Sprint Day 0: An Open Source ventilator project you can believe in.

[Enginerding]

Great post Flooby. I'm Dan, it's a pleasure to meet you. Someone who has seen other projects fail is absolutely a guy to have around.  Especially if they're Canadian.

I figure it like this; worst case I learn a ton about something outside my current scope.  Which is why I'm drawn to the hobby anyways.  Best case?  Well best case we make the damn thing.  Either way, we win.

You're right, a CNC project won't work. 

Do you mind if I ask you what technical specialties you have?  Thanks mate.

[magic]

I served a few tours in combat in Iraq, after that I went to a large state university where I graduated first in my class academically with a 4.0 GPA in Comp Sci.

Are you a Navy SEAL too by any chance?
Sorry

Seriously though,

I don't have the skill to build a ventilator by myself, none of us do.  But this eevBlog community does.

Start with searching for "open source oscilloscope" around here
Those threads always go the same way.

[Simon]

The poll is a joke, both answers are yes. This whole things is a joke. I don't want to descend into stereotypes but...... 

[magic]

The poll is clearly a joke but I think OP is in it for real

[Enginerding]

To evaluate this we'll need a few each of volunteers who have specialization/experience with;

- motor guys (brushless DC blower motors?)
- display, human interface dudes.
- power supply people
- pressure sensors/wheatstone bridge types (I have experience here with IPB sensors)
- instrumentation op-amp types
- ADC guys

To name a few...what else?

Anyone want to share their hard-earned knowledge?

C'mon, I know you smart-asses can run circles around me.  I have a MIS degree.

[Simon]

someone that knows how a ventilator works?

[Daixiwen]

maybe someone with a medical background? just sayin'

[Enginerding]

someone that knows how a ventilator works?

Would you like to join the steering committee?

[Enginerding]

maybe someone with a medical background? just sayin'

Done; a hospital anesthetist contributing who uses ventilators everyday, as stated in OP, and I have 19 years of emergency medical experience.   If we get down the progress road, I will be happy to bring in a colleague who's an emergency physician.  Though, I think the anesthetist will satisfice for now.

Would you like to join the steering committee?

[EEVblog]

Sweet Dave!  It would certainly be one approach to create a rote list of all projects.  Then discard them one by one.
[/quote]

I would hope that anyone with any capabilities that could help here would want to, at a minimum try and decide which existing project may be the most worthwhile and perhaps need those skills first, rather than sign up for the "from scratch" "moon-shot"

What I'd like to do is wait until there is ~20 upvotes.  At that point, it's more likely that if someone has "hot lead" they cite it, rather than "proving a negative".  The people in this community have a nose for what'll work.
Sound good?

Nope, 20 "upvotes" means nothing. You have no idea of the capabilities of the 20 people who have "signed up", let alone assessing they are for real.
Wouldn't want to spend the next 3-7 days doing that and then come up empty handed... Technically, that search could go on continuously even after that, as new people come on board... 

Look, I don't want to be deliberately non-contributory here, nor disparage anyone's efforts, but I honestly can't help but find the approach you are taking here to be rather humorous.

[Enginerding]

What I'd like to do is wait until there is ~20 upvotes.  At that point, it's more likely that if someone has "hot lead" they cite it, rather than "proving a negative".  The people in this community have a nose for what'll work.
Sound good?

Nope, 20 "upvotes" means nothing. You have no idea of the capabilities of the 20 people who have "signed up", let alone assessing they are for real.
Wouldn't want to spend the next 3-7 days doing that and then come up empty handed... Technically, that search could go on continuously even after that, as new people come on board... 

Look, I don't want to be deliberately non-contributory here, nor disparage anyone's efforts, but I honestly can't help but find the approach you are taking here to be rather humorous.

Incidentally, I plan on this project being this entertaining and humorous, always. 

My first intent, is of course to see if the community exists for the project.

I'm a big believer in the Socratic method.  How would you find volunteers for a project?

-Dan

[EEVblog]

You are the one who has claimed they don't have promise, please explain why they don't.

Agree.
Here's the Github for the project University of Florida Medical School Project I linked before.  I read the files, not much more than a theory of operation.  No BOM. 
https://github.com/CSSALTlab/Open_Source_Ventilator

Ok. But at least I see spec documents for what seems like all the main modules, and some source code. Lats commit a weeks ago, so maybe they have more and just haven't checked it in yet because they too busy working on stuff?
You'd have to check whatever chat/forum type system they are likely using to coordinate to get the latest stuff.
At least they have something.
Again, why does it not seem "promising"? they are more advanced than what you have. Is there something fundamentally wrong with their approach?

[EEVblog]

I'm a big believer in the Socratic method.  How would you find volunteers for a project?

There are three ways to find and woo technical talent:
1) Money

2) Come up with a cool concept and base platform that people want to work on. And no, an open source ventilator to save the world idea is not enough, as there are a dozen other people competing for the same talent. So you need to show up-front that have something tangible and you know what you are doing. A boast about being a great organiser is not enough.

3) They want to work with other talent. This is how big startups with even dumb ideas like uBeam get world class people to work for them. Talent comes because they want to work with other talent. It's kinda a chicken and egg thing though.

[EEVblog]

someone that knows how a ventilator works?

Would you like to join the steering committee?

I suspect he can't, he's too busy perfecting his sarcasm generator.

[Enginerding]

You are the one who has claimed they don't have promise, please explain why they don't.

Agree.
Here's the Github for the project University of Florida Medical School Project I linked before.  I read the files, not much more than a theory of operation.  No BOM. 
https://github.com/CSSALTlab/Open_Source_Ventilator

Ok. But at least I see spec documents for what seems like all the main modules, and some source code. Lats commit a weeks ago, so maybe they have more and just haven't checked it in yet because they too busy working on stuff?
You'd have to check whatever chat/forum type system they are likely using to coordinate to get the latest stuff.
At least they have something.
Again, why does it not seem "promising"? they are more advanced than what you have. Is there something fundamentally wrong with their approach?

This is their forum.  https://simulation.health.ufl.edu/forums/forum/open-source-ventilator-project/

Fewer unique posts than this thread.  It's marketing wank.  Maybe this is a uniquely American thing, but in the US universities do projects like this to generate media, not for completion.

Also, I've proposed the first step be to identify existing projects.  As you can see, it's quite arduous and no single person could effectively do it.  Hence, community.

-Dan

[Enginerding]

someone that knows how a ventilator works?

Would you like to join the steering committee?

I suspect he can't, he's too busy perfecting his sarcasm generator.

Honestly not sarcasm.  I'm Autistic, so I speak in a very straightforward way.

I think Simon would be a great asset, which is why I think he'd be great on the steering committee.

-Dan

[EEVblog]

To evaluate this we'll need a few each of volunteers who have specialization/experience with;
- motor guys (brushless DC blower motors?)
- display, human interface dudes.
- power supply people
- pressure sensors/wheatstone bridge types (I have experience here with IPB sensors)
- instrumentation op-amp types
- ADC guys
To name a few...what else?

Some who actually knows about ventilator design in detail. Not just using them, not just a doctor, not just an emergency specialist, but an actual designer who knows the intricate detail of existing commercial ventilator designs and can replicate it. Probably people from a CPAP background at least.
If you don't have that expertise, even with the best mechanical and product design people in the world, it's a no-go.
Unless of course you want to be one of the other many DIY kludge projects. But hey, to be fair, a good DIY kludge project might help some people if done right. But you also have to be sure it's not going to kill people.

[EEVblog]

You are the one who has claimed they don't have promise, please explain why they don't.

Agree.
Here's the Github for the project University of Florida Medical School Project I linked before.  I read the files, not much more than a theory of operation.  No BOM. 
https://github.com/CSSALTlab/Open_Source_Ventilator

Ok. But at least I see spec documents for what seems like all the main modules, and some source code. Lats commit a weeks ago, so maybe they have more and just haven't checked it in yet because they too busy working on stuff?
You'd have to check whatever chat/forum type system they are likely using to coordinate to get the latest stuff.
At least they have something.
Again, why does it not seem "promising"? they are more advanced than what you have. Is there something fundamentally wrong with their approach?

This is their forum.  https://simulation.health.ufl.edu/forums/forum/open-source-ventilator-project/

Fewer unique posts than this thread.  It's marketing wank.  Maybe this is a uniquely American thing, but in the US universities do projects like this to generate media, not for completion.

Ok, tick (or cross). Next.
Go through the list, it's not going to take a week. Perhaps you'll luck upon one that is doing well?

[EEVblog]

someone that knows how a ventilator works?

Would you like to join the steering committee?

I suspect he can't, he's too busy perfecting his sarcasm generator.

Honestly not sarcasm.

It was sarcasm from Simon, because it was obvious to everyone that such a team needed someone first and foremost someone who knows how to design a working and effective and safe ventilator.

[Daixiwen]

maybe someone with a medical background? just sayin'

Done; a hospital anesthetist contributing who uses ventilators everyday, as stated in OP, and I have 19 years of emergency medical experience.   If we get down the progress road, I will be happy to bring in a colleague who's an emergency physician.  Though, I think the anesthetist will satisfice for now.

I was more thinking about someone having design experience in medical equipment. Electronics need to be a bit more robust than the usual, and some suppliers don't even want to sell components for medical use.

[Enginerding]

I have to get a few hours sleep, since it's very late here in the US.

Dave and Simon, chew on it --

When might be the next time you work on a project that saves the lives of 20,000 people?

Maybe 50,000!

[EEVblog]

Someone just email me this:
https://www.facebook.com/pg/VentilAid-113367330296374/posts/

[Simon]

someone that knows how a ventilator works?

Would you like to join the steering committee?

I suspect he can't, he's too busy perfecting his sarcasm generator.

Honestly not sarcasm.  I'm Autistic, so I speak in a very straightforward way.

I think Simon would be a great asset, which is why I think he'd be great on the steering committee.

-Dan

I was the one being sarcastic. Autism and organizing people do not go together, i know that being on the spectrum as well. I am afraid I have nothing to offer, but it seems you are trying to collect a list of people that know about components before you have made a list of what you need which starts right at the top with people that understand how these things are supposed to work as they have to interact with the human body and someone that knows how these things need making safe. No point in a life saving device that fails whilst saving someones life.

In the UK they have 2 approaches, one more stupid than the other because they wanted to play politics over brexit and refused to join the EU procurement effort. One group are turning any available manufacturing to making parts for an existing design whilst the governing parties best mate wanker Dyson is teamed up with a medical company to design one from scratch. Of course the misleading headlines are that Dyson is saving the country by "just making ventilators instead of overpriced fans" no mention of the medical know how he has had to bring in.

[Bud]

Please excuse my ignorance- how are you going to  certify and get your ventilators on the hospital floor? They are life saving devices, for which i imagine a procedure or two exist to make that happen.

[floobydust]

[...] Do you mind if I ask you what technical specialties you have?  Thanks mate.

I'm one of the old dogs that hang out here. Engineer for 26 years and electronics tech for 10 years before that, in a dozen different industries doing product development. The only biomedical work was controlling artificial limbs for amputees and War Amps, and R&D with doctors on FES for paraplegics.

I keep trying to see if the project is feasible. No amount of good intentions can ensure project success. Why is everyone reinventing the wheel because there is a shortage of the usual wheel?
GM has almost 60 people alone just doing parts procurement for that Ventec ventilator 
I can't see a community building anything that a hospital would let in their doors - the liability for something that is not to medical standards is just too much. I'm not sure when the possibility of death outweighs that.

In a magical unicorn world, you could walk in to Home Depot and pick up all the parts to make a ventilator. That would be an interesting experiment.
Number one is the air pump - what is to be used? Compressed air source, bellows, turbine fan. Are these parts off the shelf or from the Unicorn Supply Co. ?

The blower in CPAP machines is high performance. Two-stage turbine and high speed maybe 30k RPM brushless motor. I have pictures and a typical patent is US20190334418A1, but I think a decent turbine that could be 3D printed and not fly to pieces would be impossible to make. Have to hack a Dyson although they are yet another company on the 'make a ventilator' bandwagon. They can't do it- the medical standards, safety requirements and liability are all foreign to Dyson. A vacuum cleaner that can kill. No nooby companies are going to step into this, despite the fame and glory.

There are many ventilator/cpap patents that briefly explain what a ventilator does. US8051852B2