Fighting Chinese sellers of counterfeit parts on eBay

[SharpEars]

eBay dispute for the following item, initiated:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-ORIGINAL-BOURNS-3590S-2-102L-1K-OHM-Potentiometer-Brand-New-

Message sent to user jk_parts on eBay as part of the dispute is as follows:

Hi JK,

Thank you for sending me fakes and committing trademark infringement which is illegal in the USA. You said you were selling original BOURNS parts as part of your listing. Instead, you sold Chinese fakes made in Shenzhen which differ in obvious ways from authentic Bourns parts. The items claim to have been made in Mexico, but I know they were both manufactured and sold in Shenzhen.

Now, I would like a refund since you broke eBay rules and sold illegal items in the United States.

Note: This is a partial post. More details will be added to help with counterfeit identification and as the dispute progresses through eBay.

Step 1: Gathering the evidence:

Claimed item location (i.e., he thought he could hide the truth by listing a province instead of a city):



Top view of packaging of fakes including false country of manufacture (i.e., Made In Mexico my ass! Notice improper capitalization of the preposition "in."):



Bottom view of fake:



Top view of fake:



Front view:



Pins, orthographic view:



Detailed view of fake lettering and stabilizer leg shape (top blue protrusions) for use in incrimination:



Step 2: Presenting the evidence:

Actual shipment location (Shenzhen, as expected!):



Identifiers of an authentic part¹ that differentiate it from the fake presented:



Orthographic view including back of authentic part and its pins²:



Orthographic view of top of authentic part²:



Bottom of authentic part²:


1. Credit to http://www.onlinecomponents.com for images of the authentic part.
2. Credit to Mouser

Step 3: The response

Could you help returning the potentiometer back to below address?

Jerry Chen

Seller address info omitted due to privacy concerns...

Please send it using USPS first class mail and we will pay shipping cost as well.

Full refund will be issued after receiving the returns.

By the way, could you share us how to identify what the ORIGINAL...

Our supplier told me it's original Bourns..

Apologized for the inconvenience caused.

Thank you.


Step 4: Hardball

It is clear that the scammer's expectation is for the return to arrive after the 30 day time limit where I can request eBay to step in on my behalf (as a buyer who has been sold counterfeit goods). So he's trying to get his parts back, keep his money and have me pay for the return shipping. I will admit, I did not expect this - normally the seller refunds when confronted and that's where the story ends. I guess we'll have to play hardball:

Dear jk_parts,

I should also mention that before returning the parts to you, I will have to start a dispute action through eBay marking the goods that you sold me as counterfeit goods. I will of course supply them with all of the evidence necessary to prove this.

In addition I will put the parts through a conformance test that will subject them to the maximum electrical (both voltage and power) and mechanical (maximal torque and number of turns) stress indicated by the manufacturer in order to show non-compliance. This is almost guaranteed to result in the destruction of all of the parts, since they are after all counterfeit and will never meet the manufacturer's guidelines. You see, I work as an industrial product tester and have access to machinery used to test product compliance.

At that point the remains of the broken burned-out parts will of course be shipped to you, at your expense and with you pre-paying for packaging, shipping and insurance including tracking.

In addition to all of this, I will also contact both Bourns company as well as the Federal Trade Commission and provide them with all of the necessary evidence including your contact information for pursuit of Trademark Infringement charges and complete the eBay process for the reporting of counterfeit goods which will probably result in sanctions against you as a seller.

Please let me know if you would like for me to initiate the above.


Step 5: Conclusion

New message from: jk_parts

We were cheated by our supplier and will talk with him tomorrow immediately.

Anyway, we will issue full refund without returning.

We apologized for the inconvenience caused...

Regards,

He followed up with a refund shortly thereafter and canceled the eBay transaction to cover his ass. Note that I did not supply him with any information used to identify the parts as fakes.

[mikerj]

They are obviously fakes, so presumably you bought them just to have an argument with the seller?  You have far too much time on your hands.

[SharpEars]

They are obviously fakes, so presumably you bought them just to have an argument with the seller?  You have far too much time on your hands.

No, I am just fed up with the practice, the blind eye that eBay takes and most importantly I want to educate future perspective buyers so as not to get burned and in the event that they do, what recourse they have.

[MagicSmoker]

They are obviously fakes, so presumably you bought them just to have an argument with the seller?  You have far too much time on your hands.

The OP is doing his part to fight fraud on ebay and your response is to belittle his efforts? 

[M4trix]

They are obviously fakes, so presumably you bought them just to have an argument with the seller?  You have far too much time on your hands.

The OP is doing his part to fight fraud on ebay and your response is to belittle his efforts? 

+1

Counterfeiters and those who sell fake parts must be exposed to public! The only way to fight counterfeiting is more educating people regarding this matter and show examples of counterfeit parts as much as possible.   

[tautech]

They are obviously fakes, so presumably you bought them just to have an argument with the seller?  You have far too much time on your hands.

How could you know that they were fakes from the listing?

[SharpEars]

They are obviously fakes, so presumably you bought them just to have an argument with the seller?  You have far too much time on your hands.

How could you know that they were fakes from the listing?

The price per item never lies! If it's too cheap to be true (and it's being shipped from China/Hong Kong)...

[tggzzz]

The price per item never lies! If it's too cheap to be true (and it's being shipped from China/Hong Kong)...

So if it was only 90% of the "standard" price, you would presume it was genuine?

There are false positives and false negatives.

[tautech]

They are obviously fakes, so presumably you bought them just to have an argument with the seller?  You have far too much time on your hands.

How could you know that they were fakes from the listing?

The price per item never lies! If it's too cheap to be true (and it's being shipped from China/Hong Kong)...

Of course SharpEars, mikerj just made that statement that was quite unnecessary. 

[SharpEars]

The price per item never lies! If it's too cheap to be true (and it's being shipped from China/Hong Kong)...

So if it was only 90% of the "standard" price, you would presume it was genuine?

There are false positives and false negatives.

I knew the moment I saw the pics that it was fake (i.e., price had nothing to do with it, other than effecting my sort order for matching eBay items). Then it was time to punish the scammer for claiming that his fakes were original BOURNS parts. When they get brazen and actually claim authenticity, I will have none of it...

[rx8pilot]

When shopping on eBay, I filter out Chinese sellers. I don't care what is being offered, it is not worth the risk of time and/or money. The reason eBay will always turn a blind eye is because they make money. Unless a significant legal hand came out and slapped eBay, they will not turn down the shady businesses.

The way I fight it is never buying anything from China directly, even the responsible companies. At least the Chinese originated parts I do by are vetted and tested through a monitored channel which drastically reduces the chance of problems. I cannot imagine the copy culture changing any time soon.

[SharpEars]

When shopping on eBay, I filter out Chinese sellers. I don't care what is being offered, it is not worth the risk of time and/or money. The reason eBay will always turn a blind eye is because they make money. Unless a significant legal hand came out and slapped eBay, they will not turn down the shady businesses.

The way I fight it is never buying anything from China directly, even the responsible companies. At least the Chinese originated parts I do by are vetted and tested through a monitored channel which drastically reduces the chance of problems. I cannot imagine the copy culture changing any time soon.

This technique is ineffective. The Chinese sources often have relatives and/or friends residing in either Canada or the US that resell this same crap from a Canadian/American address. Also, see the post below this one for other tricks.

The only way to stop this is either the US government putting its foot down (never going to happen) or education (I and others try...).

[Stray Electron]

When shopping on eBay, I filter out Chinese sellers. I don't care what is being offered, it is not worth the risk of time and/or money. The reason eBay will always turn a blind eye is because they make money. Unless a significant legal hand came out and slapped eBay, they will not turn down the shady businesses.

The way I fight it is never buying anything from China directly, even the responsible companies. At least the Chinese originated parts I do by are vetted and tested through a monitored channel which drastically reduces the chance of problems. I cannot imagine the copy culture changing any time soon.

   I too filter out the Chinese sellers (for most things)  but I've found that they often claim to be in the US. Then when you buy from them, the items are shipped from China!  Ebay REALLY needs to not only clear out the sellers of counterfeit parts but also the ones that lie about their "Ships From" location.

   I have bought some good items from China but I've learned not to trust appearances and not to take anything for granted!  Copper plated aluminium wire anyone?

[coppice]

How is accurately stating that something is in Guang Dong trying to hide anything?

[SharpEars]

How is accurately stating that something is in Guang Dong trying to hide anything?

Because Shenzhen is a red flag, much more so than (the much larger province of) Guangdong (to most people in the know with regard to the origin of fake electronic goods in China).

[coppice]

How is accurately stating that something is in Guang Dong trying to hide anything?

Because Shenzhen is a red flag, much more so than (the much larger province of) Guangdong (to most people in the know with regard to the origin of fake electronic goods in China).

Hardly anything is made in Shenzhen, and it is pretty unlikely the devices are actually stocked there.

[jwm_]

Have you forwarded this info to bournes by chance? I'd be really curious if they had anything to say on the issue.

[rx8pilot]

This technique is ineffective. The Chinese sources often have relatives and/or friends residing in either Canada or the US that resell this same crap from a Canadian/American address. Also, see the post below this one for other tricks.

The only way to stop this is either the US government putting its foot down (never going to happen) or education (I and others try...).

It is definitely not foolproof by any means.

Starting with common sense....
I look at the 'too good to be true' price.
The pictures.
The language
The other things being sold by the same seller
If the item, photos, and language appear nearly verbatim in Chinese sellers listings
...even then, there is obviously never a guarantee.

I recently ordered some pogo-pins from a Chinese seller. They arrived quick and were (as expected) super low cost. A close inspection reveals why the cost is so low. THEY WERE HORRIBLE QUALITY. My hypothesis was proven.

For new things, parts and equipment, I simply stick with proper dealers. I use eBay for a lot of used gear, most of which is fairly local to southern California. So far, no problems with fakes.

[SharpEars]

Have you forwarded this info to bournes by chance? I'd be really curious if they had anything to say on the issue.

They are well aware and have been for over a decade:

http://www.bourns.com/news/press-releases/pr/2005/07/01/safety-issues-with-counterfeit-bourns-trimmers!
http://www.deruitai.com/news_con.aspx?nautoid=51

[Tomorokoshi]

They are obviously fakes, so presumably you bought them just to have an argument with the seller?  You have far too much time on your hands.

No, I am just fed up with the practice, the blind eye that eBay takes and most importantly I want to educate future perspective buyers so as not to get burned and in the event that they do, what recourse they have.

Nice work! It's too easy to find these things on eBay. Counterfeit products of all kinds gush out of China totally unchecked by either government or by eBay, as all get their little cut of the action.

[calzap]

If you need genuine name-brand components, don't buy from Chinese  sellers on eBay or other on-line selling venues.  I did a post a while back about a Chinese seller who was selling fake Amazon-branded USB chargers via Amazon!  It's hopeless unless there is more inspection and rejection at the border and more enforcement by the selling venues.

One problem with border inspection and rejection in the U.S.  is that large companies can use it as an anti-competitive tool.  An example is Fluke's trade-marking the colors yellow and gray on DMMs to keep out competitive  imports.  If it doesn't have  "Fluke" on it, will someone assume it's a Fluke because of its colors?  Apparently, Fluke thinks so.  SparkFun experienced this the hard way:
  https://www.sparkfun.com/news/1428 .

On the other hand, SparkFun has been burned by Chinese-sourced Atmega328s that contained copper slugs instead of silicon: https://www.sparkfun.com/news/350 .

Mike in California

[sleemanj]

On the other hand, SparkFun has been burned by Chinese-sourced Atmega328s that contained copper slugs instead of silicon: https://www.sparkfun.com/news/350 .

Not that it makes a difference, but they turned out to be not just slugs, but a remarked On Semi part.

https://www.sparkfun.com/news/395

[rdl]

Don't want counterfeits, fake parts, or cheap junk that doesn't work right? Don't buy from eBay.

There are probably several thousand sellers of fake crap on eBay. Maybe you can shut down one a week. Of course, 2 more will appear while you're doing that.

Let us know when you've put them all out of business and it's safe to shop there again.

[rx8pilot]

Don't want counterfeits, fake parts, or cheap junk that doesn't work right? Don't buy from eBay.

There are probably several thousand sellers of fake crap on eBay. Maybe you can shut down one a week. Of course, 2 more will appear while you're doing that.

Let us know when you've put them all out of business and it's safe to shop there again.

Unfortunately, this is true. As long as people desperately seek out cheap stuff - there will be counterfeits. There are consequences for demanding low prices and being willing to buy the fake things. If I can't afford it I don't buy it. That is a simple and easy way to get what I actually want instead of a frustrating imitation. If no one was willing to buy fake crap, the market would not be absolutely MASSIVE. The world cannot get enough fake stuff because they are 'saving' money. For some reason, the crap quality of the stuff they get does not frustrate them enough to avoid it in the future. I LOVE saving money, but buying counterfeit is almost always more expensive in the long run. It does not work at all. It breaks shortly after. It sorta works and you spend 2 days trying to figure out why. It may create a danger. All to save a few dollars?

Since humanity will not likely make any near term shifts in behavior, the only possible way counterfeit stuff will be reduced by a meaningful amount is if the large countries around the world make it a priority. I can't see that happening, but maybe its possible. Buy from DigiKey, Mouser, Arrow, Element14, etc and you are most likely going to get what you expect. They time you spend dealing with fake stuff is more valuable than what you just 'saved' buying something that does not work. The lowest cost option is doing it right the first time.

As a business owner, I would be slaughtered if I purchased bogus parts. As a hobbyist, I would be pulling my hair out. 

[SharpEars]

Don't want counterfeits, fake parts, or cheap junk that doesn't work right? Don't buy from eBay.

There are probably several thousand sellers of fake crap on eBay. Maybe you can shut down one a week. Of course, 2 more will appear while you're doing that.

Let us know when you've put them all out of business and it's safe to shop there again.

My goal is less about punishing the seller and more about education of the (often ignorant) consumer, hence all of the photos in the original post among other information. Chances are that the seller will just reply to my message with a refund unless he is a bigger idiot than I give him credit for.