Guess the Batteriser IC?

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi,

On the Batteriser IGG campaign you can find this photograph:




I think the breadboard on the left is some kind of test load.

If I zoom in on the board I see:



The circuit will be something like this:



There are two caps, two resistors, one unlabelled part (the inductor?) and the IC.

The board would be 14mm in diameter, to match a AA cell. The chip is 2mm x 2mm 6pin DFN with a power pad.
The LTC2536 parts would fit this footprint

http://www.linear.com/product/LTC3526L-2

But these parts can not deliver any thing like enough current:



Does anybody know of a part that would work ?

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[amyk]

They claimed they were making custom silicon, but that makes me wonder if companies like Linear and TI with all their experience can't make a high-current, ultra-low input voltage boost converter, what can the Batteriser guys do...?

[miguelvp]

They claimed they were making custom silicon, but that makes me wonder if companies like Linear and TI with all their experience can't make a high-current, ultra-low input voltage boost converter, what can the Batteriser guys do...?

Bob claims that he reduced the iphone charger by 50% so he might know a thing or two about it. So far no one has contended that he can't miniaturize the circuitry but we'll have to wait to see what it's capable of in miniaturization. The problem is the 8x yield claimed.

But one thing they didn't address is that most devices use cells in series, so as soon as one is depleted the device is likely to stop working, and no one is going to test which cells still have juice left so the ecofriendly thing goes out the window because that's probably the cause why so many batteries are disposed with a lot of charge left, just because everyone would replace them all instead of trying to figure out which one is dead.
 

[rollatorwieltje]

Didn't they say the device could deliver something like 1A? The LTC3526 you linked struggles to deliver 100mA from about 1V input.

[Mr.B]

Didn't they say the device could deliver something like 1A? The LTC3526 you linked struggles to deliver 100mA from about 1V input.

IIRC they said the device could deliver whatever the battery could deliver...
Just pie in the sky if you ask me.

[EEVblog]

IIRC they said the device could deliver whatever the battery could deliver...
Just pie in the sky if you ask me.

Of course it is. Short out a AA battery and see what it's capable of providing. It's many amps.

[Mr.B]

Of course it is. Short out a AA battery and see what it's capable of providing. It's many amps.

Yes Dave...
There is a video somewhere on this forum demonstrating more than 7 amps short circuit current on a typical AA.

EDIT: IIRC...

[Siwastaja]

Also, many surprisingly stupid devices like clapping monkeys may really NEED all those amps to start up. This is a real problem for "joule thieves".

I wouldn't be surprised if their monkey didn't work with their own device.

Many of you seem to somehow expect that they play at least some sort of fair game. But they are scammers, so they can be scammers till the end. The product may just be casing, not providing any current or voltage whatsoever. Or they may very well use a converter capable of 100 mA, and claim much more. That's what they do anyway.

As they are confirmed to lie on almost every aspect that you can confirm, why wouldn't you expect them to lie on everything else, too? Scammers scam! Is this news to someone?

Does someone really believe in custom IC claims? Like really? With all those set-up-for-filming hobby level lab pictures and all false science, they could produce an IC? And why would the need to? They can just claim they do.

[rollatorwieltje]

Bob claims that he reduced the iphone charger by 50% so he might know a thing or two about it.

Not even sure what that means. He says "original" charger. Is that the mains to 5V brick? Or the PMIC IC? The PMICs in the first iPhones were made by Linear (LTC4066 or LTC4088), the current ones are made by Dialog.
Maybe he did manage to make the power brick smaller, but I highly doubt there's some custom IC in there. Seems more a mechanical problem rather than a "this IC doesn't exist" problem.

[EEVblog]

Also, many surprisingly stupid devices like clapping monkeys may really NEED all those amps to start up. This is a real problem for "joule thieves".

I wish people would stop using the term Joule Thief", it's not the correct term. A Joule Thief is a circuit designed to exact energy from almost dead cells, at very low currents.
The Batteriser is a basic boost converter, not a Joule Thief.

Does someone really believe in custom IC claims? Like really?

I have no reason to doubt it. Dr Bob has experience in this field
http://www20.csueastbay.edu/directory/profiles/mcs/roohparvarfarzan.html

[coppice]

Does someone really believe in custom IC claims? Like really?

I have no reason to doubt it. Dr Bob has experience in this field
http://www20.csueastbay.edu/directory/profiles/mcs/roohparvarfarzan.html

The expertise shown on that page seems to be all digital systems design. It doesn't look very relevant to power electronics.

[amyk]

Of course it is. Short out a AA battery and see what it's capable of providing. It's many amps.

Yes Dave...
There is a video somewhere on this forum demonstrating more than 7 amps short circuit current on a typical AA.

EDIT: IIRC...

Not on this forum but quick Googling indicates others have measured >10A from a standard AA alkaline. A document that Batteriser themselves have linked to shows room-temperature internal resistance around 0R15, which is 10A with 1.5V across it. As the battery heats up internally, it goes down and current may go up even more...

NiCd and NiMH AAs can supply several tens of amps short circuited. I wonder how the Batteriser will handle a short.

[BradC]

NiCd and NiMH AAs can supply several tens of amps short circuited. I wonder how the Batteriser will handle a short.

Like a very expensive fuse.

[firewalker]

Or a psu on CC mode (if designed to last).

Alexander.

[firewalker]

Dimensions could be extrapolated from this image.



Alexander.

[mikerj]

I wonder how they connect the stainless steel sleeve to the PCB?  Stainless is a pain in the arse to solder, you need aggressive acid fluxes etc.

[rvalente]

Maybe its crimped in the board...?
Maybe its cooper coated easy soldering?

Maybe its just a fake at all, is this batteriser thing got in anyone hands?

[SaabFAN]

They promise to deliver by November 2015. So until december they enjoy the benefit of the doubt. If after that there is no device to be tested by independent labs, they're scammers, enjoying the money they got^^

[richfiles]

There is a video somewhere on this forum demonstrating more than 7 amps short circuit current on a typical AA.

That 6-8 inch tall mushroom cloud I saw on my bed that one time I tossed a fresh battery holder with 4 AAs in it aside, and it shorted out on landing... Yeaaah... 
One or more of the batteries overheated and popped the seal... It was at the tail end of an all nighter, and the cat was bugging me. I turned to yell at the cat, and at that EXACT moment, I witness the battery go poof, see the mushroom cloud... and decide it's time for me to go to bed! 

Kitty was just warning me that something smelled funny... Good kitty. 

[oldway]

Didn't they say the device could deliver something like 1A? The LTC3526 you linked struggles to deliver 100mA from about 1V input.

IIRC they said the device could deliver whatever the battery could deliver...
Just pie in the sky if you ask me.

This is possible if there is also a diode between the battery and the output. 

[mikerj]

Didn't they say the device could deliver something like 1A? The LTC3526 you linked struggles to deliver 100mA from about 1V input.

IIRC they said the device could deliver whatever the battery could deliver...
Just pie in the sky if you ask me.

This is possible if there is also a diode between the battery and the output. 

A lossless diode with zero forward voltage, combined with a zero resistance inductor for the boost converter.

[rvalente]

Well, devices like batteriser will certainly fit very well perfect components, since this product is dreamland.

[DanielS]

A lossless diode with zero forward voltage, combined with a zero resistance inductor for the boost converter.

A synchronous rectifier might not be quite lossless but for 5A/2V, you can probably find a suitable device with 1mOhm RDSon. Since this thing would also need to operate at more than 2MHz switching frequency to use components this small, a 2-3µH inductor with less than 10mOhm resistance is not far-fetched either. That would give it an hypothetical efficiency of about 95% before accounting for switching losses.

[jaxbird]

This custom chip they have designed could become very interesting for fpgas and asics, it's very small form factor for 10A+ current capability and extremely high efficiency.

[timofonic]

There is a video somewhere on this forum demonstrating more than 7 amps short circuit current on a typical AA.

That 6-8 inch tall mushroom cloud I saw on my bed that one time I tossed a fresh battery holder with 4 AAs in it aside, and it shorted out on landing... Yeaaah... 
One or more of the batteries overheated and popped the seal... It was at the tail end of an all nighter, and the cat was bugging me. I turned to yell at the cat, and at that EXACT moment, I witness the battery go poof, see the mushroom cloud... and decide it's time for me to go to bed! 

Kitty was just warning me that something smelled funny... Good kitty. 

Never underestimate cats, they are smart and twisted animals. But they have a very complex character, they are difficult to understand.

- My Siamese female cat:
* She bitted both mother and me and complained with noises because we were complaining in a rude way. She wanted to end the conflict!
* She always waked me up to go to school, helping my mother at it.
* She's 16yo and looks young and pretty, never had an illness until recently in one of her eyes. But she's getting better. I envy her, she must have a good damn genetic (one thing I like of felines is that they have a very short elderly).


My weird adult but kitty looking female cat is damn smart and agile.

- She's able to enter at any room.
- She prefer humans than their own, but she didn't like a friend of my mother that was in home for over six months and attacked her all time since first day!
* She was right, that woman is fucking insane and annoying, even eating tons of food and never helped at home (she was a Facebook junkie).
- She's able to make most humans friendly to her, even those don't like cats.