How are moderators allowed to lie?

[DejanC]

Tesla was a cheat, a liar and a charlatan. There is no real evidence that he invented anything. The one thing that poor old Westinghouse paid him for he took years to get to work after he sold Westinghouse the patents. Oddly someone else came up with an electric motor at the same time.... hm. Everything else was a scam.

Any wonderous thing you find on the internet with Tesla's name on it is also being pedaled by a cheat, a liar or a charlatan, just like the man himself.

How is this an acceptable take about Nikola Tesla, one of the greatest inventors of our time?

[pcprogrammer]

How is this an acceptable take about Nikola Tesla, one of the greatest inventors of our time?

Were you there at the time he was around?

If not then how can you be so sure he was a great inventor?

That is the problem with history, it often is open to interpretation and can also be biased by whom ever wrote it down. You can see the same on the internet in modern day. Open for many interpretations and often way besides the truth.

An important thing is to make up your own mind based on lots of research and who has the time to go through many publications to actually look for what might be the truth.

It would be nice if you add a link to the post your quote originates from, so we can see the context in which the statement is made.

[themadhippy]

How is this an acceptable take about Nikola Tesla, one of the greatest inventors of our time?

some say the same about Edison,others call him a nothing more than a fraud who stole ideas from others.

[Kjelt]

This is the post I guess.
Moderators are normal persons they are allowed to make private opiniated personal posts.
It is more interesting to discuss the video, is it correct or is it social media garbage ?
   I vote for the first, she shows facts, documentation, articles. But indeed charlatan is a too big word since he did invent that motor......

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/teslas-radiant-energy-experiments/msg5599659/#msg5599659

[DejanC]

So they can have opinions and shut down and lock a thread based on their opinions?

If Tesla died broke, doesn't that point to him not having the influence to be able to claim an invention over all others?

He has a SI Unit named after him but he's a fraud. So then EVERYONE is a fraud.

[IanB]

It is more interesting to discuss the video, is it correct or is it social media garbage ?

There is nothing to discuss in the video, which is why the thread got locked. It just descended into pages of conspiracy theory stuff.

(For the record, someone spent an hour doing electrical demonstrations in a home workshop. All were demonstrations anyone could do, and many have. Where the video lacked value was there was no explanation of what was being demonstrated, no description of the underlying theory, and no whiteboard discussion of what was being observed and why. So the whole thing really lacked interest and was too boring to watch all the way through.)

[Kjelt]

Oh did not know it was locked. I referred to the video Simon posted about the EE historian about Tesla.
I never saw the rest of the topic 

[DejanC]

Oh did not know it was locked. I referred to the video Simon posted about the EE historian about Tesla.

That's what I'm saying. How is it allowed to call Tesla a fraud and lock the thread, but if I post a video about Radiant Energy experiments asking for a reference to modern textbooks, effects or other similar videos it gets locked?

[wraper]

So was Tesla valve a scam as well? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_valve
Quickly scrolled through that video and it looks like its pretense is based on strawman.

[tszaboo]

Meh.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ányos_Jedlik Invented the electric motor, dynamo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottó_Bláthy Invented the transformer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miksa_Déri Invented the closed loop controlled electric AC generator.
They also put all these into manufacturing.

Tesla and Edison played with electricity.

[tooki]

Tesla was a cheat, a liar and a charlatan. There is no real evidence that he invented anything. The one thing that poor old Westinghouse paid him for he took years to get to work after he sold Westinghouse the patents. Oddly someone else came up with an electric motor at the same time.... hm. Everything else was a scam.

Any wonderous thing you find on the internet with Tesla's name on it is also being pedaled by a cheat, a liar or a charlatan, just like the man himself.

How is this an acceptable take about Nikola Tesla, one of the greatest inventors of our time?

He’s entitled to his opinion, and Simon certainly has the tendency to take very extreme positions on things. I guess that’s his personality. I don’t fully agree with him, but I don’t really agree with you, either.

On the video he posted, I made this YouTube comment 2 years ago, which I think is a more balanced take on the matter:

This video mirrors what I have told people for years. What’s weird about Tesla is that it’s just this century that the history about him went all wacky. As someone who was aware of Tesla and his accomplishments long before that, it was really weird to see him go from “guy who invented a practical AC motor” known by nerds only, to “techno wizard visionary” revered by quacks and laypersons.

So they can have opinions and shut down and lock a thread based on their opinions?

Well, it does look bad to post such a strong opinion as the closing post, insofar as it makes it look like it’s just a way to sneak in the last word. But I agree with IanB that the intent was likely just to not continue discussing Tesla quackery.

As I said 2 years ago: quacks and non-technical laypersons have come to deify Tesla to a degree (and in a direction) that is not actually supported by his work. I don’t think he was a charlatan, but I think he had a lot of ideas that were more or less fantasy. For some reason, some non-technical people latched onto that aspect of his work and glorify him based on it, which ultimately leads to some of them basically flogging quackery.

If Tesla died broke, doesn't that point to him not having the influence to be able to claim an invention over all others?

Huh?

He has a SI Unit named after him but he's a fraud. So then EVERYONE is a fraud.

Oh please, can we not descend into that level of “discourse”?

[DejanC]

Meh.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ányos_Jedlik Invented the electric motor, dynamo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottó_Bláthy Invented the transformer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miksa_Déri Invented the closed loop controlled electric AC generator.
They also put all these into manufacturing.

Tesla and Edison played with electricity.

No one claimed he invented THE electric motor, or THE transformer. He invented his induction motor/generator and Tesla transformer, AC systems, X-ray and many others. Please look up his 200+ patents

[pcprogrammer]

I agree that locking the thread directly after the last post being from a moderator looks bad, but do we know for sure that Simon locked that thread?

I foresee a similar fate for this thread, it being locked due to on the one hand Tesla worshiping and on the other hand calling him a fraud spiraling down into war. 

[DejanC]

Huh?

On one hand, he died broke and penniless. On the other, there is a claim he is a fraud and did not invent ANYTHING he claimed. So how did a broke and penniless fraud able to silence all the real inventors?

[Terry Bites]

Not so much lies but just poorly informed and biased comments. Nationalism plays a large part I suspect. With plenty of sales wank and snake oil poured in too.
Bragging is the national sport in some countries. No names.....

So many things do get invented at the same time by separate individuals, its called convergence. Who gets the credit is the first to market or the first to publish. The latter usually requires some good mates on the peer review panel. Yes, there's proper corruption in science publishing!

In the case of the Tesla-Edison spat see lovely Kathy's video:

 https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D6331JXvOUGY&ved=2ahUKEwjzx5LCs_KHAxUaU0EAHV9iMV0QtwJ6BAgTEAI&usg=AOvVaw0WUVC_yXHYeB5URQUNZYRw

It seems that both Edison and Tesla were equally unpleasant and narcissistic individuals. Not fun loving chaps like old Steinmetz.

Still; slag off dead people off before they make it ilegal and leave the living in peace.

 www.eevblog.com/2024/08/09/eevblab-120-dcs-sues-youtuber-for-defamation-threatens-entire-review-industry/

[SteveThackery]

Please look up his 200+ patents

Patents don't have to work. Especially not ones posted 130 years ago.

Tesla was a strange mixture of brilliant and a fantasist. He was obsessed with "resonance", but he clearly had no conception of damping. He insisted a small vibratory device could bring down an entire building just by vibrating it at its resonant frequency. Of course he only boasted about it, never demonstrated it. It can't work because buildings don't have one resonant frequency, and also because the damping effect of the materials would dissipate the energy almost immediately. Plus, of course, no demolition company has ever used resonant vibrations to bring down a building. If it worked, they would. His vision of sending energy all around and through the earth also took no account of the massive losses such a system must incur.

Very odd. We honour him most by acknowledging the inventions he proved to work; it dishonours him to fabricate an entire fantasy world of heroes and villains, where magic rules over physics and the forces of evil oppress our hero and us little people. It's so naff it's embarrassing.

[tooki]

Meh.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ányos_Jedlik Invented the electric motor, dynamo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottó_Bláthy Invented the transformer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miksa_Déri Invented the closed loop controlled electric AC generator.
They also put all these into manufacturing.

Tesla and Edison played with electricity.

I don’t think that’s a reasonable representation of the history.

The Karlsruhe Institute of Technology doesn’t hold back in their opinion of Jedlik:

1827-1828: Istvan (Ányos) Jedlik (Hungarian) invents the first rotary machine with electromagnets and a commutator.
However, Jedlik publicly reported his invention only decades later and the actual invention date is uncertain.

Still many Hungarians believe Jedlik has invented the electric motors. A functional model of his apparatus is displayed at the art museum in Budapest.

Although this could actually be the first electric motor it has to be realized that this device had no influence on further development of electric machines. Jedlik's invention remained hidden for a long time and was not pursued by the inventor. The field of electrical engineering owes Jedlik nothing.

Blathy and his colleagues Zipernowsky and Déri certainly massively improved the transformer, but to say they invented the concept of the transformer is untrue. I do think it’s fair to say that they built the earliest practical AC transformer.

And Edison and Tesla certainly did more than “play” with electricity. I feel their individual contributions tend to get overstated, but it’s equally disingenuous to downplay their contributions.

[DejanC]

Patents don't have to work. Especially not ones posted 130 years ago.

Tesla was a strange mixture of brilliant and a fantasist. He was obsessed with "resonance", but he clearly had no conception of damping. He insisted a small vibratory device could bring down an entire building just by vibrating it at its resonant frequency. Of course he only boasted about it, never demonstrated it. It can't work because buildings don't have one resonant frequency, and also because the damping effect of the materials would dissipate the energy almost immediately. Plus, of course, no demolition company has ever used resonant vibrations to bring down a building. If it worked, they would. His vision of sending energy all around and through the earth also took no account of the massive losses such a system must incur.

Very odd. We honour him most by acknowledging the inventions he proved to work; it dishonours him to fabricate an entire fantasy world of heroes and villains, where magic rules over physics and the forces of evil oppress our hero and us little people. It's so naff it's embarrassing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Bridge,_London#:~:text=The%20bridge%20opened%20on%2010,on%2012%20June%20for%20modifications.

"Unexpected lateral vibration due to resonant structural response caused the bridge to be closed on 12 June for modifications."

And Edison and Tesla certainly did more than “play” with electricity. I feel their individual contributions tend to get overstated, but it’s equally disingenuous to downplay their contributions.

Thank you! I would expect more integrity from a moderator...

[SteveThackery]

Talking of fantasy, he once claimed to have exceptional visualisation skills, to the extent that he could construct a machine entirely in his head, run it, and then dismantle it and inspect it for wear! 

He obviously felt the need to exaggerate and lie, and claim blatant fantasies as fact. Such a shame, because he did have some remarkable skills - skills which needed no exaggeration.

[tooki]

Not so much lies but just poorly informed and biased comments. Nationalism plays a large part I suspect. With plenty of sales wank and snake oil poured in too.
Bragging is the national sport in some countries. No names.....

So many things do get invented at the same time by separate individuals, its called convergence. Who gets the credit is the first to market or the first to publish. The latter usually requires some good mates on the peer review panel. Yes, there's proper corruption in science publishing!

Oh yes. You really notice this if you move from one country to another. Suddenly, a completely different group of people from what you “knew” invented everything. In reality, the true history is usually way more nuanced. Exactly the convergence you speak of.

[iMo]

AFAIK all the stuff you are talking about (and even much much more) have been invented by the well-known inventor Mr. Jara Cimrman, born around 1855 in Austrian Empire, I forgot the town..

[tooki]

And Edison and Tesla certainly did more than “play” with electricity. I feel their individual contributions tend to get overstated, but it’s equally disingenuous to downplay their contributions.

Thank you! I would expect more integrity from a moderator...

I was responding to a statement by tszaboo, who is not a moderator, and is not Simon. Don’t put words in people’s mouths.

[tooki]

Huh?

On one hand, he died broke and penniless. On the other, there is a claim he is a fraud and did not invent ANYTHING he claimed. So how did a broke and penniless fraud able to silence all the real inventors?

Who was “silenced”? This is conspiracy theory drivel IMHO.

[tooki]

Very odd. We honour him most by acknowledging the inventions he proved to work; it dishonours him to fabricate an entire fantasy world of heroes and villains, where magic rules over physics and the forces of evil oppress our hero and us little people.

I love this statement so much I had to Quoted for Truth™ it!

[IanB]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Bridge,_London#:~:text=The%20bridge%20opened%20on%2010,on%2012%20June%20for%20modifications.

"Unexpected lateral vibration due to resonant structural response caused the bridge to be closed on 12 June for modifications."

You referenced the wrong thing. Try this instead: