EME: Earth Moon Earth Communications

[eneuro]

I used a 3m diameter satelite dish , which comes with reasonable ability for azimuth movement, and a bit of bodging made for elevation control.

This dish was designed exactly for EME or reused from something else?
It looks like it has ~1m focus, so f/D~0.3. What could be focus length in this instalation?
I had 1m in designed CSP, while wanted to optimize for balance and keep center of mass close to the middle of the dish in solar CSP.

Anyway, without reflectors in focus (like in radiotelescopes), no chance to reuse this CSP dish for RF, while for radio in many dish instalations I see those quite huge (probably at least 1 feet long) cylinder hardware boxes, so they probably won't be able easy exchange CSP with this EME equipment, so for the moment could only try to experiment with cheapy 433.92MHz RF modules (close frequency to 70cm EME) like those below I've in hands now, to see if 3m CSP dish will work as more directional antenas with those dongles and maybe could help extend its range 

http://www.icstation.com/433mhz-transmitter-receiver-arduino-project-p-1402.html


So, probably will chose f/D for my 3m parabolic mirror in the range 1/3  (1m focus) since it fits my CSP solar power system requirements and later will try RF with this instalation by removeing temprary CSP concentrator 
There is sun tracker software, so writing a few lines of code to support moon tracking shoudn't be a problem since this CSP can see the sun covered by clouds to better respond to rapid radiation changed by local small clouds coverage 

[Electro Fan]

Regarding the exams, the technical side really is pretty simple for your average EE, just do a bit of brushing up using example papers and you should be sweet. Not so easy are the regulations, and you need to know them, and unlike the technical side they're pretty much a memorising thing regrettably. Personally, with those sorts of things I find it easiest to read a text on the subject and then do a couple of dozen example test questions, referring back to the text when I'm unsure. Reiterate the test until you're achieving 100% (or whatever your target is). While it may seem like a chore, most hams are fiercely defensive of their bands and take pride that they have gone through a couple of hoops to gain the right to use them.

There are a few non-hams who don't seem to think it's necessary to go through those hoops, and enjoy their lives indulging in spectrum abuse. As a ham myself, I find it a little irksome as the exams are not exactly hard, I did them when I was 16, passed the technical side with distinction, and got a credit on the regulations. This was on the full exam, not the introductory levels we have now, so if a 16 yo can do that, it can't be that difficult!

There are a few things that you may find irrelevant, in particular HF propagation. I think if I had to take the exams again I'd not do well in that section as I've only transmitted on HF about half a dozen times! Almost everything I do is at VHF and above.

Howard and everyone, thanks for the encouragement on the license test.  I'm pretty sure I can get through the theory and test.  I'm not so sure if I can get from the test through the actual design process (even though there are a fair number of "templates" around) and especially through the build process.  I have a lot respect for the knowledge and skill and experience members here and others have accumulated.  I'm certain it's easier to watch the NBA than play in the NBA

I'm going to remove the license test from the list of key concerns in the feasibility assessment.  Next is the antenna design and size.  It has to be neighborhood politically correct.  Once I get that figured out and the associated RF design and the overall costs I can see if this is viable in my situation - but I hope others here might give it a go regardless of what I wind up doing.  If I had a place to install a 3 meter dish I have a hunch it might be a better way to go... but it's just a guess, I'm still researching.  Thanks very much to all the contributors on this thread.

[Electro Fan]

A couple random points:

I agree that 2M is the way to go. The 2M band is very straightforward for new hams, and the antenna sizes are reasonable. Also, you can use your radio to talk on local repeaters and such, which is important for building all of your other ham skills and knowledge.

To study for the exam, I highly recommend buying The ARRL Ham Radio License Manual. It's currently listed at $27 on Amazon. Yes you can study for and get the license without buying any book. Heck, they post the entire question bank with answers online to study from. However, to me the tech exam is not just about getting your license, but also learning. The ARRL license manual does a great job of teaching many important concepts.

2 Meter is currently my leading candidate.  How small can the antenna be and still have a solid chance of working for EME in your assessment?

I'll give the AARL manual a go.  Between the manual, the video(s), and all the articles on the Web it won't be for a lack of information if I can't pass the test   

[Electro Fan]

Ok, if you wish to do EME, you should start by subscribing to this list and listening about two weeks before you post. You need to do that to understand the culture of the list.

The LIST is HIGHLY MODERATED, moderated to a level that most EEV users would never stand for. And it is moderated that way for good reason due to the high  level of technical discussion that occurs.  Beginners are welcome, but it is NOT a general ham radio chat, its VHF and above, and a few seti and satellite monitoring guys also  post. Non-hams just looking for entertainment  would generally be asked to be "monitor only". All posts are highly moderated, and off topic stuff just vanishes. Wasting the moderators time is well, probably highly to very  fatal to your list access.

 To give you an idea of the level of sophistication, when these guys have a conference, Rhode and Schwartz or Agilent usually send two sales guys and a few 100,000$ instruments on loan for noise figure measurement.

You can see anything from the best waterproofing for an outdoor connector to subtle errors being found in Y-Factor noise measurement papers.  Some of these folks build systems at 78 to 120 Ghz and go mountain-topping with them. Others consider wire bonders in the basement a minimum level of tooling. Others just go out with two modified radar detectors and have some short range fun. :-)

http://lists.eclectechs.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/microwave

The archives are golden.

The list would help you find a EME capable ham near you...

Steve

Roger all that.  Tech talk only, primarily in receive-only mode.  Thanks!

[Alphatronique]

Hi

just my 2 cent  if you live in urban zone  ,not put to much money on system before evaluate  first your background noise

start by put  yagi antenna pointed vertically to the sky  ,mesure noise then swap antenna by a dummy load
if more that 10db difference forgot about it to mutch noise for be usable  as location

this was also a really good toll for virtually build a station  http://www.vk3um.com/eme%20calculator.html ,that assume low noise location

on my side i have 2 x 15 feet long Beam in VHF whit elevation azimuth tracking and legal limit power amp  ,whit 0.122db noise figure preamp
but urban noise  (plasma  TV , ethernet over power line etc etc , make my system not able to listen anything even the french grave radar 

so for make contact need to be in both direction if you cannot listen forgot it it wort noting ...

Best 73  VE2OLM

[eneuro]

so for make contact need to be in both direction if you cannot listen forgot it it wort noting ...

Is it posible to make those EME without such big ass parabolic dish antenas from the link to the EME calculator page ?
http://www.vk3um.com/Dish%20Photos.html

http://www.vk3um.com/Kennedy%20Spec.pdf

Wow, 8.5m dish 3.65 focus and f/D~0.43 
8 times bigger perpendicular area than small 3m parabolic 

[Alphatronique]

Hi

today digital mode like JT65 you may make it whit 2 x 15 feet long VHF yagi and 600W
whit 4 of those antenna and 1 Kw you hear your own echo ,assuming you use small bandwidth  reveicer ( my SDR one may go down to 1.3Hz bandwidth )

those dish was mostly for 1,2GHZ were power amp > 300W was hard to find so it use dish for increase gain
on VHF was easy to find SSPA up to legal limit so antenna gain may bit less ,but again that assume you have absolutely no in-band noise coming form urban electronic

as example i modelise my antenna  2 x 9 element 15 feet long ,very directive on VHF  ,but look lime perfect omnidirectional @ 102.1MHZ were have 25MW FM radio station
this strong signal mix into air whit other that make broadband noise ,so walever my antenna was directional in VHF it pick-up FM radio station even if point to cold sky 

but also for EME bigger is better for antenna so if your wife let you install a 30 foot dish  lest go  O0

but most common VHF antenna ther day was 4 x 12  to 4 x 20 element long (LFA) beam ,still have some giant array but not really need anymore for digital mode

have fun

[Theboel]

Hi

just my 2 cent  if you live in urban zone  ,not put to much money on system before evaluate  first your background noise

start by put  yagi antenna pointed vertically to the sky  ,mesure noise then swap antenna by a dummy load
if more that 10db difference forgot about it to mutch noise for be usable  as location

this was also a really good toll for virtually build a station  http://www.vk3um.com/eme%20calculator.html ,that assume low noise location

on my side i have 2 x 15 feet long Beam in VHF whit elevation azimuth tracking and legal limit power amp  ,whit 0.122db noise figure preamp
but urban noise  (plasma  TV , ethernet over power line etc etc , make my system not able to listen anything even the french grave radar 

so for make contact need to be in both direction if you cannot listen forgot it it wort noting ...

Best 73  VE2OLM

I can not agree more,
EME is serious bussines maybe the best thing before spend any dollar for anything try to located local HAM club and ask them about EME station in Your local area so You can learn directly from them.
For me take EME for first step into HAM world is HUGEEEEE step not Imposible but hardway

[Electro Fan]

Hi

just my 2 cent  if you live in urban zone  ,not put to much money on system before evaluate  first your background noise

start by put  yagi antenna pointed vertically to the sky  ,mesure noise then swap antenna by a dummy load
if more that 10db difference forgot about it to mutch noise for be usable  as location

this was also a really good toll for virtually build a station  http://www.vk3um.com/eme%20calculator.html ,that assume low noise location

on my side i have 2 x 15 feet long Beam in VHF whit elevation azimuth tracking and legal limit power amp  ,whit 0.122db noise figure preamp
but urban noise  (plasma  TV , ethernet over power line etc etc , make my system not able to listen anything even the french grave radar 

so for make contact need to be in both direction if you cannot listen forgot it it wort noting ...

Best 73  VE2OLM

Alphatronique,

This is very good advice - this probably should be among the very first operational steps in the process.  Might as well check the noise first.  Thanks!  EF

[Electro Fan]

This is my 2 cent opinion,

I belive 2m band (144Mhz) is good start point why :
1. the size of antena is "manageable"
2. the cost for accesories (LNA, down converter, Antenna switch, PA) is fair enough
3. The activity is among the EME enthusiats is good
I will not suggest to try EME with a wet string type station but many-many report with 12 element single yagis can made some 2 way contact and if You can not transmit cause You do not have licence maybe You can contact some "big gun station" like W5UN, DG9MAQ (germany), VK3GY(Australia) and many more to made schedule to try to listen to them.
if I start again from zero my EME station here list I like to have (remember this is a list for 2 way contact)
1. Decent HF transceiver like TS850, FT950, etc
2. Down converter (antenna mount style with LNA)
3. Low loss cable like heliax LDF5
4. 1Kw Solidstate PA
5. Antena switch relay with sequencer
6. 2 X 12 Element optimized yagis (K1FO etc or You can buy from cushcraft, M12 etc)
7. PC for sofware logging, Moon Position, cluster monitor)
seem many thing but honestly in my Country with almost 300 milion people there is no more than handfull people can hear their sound whats like after travel 600,000km away.

The K1FO looks good - let's make this the default candidate - anyone want to suggest an alternative?  Thx

[Electro Fan]

Potentially depressing info here   But as they say "it's never as good or as bad as it seems" - so we're still just collecting info...

However, if this is correct, while a single small Yagi can receive someone else's EME signal, it might take 4?! Yagi's (not to mention a KW amplifier) to "consistently be able to hear your own echo's under optimal conditions."

http://k7xc.tripod.com/id19.html

"From what I can gather so far a station running around 800 Watts into 4 Antennas should hear his own echoes some of the time, depending on conditions."

"A typical 2M EME station consists of 4 yagis at least 3 Wavelengths in length fed in phase with a KW transmitter output and preamp with less than 1 DB of Noise Figure and 20 DB gain. Setup as above you should consistantly be able to hear your own echo's under optimal conditions."

This isn't the end of the word or the project but it takes a bit of the bloom off the rose if the EME system requires QSO confirmation from someone else vs. being able to receive your own signal.  Maybe there is a middle ground design with less antenna with which you can still receive your own signal but maybe not as consistently?

[Electro Fan]

http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj/6mTable.htm
Antenna spreadsheet heaven (download Excel spreadsheet)

- current assessment:  with 1 small yagi you can transmit and hear signals but probably not your own, with 2 yagis it's TBD, with 4 yagi's you stand a reasonable chance of hearing your own signal.  Probably need a mult-yagi with cross-polarization to hear your own signal - this will increase size (installation space) requirements, mounting hardware requirements, and complexity.

http://www.newsvhf.com/2m-yagis.html

http://www.m2inc.com/index.php?ax=amateur&pg=83
This antenna has great gain and G/T specs - only challenge is that it has a 55' boom and 21' elements and needs a turn radius of 29' - it's becoming clear why not everyone is bouncing signals off the moon, or at least not bouncing them and hearing their own signal

It's starting to look like to be an EME'er you need not only technical prowess, but a pretty decent budget, AND some acres of land.
 

[Alphatronique]

HI

forgot those 21 element antenna  did you seriously think that you may manage azimuth elevation whit 55" boom antenna ;-)

that wly most people use 2 or 4 smaller antenna that was more manageable  ,even if my setup was 2 x 9 element that still 15 feet long  by 10 feet wide  to move
but then you must use more coax and connector  ,and on that kind of system add 10 feet of coax was dramatic  ,remember each db of loos ahead of first "gain" stage
directly add itself to noise figure  ,so if you use 4 antenna whit 4 x 10" feet of coax you may easy add extra 0.5db of noise figure

here as exemple i have pre-amp and power amp mounted on the foot a less that 10 feet of antenna  for minimize coax loss

that you need to manage noise pick-up and dynamic range of the first gain stage those nice preamp start to saturate whit -50dbm signal , then go out of linear zone
and start to ack like mixer ,just lime m 102,1FM radio station example  ,and if put filter in front on pre-amp  you again loos another 0.5 to 1db of noise figure
and above total 0.5db noise figure your out of the game   ,so it quickly start to be real engineering problem 

but as said  on my first post whatever antenna and system you have if your in center of urban zone ,your probably screw-up even before start whit in-band noise

have fun

[Howardlong]

The ambient noise thing is a very valid point, and it's getting worse and worse. I had a Linksys router once situated about 15' from my antenna. It added 10dB to my noise floor on 2m.

This was why I mentioned about slightly under illuminating dishes. Even then, you need to choose a feed that has minimal sidelobes.

Yagis tend to have lobes all over the place, so although the headline gain figure might look great, the side lobes and front to back ratio are all important when considering weak signal stuff. If you have a 15dBi gain Yagi with a nasty 10dB front to back ratio, it means it actually has gain of 5dBi out the back of it, right onto a nice warm noisy Earth.

[Alphatronique]

Hi 
not to forgot that a very clean Yagis at frequency of intereset may  have undesired lode to the interference frequency  or event look like omnidirectional 

as noise  here in my basement electronic balast fluorescent lamp  generate 10 db noise 50 feet away , i may turn my off ,but not one in neibourhood

[mark03]

It's starting to look like to be an EME'er you need not only technical prowess, but a pretty decent budget, AND some acres of land.

The good news is the first of those can make up for the second and third    Just ask Joe Taylor!  That was the whole point of his super-slow coded modes (WSJT, JT65), no?

This comparison may be enlightening (Eb/N0 of various amateur-radio modulation types):
http://wwwhome.ewi.utwente.nl/~ptdeboer/ham/tn/tn09b.html

I'm not sure what you mean by being able to "hear" an echo.  Do you insist on a signal that your brain can detect through your own ears?  Many would say the challenge of exchanging a handful of bits, with smaller antennas and lower power, is just as engaging, or more so, even though you can't "hear" anything in the traditional sense.

I will grant you, these digital modes involve long transmissions, so you can't send yourself a signal, and the experience may be slightly less visceral than hearing your own voice echoing back at you...

[Alphatronique]

Hi

digital not make magic ,cannot decode signal that not here , if you not "see" it into a spectrogram  it will not decode

when said that jt65 decode up to -21db  it compare it to same bandwidth of analog signal  so ~300HZ  wide
but if you use spectrogram (FFT) whit sub HZ resolution , you got same "gain"  since noise level was direct relation to it bandwidth

so in real live you will see signal on radio band-scope before software was able to decode it  ,assuming you have a decent radio

that good exemple here   

[Electro Fan]

It's starting to look like to be an EME'er you need not only technical prowess, but a pretty decent budget, AND some acres of land.

The good news is the first of those can make up for the second and third    Just ask Joe Taylor!  That was the whole point of his super-slow coded modes (WSJT, JT65), no?

This comparison may be enlightening (Eb/N0 of various amateur-radio modulation types):
http://wwwhome.ewi.utwente.nl/~ptdeboer/ham/tn/tn09b.html

I'm not sure what you mean by being able to "hear" an echo.  Do you insist on a signal that your brain can detect through your own ears?  Many would say the challenge of exchanging a handful of bits, with smaller antennas and lower power, is just as engaging, or more so, even though you can't "hear" anything in the traditional sense.

I will grant you, these digital modes involve long transmissions, so you can't send yourself a signal, and the experience may be slightly less visceral than hearing your own voice echoing back at you...

Just to clarify, I don't need to hear a voice come back - although that would be cool. 

It seemed in the link I posted earlier ( http://www.vk3um.com/1296_CW_Feb06.wav ) that it is possible to hear Morse Code or tones but regardless of the form of the signal (voice, Morse Code, other tones or text, bits, or something else rendered on a display) my first choice would be to receive my own signal as opposed to relying on someone somewhere in the world hopefully receiving it and hopefully reporting it (via "QSO").  I'm not against QSO - it's a great arrangement, but for this project my first choice would be a system that can send a signal and receive that same signal.

Unless I'm missing something, it is possible for an EME system to send and receive a signal (ie, the system can listen for it's own echo), as opposed to, for example, someone in Chicago transmitting a signal to the Moon and someone in Paris receiving the signal and then informing the person in Chicago via QSO that the signal was received in Paris.  I'd prefer Chicago-Moon-Chicago vs. Chicago-Moon-Paris-Chicago (or Chicago-Moon-Paris-Moon-Chicago).  My impression so far is that Chicago-Moon-Chicago will take a bigger antenna than Chicago-Moon-Paris QSO to Chicago, if any of that makes sense.   Thanks

[Alphatronique]

Hi    EME signsal loss was arond +/- 250db  so not really care of the distense of both station on earth  big part of the loss was moon  that it reflex only 7% of signal

but that will affect polarization ,and both eed to see moon in good condition ,that quickly become complex 
lunar cycle was 28 day and usually QSO was make a moon rise and set both end  ,reason was that wen moon was low on horizon
you got  extra ground gain  (up to 6db)  ,usually we use software for schedule date when it better for contact
since that quicly become complex ,full moon = sun noise over signal  ,then moon need to no be over a galaxy or else that emit thermal noise
moon need to be close to heart for gain extra 3db gain ,finally have mood set or rise both end of contact

sure that hear your own echo  ,remove from equation polarization shift (still have some liberation fading ) and permit to use ground gain as you need

so usually you have 4-5 very good day by cycle  ,but not sure it was good day for other end to  and was a convivial time shedule

in really not jsut need the equipment need lot of lerning and $$$$  and most of all time to sped listening noise  ;-)

[mark03]

Unless I'm missing something, it is possible for an EME system to send and receive a signal (ie, the system can listen for it's own echo), as opposed to, for example, someone in Chicago transmitting a signal to the Moon and someone in Paris receiving the signal and then informing the person in Chicago via QSO that the signal was received in Paris.  I'd prefer Chicago-Moon-Chicago vs. Chicago-Moon-Paris-Chicago (or Chicago-Moon-Paris-Moon-Chicago).  My impression so far is that Chicago-Moon-Chicago will take a bigger antenna than Chicago-Moon-Paris QSO to Chicago, if any of that makes sense.   Thanks

Yes, the speed-of-light constraint means that you will need more link margin for an echo to yourself, vs communication with another station.  The relative distances are irrelevant, of course.  But the maximum duration of the transmission is fixed at the round-trip-time (minus any Tx/Rx switching overhead).  This in turn sets an upper limit on Eb (energy per bit) for a given antenna pair, transmit power, and receiver noise floor.  Whereas if you were talking to someone else, you could transmit much longer and achieve a much higher Eb.

In practice it is worse than that, because the purpose-designed modes like JT65 require a long transmission (one minute I believe).  Thus, getting your own echo back not only places a theoretical limit on Eb but also soaks you with a big penalty for giving up the coding gain of the more sophisticated modulation types.

Of course, it would still be really cool to hear your own voice echoing off the moon

[Electro Fan]

Hi    EME signsal loss was arond +/- 250db  so not really care of the distense of both station on earth  big part of the loss was moon  that it reflex only 7% of signal

but that will affect polarization ,and both eed to see moon in good condition ,that quickly become complex 
lunar cycle was 28 day and usually QSO was make a moon rise and set both end  ,reason was that wen moon was low on horizon
you got  extra ground gain  (up to 6db)  ,usually we use software for schedule date when it better for contact
since that quicly become complex ,full moon = sun noise over signal  ,then moon need to no be over a galaxy or else that emit thermal noise
moon need to be close to heart for gain extra 3db gain ,finally have mood set or rise both end of contact

sure that hear your own echo  ,remove from equation polarization shift (still have some liberation fading ) and permit to use ground gain as you need

so usually you have 4-5 very good day by cycle  ,but not sure it was good day for other end to  and was a convivial time shedule

in really not jsut need the equipment need lot of lerning and $$$$  and most of all time to sped listening noise  ;-)

Ok, so in addition to needing 1) technical prowess, 2) a pretty decent budget, AND 3) some acres of land, we ALSO need 4) enough time to spend listening to noise ;-)

Seriously, I understand this project will require a LOT of learning and a fair amount of time, but the scope of the ambition (one regular human being along with tremendously helpful guidance from fellow EEVers sending a signal to the Moon and receiving it back intelligibly) is what has me spending the cycles to determine if it is feasible.  Plus it's fun.  In all seriousness, it would be a meaningful accomplishment.  I don't generally think in terms of "bucket lists" but if I did, the ability to figure out, deploy, and successfully operate an EME system would be worthy of going on the list.

In any event, I'm slightly hung up on wanting to "hear" (receive) the signal I transmit as opposed to relying on someone somewhere else receiving it and reporting it.  I might have to relax this objective - I'm still trying to figure out the impact on the antenna size which so far is the biggest constraint.  If the neighbors tell my family we have to move because they don't like my antenna my wife and kids will not be happy campers.

I understand (or I'm learning about) the Faraday rotation and the need/desire for both vertical and horizontal polarization via Polarity Diverse Switching.  It seems like this dictates at least two Yagis.  Alternatively, it seems like one Yagi with horizontal polarization could work (and could potentially benefit from the ground grain) - which might just mean waiting longer for good days and times and maybe spending more time listening to noise.  Based on what I've read so far it seems that one Yagi is a simpler design and avoids some of the potential cabling losses that occur with multiple antennas.

So, given my constraints, let's assume we used one Yagi (horizontally polarized to harness the ground effect).  Does this mean that if we are patient about what days and times the system is operated that it would be possible to transmit a short duration signal (maybe 2 seconds of Morse Code) and receive it on the same system?  (I'm really hoping the answer is "yes".)

I've waited a long time to bounce a signal off the moon, if I need to make a reservation for certain days and times to avoid galactic noise, no problem.


 
 

[Electro Fan]

Unless I'm missing something, it is possible for an EME system to send and receive a signal (ie, the system can listen for it's own echo), as opposed to, for example, someone in Chicago transmitting a signal to the Moon and someone in Paris receiving the signal and then informing the person in Chicago via QSO that the signal was received in Paris.  I'd prefer Chicago-Moon-Chicago vs. Chicago-Moon-Paris-Chicago (or Chicago-Moon-Paris-Moon-Chicago).  My impression so far is that Chicago-Moon-Chicago will take a bigger antenna than Chicago-Moon-Paris QSO to Chicago, if any of that makes sense.   Thanks

Yes, the speed-of-light constraint means that you will need more link margin for an echo to yourself, vs communication with another station.  The relative distances are irrelevant, of course.  But the maximum duration of the transmission is fixed at the round-trip-time (minus any Tx/Rx switching overhead).  This in turn sets an upper limit on Eb (energy per bit) for a given antenna pair, transmit power, and receiver noise floor.  Whereas if you were talking to someone else, you could transmit much longer and achieve a much higher Eb.

In practice it is worse than that, because the purpose-designed modes like JT65 require a long transmission (one minute I believe).  Thus, getting your own echo back not only places a theoretical limit on Eb but also soaks you with a big penalty for giving up the coding gain of the more sophisticated modulation types.

Of course, it would still be really cool to hear your own voice echoing off the moon

mark03 - that was a great set of info!  It helps clarify a lot!  Thanks!!

I get that the transmission duration is bounded (to approximately 2 seconds).  What I hadn't yet factored in is that a longer transmission would achieve a (much) higher Eb. (Roughly, what's the penalty for 2 seconds vs 1 minute?)

Additionally, I completely missed on the notion that JT65 type transmission techniques require a somewhat long transmission.  I guess in order to sort out what's signal and what's noise JT65 needs more information?  I fully believe that a huge part of the link budget's potential efficiency gain comes from the modulation's coding gain. 

So, does this mean with 1 Yagi and 2 second  transmissions (and the resulting weakened JT65) that Chicago-Moon-Chicago (up and down with a single EME system) is not happening? 

[Alphatronique]

Hi 

the 1 minute sequence was since it repeat information lot of time so it heavy FCC error correction

but you may send only a un-modulated carrier for 1 second then stop and hear it back  wsjt software handle it in echo test mode

remember that whit bit rate increase you also increase bandwhit and the noise  ,so that wly EME communication was so slow

if you what to test a receive station tune it to 143.05Mhz  that the french radar grave ,if you not hear it you not be able to listen Ham station

[Electro Fan]

Hi 

the 1 minute sequence was since it repeat information lot of time so it heavy FCC error correction

but you may send only a un-modulated carrier for 1 second then stop and hear it back  wsjt software handle it in echo test mode

remember that whit bit rate increase you also increase bandwhit and the noise  ,so that wly EME communication was so slow

if you what to test a receive station tune it to 143.05Mhz  that the french radar grave ,if you not hear it you not be able to listen Ham station

OK, 1 minute helps the FEC, roger that

But with a 1 second transmission WSJT will use "echo mode?"  This negates the need for the FEC?

So, a 1 Yagi antenna with a 1 second transmission using WSJT in echo mode will enable a signal to be transmitted and then received by the same EME station?

I feel like a ping pong ball 

[mark03]

I don't actually have the numbers to tell you what you can hear with a given antenna and TX power, transmitting two seconds of carrier and then listening.  With some research you should be able to work out the whole link budget and see.  (I have never operated EME.)  In principle you can keep reducing your receive bandwidth until the SNR is high enough to see the signal... which is what I think Alphatronique was suggesting with spectrogram software.  But remember that a two-second carrier is still not a continuous carrier, and thus it still has finite bandwidth.

To answer (or evade answering) your other questions re: coding and energy per bit... it's complicated.  In principle you can increase Eb without limit by transmitting longer symbols, subject only to your patience for a 0.000001 bps throughput   For some channels, e.g. VLF, you really can go almost as slow as you like (e.g. this transatlantic 8-kHz signal detection using ~ 150 microwatts effective radiated power: http://w4dex.com/vlf/8971Hz/).  Most of the time, though, you end up being limited by the channel's phase coherence.  I think I read the EME channel has a coherence time of a few seconds (you should verify this), which would mean longer transmitted symbols have no advantage.  So you transmit a series of symbols of that length and use sophisticated error-correction coding, which is what JT65 is doing.

My suggestion is, make a modest investment that will give you plenty of opportunity to play around and get hooked on this stuff first.  Then you will have a much better feel for next steps.