Make PCBs using a mini CNC Router under $200!

[FirstTry]

Hi everyone, I have did some research to find a cheap CNC router to make prototype PCBs and I have came across this one: https://www.amazon.com/MYSWEETY-Engraving-16x10x4-5cm-110V-240V-Extension/dp/B0778KCLS7/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8. So I have bought one, not expecting much and the result were very good, clean circuit boards. I've got the traces as thin as 0.6 mm. I have made a YouTube video showing the process of make a PCB using this machine. I also have the parts I have used and the software in the description.
Here is the video:


--The picture below is the end result of the PCB using this cheap CNC Router--

[Simon]

That is your FirstTry and LastTry at posting spam!

[mrpackethead]

That is your FirstTry and LastTry at posting spam!

I don't see how is this a spam. I was just about to post a review on Bantam Tools, Carbide 3D and LPKF S104.

If its got LPKF it doe'snt matter how good it is, while the distirbutor in Australia is still there, I'll never ever touch it.   Awsome product. Worst service ever.

[coppice]

If its got LPKF it doe'snt matter how good it is, while the distirbutor in Australia is still there, I'll never ever touch it.   Awsome product. Worst service ever.

They are certainly great at collecting dust on shelf in a dark corner.

[tautech]

That is your FirstTry and LastTry at posting spam!

I don't see how is this a spam. I was just about to post a review on Bantam Tools, Carbide 3D and LPKF S104.

Agreed, all 3 videos on his YT channel are of interest to hobbyists.

That is your FirstTry and LastTry at posting spam!

What as admin do you see we can't ? 

[Simon]

All the links looked like amazon links and I gotseveral reports of affiliate links. I should have checked more thoroughly but was at work atd it appeared to tick all ef the boxes. The OP will repost his videos.

[FirstTry]

The picture I posted was the PCB I engraved with a mini CNC router for less than $200. That PCB in the picture took 1 min to make, I can even make two sided PCBs with this machine. Basically this machine is perfect for PCB prototyping, because when you need to make a change to the circuit, you can just change it in the program and hit print. For such a small price, it gets great results.   

[Simon]

we live by the Simon's rule here, the anointed one by Dave himself . he defines what is a spam what is not, i havent seen the (deleted) original post, but i'm still trying to figure out what the definition is and where the borderline is so i will not get banned myself, the (untouched) attached picture in OP is nice tho just not sure what its all about, i have Bethan machine here that can do a diy pcb just about like that. iirc being from allaboutcircuit or somesort ee forum elsewhere, he must have brought some definitions from there, i dont know .

A first post with links always draws suspicion. As you know this forum is heavily targeted by PCB spam.

[bsdphk]

So, just to bring some facts into this topic.

Yes, you can do it, and the results are usable.

When I initially tried this on my Proxxon MF70, the big problem was getting the height optimized:  You're trying to remove 35µm on top of 1 millimeter of fiber-glass substrate with a very generous thickness tolerance.

Usually you would blunt your bit carving fiberglass in one part of the PCB and not get all the way through the copper on other parts.

I came up with the "probing" step you see in the video, (my original post is at http://phk.freebsd.dk/CncPcb/) which calibrates the thickness of the PCB into the G-code.

With a good all-metal CNC, like the MF70, that will get you down to feature-sizes in 5mil range if you really work at it.

As a bonus, you can drill your holes automatically and precisly, and route the board out in any shape you care for.

Double-sided boards require a bit of planning, but if you are going to make mounting-holes in the PCB anyway, they can be used for registration.

However...

While it works fine for small PCBs, larger PCB's are trouble.

The copper on PCB's are often under tension, and as you route it into small pieces the substrate will bend upwards and the Z-calibraiton becomes useless. Then you find out that you need a vacuum table for your CNC, and now you need another shop-vac, one for the dust and one for the vacuum table and...

It also takes a lot of time to get a good result, routing a 1980'ies level complexity 10x16 eurocard will take you a significant fraction of a day.

And if you use fine-pitch components, you will *really* come to appreciate how cheap soldermask is, for the value it adds.

Finally, the absolute critical quality for the CNC is the Z-axis resolution and stability, and a lot of home-built CNC's have neither.

But there is a LOT of satisfaction in going from idea to PCB in the same day, and I still do it when that is the urge.

But most of the time, I wait for the PCB's to arrive in the post, if nothing else then for the solder-mask.

/phk

[FirstTry]

So, just to bring some facts into this topic.

Yes, you can do it, and the results are usable.

When I initially tried this on my Proxxon MF70, the big problem was getting the height optimized:  You're trying to remove 35µm on top of 1 millimeter of fiber-glass substrate with a very generous thickness tolerance.

Usually you would blunt your bit carving fiberglass in one part of the PCB and not get all the way through the copper on other parts.

I came up with the "probing" step you see in the video, (my original post is at http://phk.freebsd.dk/CncPcb/) which calibrates the thickness of the PCB into the G-code.

With a good all-metal CNC, like the MF70, that will get you down to feature-sizes in 5mil range if you really work at it.

As a bonus, you can drill your holes automatically and precisly, and route the board out in any shape you care for.

Double-sided boards require a bit of planning, but if you are going to make mounting-holes in the PCB anyway, they can be used for registration.

However...

While it works fine for small PCBs, larger PCB's are trouble.

The copper on PCB's are often under tension, and as you route it into small pieces the substrate will bend upwards and the Z-calibraiton becomes useless. Then you find out that you need a vacuum table for your CNC, and now you need another shop-vac, one for the dust and one for the vacuum table and...

It also takes a lot of time to get a good result, routing a 1980'ies level complexity 10x16 eurocard will take you a significant fraction of a day.

And if you use fine-pitch components, you will *really* come to appreciate how cheap soldermask is, for the value it adds.

Finally, the absolute critical quality for the CNC is the Z-axis resolution and stability, and a lot of home-built CNC's have neither.

But there is a LOT of satisfaction in going from idea to PCB in the same day, and I still do it when that is the urge.

But most of the time, I wait for the PCB's to arrive in the post, if nothing else then for the solder-mask.

/phk

I get where your coming from, but first of all this machine is a mini router, so its meant for generally small PCBs. I'm a EE student so I make a lot of projects using custom circuits I design. I would usually send the designs to a manufacture to make it for me. The problem is those circuits were prototype circuits, so the manufacture takes sometimes 2 months to get delivered and if I wanted to change something on the design, I would have to resent it. I also didn't want to use chemicals to etch it. Yes like any CNC machine/mill it will generate some dust and I do have a vacuum, but mostly for the larger circuit.

Regarding the boards, I am not using FR-4 boards, which are fiberglass, I am using FR-1 boards which work perfectly and don't ruin my bits. This machine has "height map" or "z-probing" which I use for every circuit I make, though I didn't need it in the circuit that was in the video. The two sided tape I used make the boards make the boards very flat and only need z-probing for larger circuits. Once I got all the settings set, I just design the circuit, convert to G-code and hit send. The machine is pretty accurate at that point. Every circuit I made came out the same quality circuits as the video without worrying about "Z-axis". In the video you see me leveling z-axis with paper, because I haven't yet set the G-code to "home" the z-axis. I installed limit switches as well for "homing", so once I hit "home" then everything is ready to print. I didn't drill holes in the video, because it was just a sample surface mount circuit.

I got the circuit traces as thin as 0.6mm, I even made a complete surface mount circuit with IC chips that worked perfectly, I needed a solder mask on the board to avoid bridging. If you check on my channel, the second part, I applied the UV solder mask on the circuit from the video without buying expansive types of plastic. I use solder mask for every circuit I make and then I just tin the pads.

Overall, for this price this is a decent machine for prototyping circuits. Once I like the circuit and everything works, then I would set it to a manufacture. This machine was not homemade build, but rather put together from a kit.

[edavid]

Where do you buy the FR-1 stock?

[tautech]

So, just to bring some facts into this topic..............

I get where your coming from,.........

Facts are he didn't watch your video and see how you managed issues.

Nicely done................carry on ! 

[FirstTry]

Where do you buy the FR-1 stock?

I have the link of where I got all the parts/programs I used in the description of the video. I don't want to put a link to it here, don't want to be counted as spam again, but if you check out the video on YouTube, everything is all there in the description, including difference between FR-1 and FR-4 board.

[FirstTry]

my DIY "Bethan" can do almost like that, and drilling pcb holes is also almost a breeze compared to try drilling with hand esp the 0.6 - 0.8mm bits, but... the biggest issue is when i start populating components.. with many 1.27mm pitch ICs? i created more short bridges during soldering, even more time needed to fix that, and i start to feeling sick by that. for that, i purchased solder mask solution, but scraping, laser print mask, baking and exposing under UV is too much work in my confined space here, so i just send to pcb maker like seeedstudio. saved my time from solder bridge bullshit. but maybe when i get my space expanded and equipments are in the right order and place, maybe i'll get back my Bethan machine working again. for now its sitting there in the store just to remind me how can i make such a device from scratch possible. currently building a bigger and more proper CNC (6040 size) machine, should be able to do your trick as well.

Nice, yeah mine came in a kit to put together, if you look on my YouTube channel on a video called "applying UV solder mask" I showed the process of applying with a UV ink that I exposed to UV light for like 10 min and then I just tinned the pads and all good. Are you using UV dry film solder mask or UV ink solder mask? Yeah I have the "CNC 1610" size but these machines are not bad for the price.

[FirstTry]

Hey everyone, make sure to check the description of this video on YouTube for more info and links to all parts and software used in the video, if you want to get one yourself. Also my other videos such as applying UV solder mask to the PCB.

[tautech]

Hey everyone, make sure to check the description of this video on YouTube for more info and links to all parts and software used in the video, if you want to get one yourself. Also my other videos such as applying UV solder mask to the PCB.

Feel free to post links to parts or resources that you do not have any interest in.

Admin made a mistake when judging your first post so consider the warning but join the fun here. 

[bsdphk]

I get where your coming from, but first of all this machine is a mini router, so its meant for generally small PCBs.

And as I said:  That works fine, and that is what I use my own CNC for.

Because I invented the Z-probing/leveling thing, I receive emails from people who invested money in CNC routers only to be disappointed, so I wanted to caution that this is not by any stretch of the imagination a miracle solution:  It takes determination and time, lots of time.

And if FR1 is OK in your application, it is certainly easier to work with and to hold down than FR4.

What we really need is a usable spray-on solder-mask which can be removed with a semiconductor laser mounted on the CNC :-)

[ebclr]

Shame on Simon, Chinese are looking for censors may you can apply

[calvinlove0]

Yes currently banging my head against the wall with LPKF service.

[moffy]

Shame on Simon, Chinese are looking for censors may you can apply

Give the guy a break, we all make mistakes it is what we do afterwards that is important, learn from it or not.