Can I use Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries in my DMMs?

[tsman]

EEVBlogg 121GW; Couple of weeks

You need to be careful using Lithium batteries in the 121GW. "Fresh Lithium cells produce an overvoltage on the reference on both diode and ohms ranges. Don't use fresh Lithiums and these ranges."

[wraper]

"Ready to use" = LSD. They are made in Japan. And the only company in Japan making LSD NiMH is Fujitsu. Specs are exactly the same. Tests show they perform exactly the same.

[PTR_1275]

Coincidently I am running some ikea ladda batteries through testing now

When charged straight from the packet they all took ~700mAh

I did a discharge on them at 1A and they were (4 batteries, not 4 cycle tests)
2436mAh
2399mAh
2428mAh
2422mAh

They’re on charge now, will see how much current they take and update it on here.

[Terry01]

EEVBlogg 121GW; Couple of weeks

You need to be careful using Lithium batteries in the 121GW. "Fresh Lithium cells produce an overvoltage on the reference on both diode and ohms ranges. Don't use fresh Lithiums and these ranges."

The fresh lithium will be coming out it before I get shot of it, i'm sure it was Duracell that came with it so they will go in it, still decent batteries. 

[james_s]

I use LSD NiMH batteries in my meters, never had one leak, they hold their charge for years, they're easily recharged when they get run down, and they're about the same price as those expensive lithium cells.

[Terry01]

I get 12 x AA lithium for £10. My charger for my 18650's can charge AA's too if I buy them. I'm still kinda newish to electronics and got lithium as people on here were saying at the time lithium were best to put in my 289 so I just filled all my meters then and since with them.
For £10 that gives me two fills for my 289. If i feel they aren't lasting well enough i may change them but so far i am happy with lithium so we'll see when they run down.

[james_s]

It seems the lithium AA's are cheaper than they were the last time I bought some. I have them in the emergency flashlights I keep in my cars, and I used to have a wireless weather station where I used them in the outdoor unit. Otherwise I've gone fully to LSD NiMH in everything, I no longer buy disposable batteries.

[Terry01]

It seems the lithium AA's are cheaper than they were the last time I bought some. I have them in the emergency flashlights I keep in my cars, and I used to have a wireless weather station where I used them in the outdoor unit. Otherwise I've gone fully to LSD NiMH in everything, I no longer buy disposable batteries.

I'll check those out for sure as an alternative to the lithium if I feel the lithium are not performing well. Better tech or saving a few quids is always a good thing. Even the 9v lithium are priced reasonable too, I can't mind exactly how much but can remember when I bought the last lot they were ok.

[rdl]

Seems to me a waste to use Lithium primary batteries in anything that gets regular use, more expensive but don't really last much longer. I would only use them if the long storage life is needed. All my devices are using various brands of LSD NiMH (Fujitsu, Energizers, etc.). For 9 volt I've found the Lithium-ion types are a good replacement for alkaline, 9 volt NiMH just don't have enough capacity. I use EBL brand, you can get two with the charger for under $15 on ebay. Mine are going on 2 years old and still working fine.

[FrankE]

I just checked RS-online where I got the Eneloop Pro "AA". They don't do them in 9V. There are 6 x different 9V NiMH listed but their mAh ratings are generally very poor with one as low as 150mAh.
The best is Ansmann MaxE 300mAh NiMH but at nearly $35??

https://au.rs-online.com/web/p/9-volt-rechargeable-batteries/7033524/

I use iPowerUS 9V 520mAh Li-Pos in my meters that take 9V batteries and can't recommend them enough. They are used widely in broadcast, film and theatre, hence I got mine 10 years ago from a sound equipment distributor. They are still going strong.

They were dear but for their longevity

So I don't damage them or other types of cells by frequent overdischarge I do a weekly check and charge if necessary of all battery equipment every Friday and have equipment listed on an Outlook reminder so I don't miss any equipment. There's no batteries running out on me when I most need them on my watch.
It helps to keep on top of things. (my quality and reliability engineering background coming through)

The Ansmann 9V and cylindricals (non LSD) failed too frequently.

iPowerUS now do 700mAh 9V batteries:

https://www.ipowerus.com/products/9v-700mah-li-polymer-rechargeable-battery/

They need a LiPo charger
https://www.ipowerus.com/products/9v-battery-fast-smart-charger/

Dear but economical in the long run.

I haven't used a primary cell in years.

[james_s]

That seems like a lot of work. I use $5 NiMH 8.4V batteries in my 9V gear and pop them on the charger and swap in a fresh one when I get a low battery warning. No charging schedule or weekly messing around. They seem to hold up reasonably well too, my oldest still in service is one I got from Harbor Freight about 6 years ago when the LSD types first appeared in a 9V form factor.

[David Hess]

Lithium AA cells are only advantageous in high drain applications.  At the low currents that a multimeter draws, say 10 milliamps, lithium cells only have about a 20% capacity advantage.  This data was extrapolated from Energizer datasheets and Amazon prices.

Lithium AA   3500mAH@10mA   $1.20   350H   292H/$
Alkaline AA   3000mAH@10mA   $0.60   300H   500H/$

So per hour of operating time, the lithium cells cost almost twice as much and I came to the same conclusion a couple years ago for my handheld GPS which operates for 48+ hours on two AA cells.  But lithium cells do not leak (1) and for many users the cost will be insignificant.

Incidentally, I estimated the current draw number from a couple of automatic ranging handheld multimeters which could operate for about 200 hours from an alkaline 9 volt battery.  In the past, manual ranging meters could operate for ten times this long (yes, 2000 hours!) under similar conditions and I heard many complaints about the much shorter operating time of automatic ranging meters when they were introduced.  Comparable modern manual ranging meters are down to 150 to 500 hours, so much for progress.  But this explains why manufacturers are so aggressive about automatic power off.

(1) They said alkaline cells did not leak when they first came out yet now they do so I am dubious about this claim for lithium cells.  Why would I believe anything that battery manufacturers say?

[rsjsouza]

I have been using Lithium batteries on my U1282A which takes AA batteries and is a lower consumption meter - I am terrified of leakage, especially on such expensive meter. My U1273A also gets the AAA lithium now, but it is a much more power hungry meter.

For all the other meters that use 9V I use the cheaper alkalines anyways, as it takes much longer for them to catastrophically leak.

[zitt]

Lithium AA cells are only advantageous in high drain applications.
...
But lithium cells do not leak (1) and for many users the cost will be insignificant.

Exactly why I'm moving to almost exclusively Lithium for my Pinball machines.
Simply put; the china manufacturered duracells and Energizers are crap.
The leak ALL THE TIME even before their "expire" date.

I just don't trust any brand of AA alkaline batteries any more. Too much risk.

[Bratster]

Lithium AA cells are only advantageous in high drain applications.
...
But lithium cells do not leak (1) and for many users the cost will be insignificant.

Exactly why I'm moving to almost exclusively Lithium for my Pinball machines.
Simply put; the china manufacturered duracells and Energizers are crap.
The leak ALL THE TIME even before their "expire" date.

I just don't trust any brand of AA alkaline batteries any more. Too much risk.

Same here.

Can't stand the risk of Leaky batteries.

Although unfortunately the eevblog 121gw meter can be damaged by using the lithiums (to high voltage when new) so I had to go with rechargeables for that.

Sent from my Fi Moto x4 using Tapatalk

[james_s]

I've never had an Eneloop leak, the oldest ones I have are pushing on 10 years old. With just two sets you can always have a set in whatever gear you want, and another set fresh off the charger ready to swap.

[David Hess]

I have had NiCd and standard NiMH cells leak through their safety in vents at the end of their life but it was not nearly as destructive as the leakage from an alkaline-ZnMO2 cell.  None of my Eneloop cells have leaked.

[Per Hansson]

I also have a FLuke 87V so lithium OK in that. I assume my Fluke 179 is similar to your 177 so lithium should be OK in that too. My Fluke 28ii is functionally very similar to the 87V but uses 3 x "AA" instead of 1 x 9V so I'm unsure on that one! The 28ii was very expensive so I'm nervous about using lithium in that one! Do any of your meters use multiple 1.5V batteries?

From memory the 9V lithiums new were about 9.5 volts so not hugely over-voltage say about 5%..... but as Muttley Snickers says series will be different. The 28ii will have 5.4 volts with lithium as opposed to the 4.5 Volts of Alkaline with is 20% more!

For what it's worth I have used the Energizer Lithium AA's in my first Fluke 28II.
The reason I did it is because it had the issue that it would die in a high-drain scenario both because the backlight and buzzer used too much power which these fixed.
As it was it also had a bulging back so I sent it in and got a complete replacement for these issues.
The new meter still has the original Energizer alkalines in it, gives me a bad feeling though: I would hate for them to leak all over my meter!
Has anyone researched what sort of battery input this meter uses, i.e. what voltage range it should technically handle?

I also have a Fluke 325 clamp meter, it uses two AAA batteries and I use the Energizer lithiums in it too without problems.
One big advantage they have for me as I travel in work is the meter works fine even if it's -20°C with these batteries...

[gwhaley]

Old thread I know, but thought I'd throw this here for anybody in the future.
I think I've found that Ultimate Lithiums are not good for use in the Extech EX330. With them the resistance auto range would not lock. In fact no resistance range would lock. Swap the batteries out for some part used alkalines (~1.3v) and all seems back to normal. In fact the (rather annoying) NCV function seems to work better as well.

I originally went with the ultimate lithium as I had them sat around, and I know my meters are used little and infrequently enough that having a 10year non-leaking battery in there (well, I've never seen one leak) would have suited my 'work pattern' nicely. I'll consider picking up some more Ikea aaa LADDAs and putting those in.

At least now I might not bin the EX330, which I was seriously considering yesterday. It still has annoyances, and I wish when I got it a few years back I'd seen the Brymen recommendations ;-) I'll work myself up to getting one of those, maybe. I've lost a little bit of faith in the EX330, and if you can't trust your meter then, well, it's not really of use is it!
Annoying things about the EX330 for me then:
 - the NCV function cannot be turned off. The manual states 'works in all dial positions' - yeah, even in the *off* position. So, when you can hear the NCV buzzing away in your tool bag as something is pressing on the button, you have to wonder if the meter will still be alive when you next need it :-(
 - even though the resistance auto range now works, it is *slow*. So slow I thought it was still broken. You can visually watch it slowly walking through the ranges trying to find a match. It was taking 3-4s to lock on a 3k3 resistor. My old 2nd hand Fluke 73-ii took maybe 0.5s.

Well, I hope some of that helps somebody in the future :-)

[rsjsouza]

I am sorry to hear the Extech is not very fast and has been causing grief with the batteries - this indicates the design does not have a voltage regulator on the bat+ line.

Anyways, the 3-4s autorange can happen even in modern meters (Dave's 121GW and Keysight U1282A are infamous for that) and even with some of the cheapest meters around. That said, did you open your meter to see if the input jacks have some residue or other issues that could be delaying the autorange? Extechs are famous for quality control problems, as this thread indicates.

I don't know when you bought your Extech nor what you use it for, but the marketplace nowadays is quite different, especially if you do not need the safety remarks. Even if you do, a Brymen BM235 is quite the meter and can be had for a much more reasonable price than the older Extechs.

Anyways, good luck!

[mindcrime]

To add one more slightly related anecdote that might be vaguely relevant... I don't know about the multimeter case, but I *have* seen the Lithium batteries cause problems in other devices (TI calculators to be specific), apparently due to the slightly higher voltage.  My old TI-85 and TI-86 calculators don't tolerate that very well and if you load them with Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries the screens run super dark to the point that they are all but unusable. Freaked me out the first time I put some of those in one, as I thought my prized calculator (I have a sentimental attachment to my TI-85 in particular) has croaked.  But as soon as I went back to non-lithium AA batteries the calculator(s) went back to normal.

Anyway... take that for what it's worth. I'd guess there's at least an outside chance that some DMM's, maybe older ones in particular, might have some slight issues with the Lithium batteries.

[wizard69]

Hi all.
I have googled and can't find a definitive answer to this.
I have various DMMs and measuring devices which use "AAA", "AA" or "9V" batteries Alkaline batteries. These devices are all only used occasionally and I want to replace the Alkaline batteries with Lithium (1.5V non-rechargable) ones to get better shelf life but mainly to avoid any battery discharge through lack of use.
My Fluke 28ii uses 3 x "AA". The rear battery hatch and user manual specifically state only to be replaced with Alkaline equivalents and I quote "MSHA approved for use with three Energizer P/N E91 or three Duracell P/N MN1500 1.5 volt, “AA” alkaline batteries only." My 87V uses 1 x 9V but just says Neda 1604 or 6LR61 but doesn't specify must be Alkaline?
Some online info says using Lithium batteries might harm some devices but I cannot understand why?
I mean Lithium have a better shelf life, better mAh capacity but are still 1.5V right?
I'm happy to pay the extra expense for the Lithium for the reasons stated but don't wanna ruin my DMMs in doing so!
Thanks in advance for any advice!
Cheers

I highlighted an important sentence above, MSHA (Mine Safety and Health Administration) is a regulatory agency for the mining industry and as such the only approved way to use that meter in the mining industry is to use the batteries specified.   To put it another way it has been validated to what ever regs the MSHA has to be suitable for those hazardous locations.   If anything else where to be use then there would be a violation.

It should be noted that this says nothing about what can be used in the meter.   Most of use would not consider brand in the past when it came to Alkaline batteries.   These days, with the drop in quality, most of us have looked to solutions other than Alkaline batteries.

In that regard I've made an investment in Panasonic NiMH batteries and Energizer Lithium batteries.   I use the rechargeables in many things including multimeters with great success.   I use many of the Energizer Lithium batteries in flashlights, especially those in automobiles with the hope of better long term storage and better cold weather performance.   So far I've been happy that nothing has been corroded to death due to an Alkaline.   Generally I see rechargeables as a better solution for instruments.   

[FrankE]

I've never had an Eneloop leak, the oldest ones I have are pushing on 10 years old. With just two sets you can always have a set in whatever gear you want, and another set fresh off the charger ready to swap.

I've never had an eneloop leak and only one has failed of about 80 I've used from buying my first packs about 2009.
Eneloops are fine for meters. For the ones that need frequent battery changes just have a spare set in a battery case in the meter case if one can't be without the meter for the time it takes a set to charge.
I only have a swap set for my FLUKE 289 because that takes 6 AAs and my Maha  charger only has 4 ports and by the time I charge 4 at up to 90 minutes then the other 2 that could  be 3 hours and a flat supercap.
No need for the blacks which have fewer charge cycles

[asupsp700]

I'll raise the topic. I have Fluke 87V. I want to try a lithium power supply. Here is one http://www.pkcell.net/?Li-MnO2-Battery/CR9V.html
What do you think is a good company? Has anyone installed a battery like this?