Sprint Day 0: An Open Source ventilator project you can believe in.

[Enginerding]

Hi, I'm Dan, an American. I'm no great engineer, but I'm one heck of a planner and people organizer.  I've been involved in Emergency Medicine for 19 years as an Army 68 Whiskey, Tactical Medic/TC3, EMT-Advanced; 3 years serving and leading in combat (I also have an Anesthetist who can advise on ventilator technicals).  I don't have the skill to build a ventilator by myself, none of us do.  But this eevBlog community does.  Personally, I like great challenges, hard work, and the Apollo 13 story gives me wood.

Engineering wood.

The situation:

1st World countries like the US, Australia, the UK, France, Germany, etc are probably going to be OK on ventilators.  However, the developing world, India, Brazil, etc, could see severe shortages, and utter devastation.

I've searched hi and lo, looking for a ventilator project that has promise, but I haven't found anything that goes past raw concepts, or idealism w/o necessary skill.  I can promise you there will be none of that here -- we'll hit of our marks.

If you're interested in this undertaking, vote in the poll -- it's an aggressive project for strong-spirited individuals, it's not for everyone, even though everyone can contribute.   I've set a time limit of 24 hours on the poll, feel free to comment below with your hard technical skills and an intro.  If 20 people join, we'll quickly form the steering and planning committees and move forward with answering the first critical question:

Does a fully operational open source ventilator already exist w/ a suitable BOM for the developing world?

motivation here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6F6MzMT2g8

[Enginerding]

About me:  I served a few tours in combat in Iraq, after that I went to a large state university where I graduated first in my class academically with a 4.0 GPA in Comp Sci.  I'm not an engineer by trade.

I fairly rate myself on the following skills:

Wheatstone bridge/pressure sensors:  3/5
small signal amplification, instrumentation amplifiers:  3/5
ADCs: 2/5
microcontrollers, Arduino IDE: 2/5
Power supply design: 2/5
CAD: 2/5

[TopLoser]

Not yet another bloody ventilator related post?!

I can’t get my breath.

[ArthurDent]

Please no.

[ArthurDent]

Interestingly I got a PM to my above post that read in part: “Hi Arthur.  I'd like to ask you to remove your post.  It serves no positive purpose, and purposely sets a negative tone against a charitable purpose.”

After a moment of thought I’ve decided not to remove my proper response and I will go further in explaining my reply. You just don’t wake up one day and say: “I think I’ll build an extremely complex and expensive piece of equipment called a ventilator.” While your intentions may be laudable if you don’t have the knowledge to carry out such an extreme undertaking and you’re trying to get volunteers on an internet forum (no matter how talented they may be) to join you in this quest, you just shouldn’t do it. If you can use your skills as “one heck of a planner and organizer” to eventually gain the knowledge, get some really talented professionals in the field, and get some financial backers with lots of cash, you won’t need to ask us for support. What will be telling is if you can write up a proposal that can persuade engineers and big finance professionals to join and support you-that would mean something, but you are far from that point.  So my reply is still, respectfully, “please no.” 

[Enginerding]

Arthur, your lack of self-esteem is showing big.

There's a human tragedy unfolding, and some people want to do something about it.

The people who've upvoted this project don't have time for you to waste by clogging the thread.

Be gone.  I'm sure you've heard this before.

[Bud]

The vote options  you give both imply "Yes" to the poll question "I want to join the steering committee".   

[Enginerding]

Optimal choice architecture, no? 

What other options should I add, Bud?  Always open to good jokes or positive suggestions.

[Bud]

Know what, I am not really surprised given your military background. You did not expect anything less than "Yes Sir!" 

[beanflying]

Arthur, your lack of self-esteem is showing big.

There's a human tragedy unfolding, and some people want to do something about it.

The people who've upvoted this project don't have time for you to waste by clogging the thread.

Be gone.  I'm sure you've heard this before.

Yet another attempt from scratch is not what is needed or what will be of use in the next two to three weeks! If you want to help then you are a month+ late and if you have time skills and energy then offer what you have to an existing project.

It is YOU who is wasting time on attempting to create this and you who is clogging this sites bandwidth doing it.

[Enginerding]

Bean, does that mean you're volunteering to help?

If not, you're just wasting your breath.  True story friend.

[beanflying]

Bean, does that mean you're volunteering to help?

If not, you're just wasting your breath.  True story friend.

As you appear to be a pompous prick intent on controlling this thread you are wasting yours. Take your Ego and time and place it where you will do some good.

[Enginerding]

Know what, I am not really surprised given your military background. You did not expect anything less than "Yes Sir!" 

I was a Sergeant, not a "Sir" lol.  As the saying goes "I work for a living".

I get the feeling that by kicking around here you want to throw in.  What sort of technical background do you have, if you don't mind me asking?

[BravoV]

Instead of countering every rejections, your energy better spent on by adding the "NO" as other option.

PS : This it self shows you're not really good at "organizing" bunch of people.

[Enginerding]

Bean, does that mean you're volunteering to help?

If not, you're just wasting your breath.  True story friend.

As you appear to be a pompous prick intent on controlling this thread you are wasting yours. Take your Ego and time and place it where you will do some good.

I've been called worse.

You're doing this project a great service; the more you talk, the more people see the thread and vote to join.  Since you commented, 3 new people.

Can you continue?  You'd be doing this project a great help.

[EEVblog]

After a moment of thought I’ve decided not to remove my proper response and I will go further in explaining my reply. You just don’t wake up one day and say: “I think I’ll build an extremely complex and expensive piece of equipment called a ventilator.” While your intentions may be laudable if you don’t have the knowledge to carry out such an extreme undertaking and you’re trying to get volunteers on an internet forum (no matter how talented they may be) to join you in this quest, you just shouldn’t do it. If you can use your skills as “one heck of a planner and organizer” to eventually gain the knowledge, get some really talented professionals in the field, and get some financial backers with lots of cash, you won’t need to ask us for support. What will be telling is if you can write up a proposal that can persuade engineers and big finance professionals to join and support you-that would mean something, but you are far from that point. 

I'll have to side with Authur on this one.
Whilst the intent is laudable, what is there to show other than enthusiasm and a poll to join a "steering committee"? 

I've searched hi and lo, looking for a ventilator project that has promise, but I haven't found anything that goes past raw concepts, or idealism w/o necessary skill.  I can promise you there will be none of that here -- we'll hit of our marks.

You haven't even hit your first mark yet which would be some sort of concept, drawings, proposal etc.
Perhaps you can at least start by explaining why none of the other projects you have looked at have "promise", because from what I have seen they are far more advanced than your post and poll on a forum.
The thing is, you have asked a forum full of engineers to get involved in designing something complex without offering any starting platform. You can't expect engineers to shout woo-hoo!, lets do this!, we are more pragmatic than that.

[ArthurDent]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/tech/mercedes-f1-breathing-aid-coronavirus/index.html?utm_term=link&utm_source=fbCNN&utm_medium=social&utm_content=2020-03-30T11%3A00%3A06&fbclid=IwAR3obrKqZy5SP07C9EtBJpDTSd2U69xp_LydP7ngI870bLrkgAoGgPs9WPQ

[Enginerding]

Hey Dave!

So, you're in mate or do I have to do some convincing? lol

Let's size it up for what it is;  the developing World might be in deep, deep crap in the next few weeks.  Sadly, and there's nothing they can do about it but get punched in the face.

There may be a better project out there as you said; I proposed in OP (bolded text) that be the first task to determine.  And if there is a working project, let's bring it to light, and perhaps we can help them adopt the BOM for improvisation in the developing World.  Then call it a day.

But if your experience down there is anything like mine, there's 10 projects a day being touted by media, but when I chase them down, they're not much more than napkin sketches (here's one:  https://www.news4jax.com/health/2020/03/30/uf-researchers-develop-low-cost-open-source-ventilator/).  You've got a stellar eye for quality-- if any of the projects you've seen are "the one", please share.

But if they were, we wouldn't be having this conversation, right?  Think about it.

[Enginerding]

This opportunity might not come again. An opportunity to literally, *literally* save lives.

And I'll close with this; the community you've built is the only distributed community in the world that has the resources to do this moonshot.   No one's ever done this before.  Would you like to be the first?

-Dan

[Enginerding]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/tech/mercedes-f1-breathing-aid-coronavirus/index.html?utm_term=link&utm_source=fbCNN&utm_medium=social&utm_content=2020-03-30T11%3A00%3A06&fbclid=IwAR3obrKqZy5SP07C9EtBJpDTSd2U69xp_LydP7ngI870bLrkgAoGgPs9WPQ

Can you run that one down Art?

- Do they have a Github to evaluate?
- Is there a BOM?
- What's your judgement of it?

Thanks.

[EEVblog]

There may be a better project out there as you said; I proposed in OP (bolded text) that be the first task to determine.  And if there is a working project, let's bring it to light, and perhaps we can help them adopt the BOM for improvisation in the developing World.  Then call it a day.

Sure, as a starting point why don't you start listing projects, and as I said explain why you think they don't have "promise".
You can edit your first post in this thread with a list of projects.
That's what a "planner and people organizer" does 

But if your experience down there is anything like mine, there's 10 projects a day being touted by media, but when I chase them down, they're not much more than napkin sketches (here's one:  https://www.news4jax.com/health/2020/03/30/uf-researchers-develop-low-cost-open-source-ventilator/).  You've got a stellar eye for quality-- if any of the projects you've seen are "the one", please share.

I know nothing about ventilators or the mechanics or the fluid dynamics etc involved, no point asking me.

But if they were, we wouldn't be having this conversation, right?  Think about it.

You are the one who has claimed they don't have promise, please explain why they don't.

[EEVblog]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/tech/mercedes-f1-breathing-aid-coronavirus/index.html?utm_term=link&utm_source=fbCNN&utm_medium=social&utm_content=2020-03-30T11%3A00%3A06&fbclid=IwAR3obrKqZy5SP07C9EtBJpDTSd2U69xp_LydP7ngI870bLrkgAoGgPs9WPQ

Can you run that one down Art?
- Do they have a Github to evaluate?
- Is there a BOM?
- What's your judgement of it?

I don't think that project is designed to be open or collaborative outside of the partners.

[floobydust]

Open-source hardware projects largely fail. They just don't work out I find, because the requirements, scope of work are never nailed down and the community is full of people wanting more features until the project is undoable. Trolls add the final death blow by derailing the thread into squabbling and fighting.

OP has the positive energy on a project that is quite difficult because ventilators are "mission critical" and people die when they don't work, and think about why commercial units cost $10,000-$50,000. Yes there is major fat (pun intended) due to the medical industry's markup, but in reality these machines are complicated having a zillion parts. Look at the one Trump has GM/Ventec working in, it's a literal spaceship inside.

The MIT open-souce ventilator student project, I think is silly because it has so many CNC-machined bits and relies on compressing an Ambu bag which is intended for manual use. It would get cycled 22,000 times/day and I think it would fail due to fatigue and granny would die. It has no metering and seems to use a brushed motor, so mostly a mechanical design.

[Enginerding]

Sweet Dave!  It would certainly be one approach to create a rote list of all projects.  Then discard them one by one.   

Imho, that would be a Pyrrhic approach; we could do that for the next 3-7 days, and there's a good chance we'd still be empty-handed.  Technically, that search could go on continuously even after that, as new projects are touted in media.

What I'd like to do is wait until there is ~20 upvotes.  At that point, it's more likely that if someone has "hot lead" they cite it, rather than "proving a negative".  The people in this community have a nose for what'll work.

Sound good?

[Enginerding]

There may be a better project out there as you said; I proposed in OP (bolded text) that be the first task to determine.  And if there is a working project, let's bring it to light, and perhaps we can help them adopt the BOM for improvisation in the developing World.  Then call it a day.

Sure, as a starting point why don't you start listing projects, and as I said explain why you think they don't have "promise".
You can edit your first post in this thread with a list of projects.
That's what a "planner and people organizer" does 

But if your experience down there is anything like mine, there's 10 projects a day being touted by media, but when I chase them down, they're not much more than napkin sketches (here's one:  https://www.news4jax.com/health/2020/03/30/uf-researchers-develop-low-cost-open-source-ventilator/).  You've got a stellar eye for quality-- if any of the projects you've seen are "the one", please share.

I know nothing about ventilators or the mechanics or the fluid dynamics etc involved, no point asking me.

But if they were, we wouldn't be having this conversation, right?  Think about it.

You are the one who has claimed they don't have promise, please explain why they don't.

Agree.

Here's the Github for the project University of Florida Medical School Project I linked before.  I read the files, not much more than a theory of operation.  No BOM. 

https://github.com/CSSALTlab/Open_Source_Ventilator