaycar sold Ammonium Persulphate, but seems no longer in NZ.

There is one website I found that still lists Ammonium Persulphate locally in the same small packs Jaycar had, but the site was developed in 2013 and doesn't look like it's been updated much since, so might be just wishful thinking. 

Still, perhaps worth pointing people to https://www.electroflash.co.nz/categories/display/126

Of course Ammonium Persulphate has problems and I understand a bit of a pain to use, requiring heat and not being reusable (so more disposal issues) etc.

[IanB]

Just on the off-chance, you could try "muriatic acid" as a search term, instead of hydrochloric acid?

I think it might be used in the building trade for surface treatment of concrete, so you might find it under building supplies?

Otherwise, you would probably have to look to a scientific supply house.

[sleemanj]

Yes searched Muriatic, also Spirit of Salt, Spirits of Salt, Spirit of Salts, which are archaic terms for it.

Can get 5L of it as Spirit of Salts - https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/xl-spirit-of-salts-5-litre/p/376768

I'm actually ok for etching myself, I have plenty of CuCl2 in the shed to use for that with H2O2, it's more for other NZ'rs who ask me now and then what they can use.

I have other uses for HCl though, having a bottle around comes in handy now and then.

[BrokenYugo]

Maybe a pool/hot tub store? Where I'm from I've never seen it in a hardware store in anything but gallon jugs labeled "muriatic" for etching concrete and pool pH adjustment.

[mikerj]

Builders merchants and some DIY stores sell it as brick cleaner in the UK.

[JDubU]

https://www.nzchemicalsuppliers.co.nz/content/page/hydrochloric-acid

[Peabody]

Anyone with a swimming pool should be able to refill your bottle for you.  Or a pool service company.

[Xena E]

Hydrochloric acid is also used in the boiler trade for descaling industrial boilers... another possible source?

[5U4GB]

Anyone with a swimming pool should be able to refill your bottle for you.  Or a pool service company.

Beat me to it.  Yup, try calling pool companies and say you need a tiny amount at 10% or so, you may be able to score some for free since it's usually handled in 20L or 50L carboys at a fairly respectable concentrations that could be diluted down to a larger amount.  Similarly, you could try places like Labsupply and get a tiny amount at a higher concentration, then dilute it down to the level you want.

[Jeroen3]

Your local paint store?

[IanB]

1 litro de cocacola contiene 100mL de hidrocloric acid, hierve a 100Gc y despues de un rato quedara el acido en el fondo del envase ervidor

Two ways this is wrong:

1. Coca Cola certainly does not contain hydrochloric acid 
2. Hydrochloric acid is a gas (HCl), so if you boil a solution of hydrochloric acid it will all disappear and nothing will be left behind.

[coppercone2]

I personally think the safest way is to maintain high employment by having as big a variety of businesses as possible, to have people that might happen to learn relevant skills while playing, so you don't get shanked for a loaf of bread in the 'safe' environment when someones welfare got delayed. I think all these laws have a chilling effect on chemistry related industries, that while might not be glamorous, do keep people fed. 

For instance with draconian safety regulations at work, they might have to pay through the nose for me to get a small prototype part nickel plated in a exploratory design phase. And I know other engineers avoid plating like the plague because it means business to business crap. I would love to exercise a bit of caution and careful thinking + graceful conduct and get everyone a tiny christmas bonus or something instead.

all that small scale kids home chemistry was a bit like having ROTC experience or something.. it was never just a class, you had to manage a tiny business like operation yourself, and you learned responsibility and consequence in addition to the science.

[wilfred]

I should have read the first post earlier. I thought I'd seen it in Bunnings here in Aus. I notice on the Australian Bunnings website it has a link to the datasheet. That has a NZ contact for the local distributor. Try giving them a call to see if it is available locally somewhere. I can only think Bunnings doesn't stock it in NZ because NZ is a smaller market and they don't want to bother with a potentially hazardous product  for low sales volume.

NZ can have different safety rules from Australia but surely they'd try to not do that wherever possible. It wouldn't help trade across the ditch.

[jonpaul]

Plumbers and builders use it for cleaning and descaling pipes before joining.

We saw gallon jugs marked "Muraitic Acid" at building sites in NYC.

Just ask some contractors, they may give you some for free.

Jon

[Sacodepatatas]

I read you and got astonished. Hydrochloric acid is sold here in Spain everywhere, from dollar stores, supermarkets, regular markets, flea markets and so on. It is often used as household cleaning product, and bleach is its companion. It is also cheap as f*uck, less than 1€/L or 3€/5L.