Author Topic: 60Hz induction heating help  (Read 2265 times)

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Offline bill_cTopic starter

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60Hz induction heating help
« on: September 08, 2020, 02:25:18 pm »
I want to use induction to heat a steel pipe that has a steel bar inside.  I want to keep this as simple as possible, like just fuse, wire, and a relay.  This will only be used for about 10 minutes a day at startup so I'm not worried about high efficiency as long as I don't damage the wire.  I will be using a thermocouple or RTD to measure and control the temperature.
I did a test, wire got warm but you could still hold your hand on it, pipe got hot enough in a reasonable time (about 300F+ in about 15 minutes), here is the setup:
1" steel pipe (1" ID, 1.3" OD), 25" long with steel bar inside (actually 40" long but I don't want to heat all of it)
25V AC, 20A, 60Hz   (this adds a transformer that I would like to avoid)
About 200 turns of #12 solid THHN wire wrapped around a 2.375" OD PVC sleeve. (just because that is what I had on the shelf)
450F max temp operating of pipe, pipe will be insulated.

I want to stay with the 60Hz for simplicity but I would like to avoid a transformer if easily possible. Steel pipe size will most likely be a larger diameter (less than double) and or a longer length in final design. I will use proper magnet wire and hope to keep it outside the insulation that is around the pipe.
Questions:
1.  Would it be possible to use a different size wire and more wraps to be able to run this with 120V or 240V AC instead?  If so what would be best or how do I calculate this?
2.  If the 120/240V is not possible, then would it be possible to make this more efficient with a different wire size or turns ratio?
3.  Does the diameter of the coil make much difference?
4.  Would a thicker wall pipe help or not?
5.  Splitting this into 2x 12" coils would be nice, but how would that change the answers to 1 and 2 above?
6.  If switching this with SSR, should I use zero crossing or random since this is kinda like a transformer with a shorted secondary?
7.  Is there something else I am missing here?

Thanks.
 

Offline Vovk_Z

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Re: 60Hz induction heating help
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2020, 02:59:25 pm »
We use high frequencies (at least tens of kiloherz and higher) because of a strong reason. It is hard to make strong enough Eddie currents at 60 Hz. But if your setup works - then ok.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 03:01:51 pm by Vovk_Z »
 

Offline ejeffrey

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Re: 60Hz induction heating help
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2020, 04:20:29 pm »
Induction heating of steel is much easier because of the high permeability and hysteresis so 60 Hz can work.  For non-magnetic materials you really want higher frequency.

If you are happy with your performance but would rather avoid the transformer then you can just use more turns.  For a given magnetic flux there is a constant volts/turn -- so to increase the working voltage 5x you need 5x the number of turns to about 1000.  The current will drop by the same ~5x so you can reduce the wire to ~AWG18 to keep approximately the same restive losses.  This is assuming you do the winding over the same length.  You will need more winding layers to get equivalent performance.
 

Offline IanB

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Re: 60Hz induction heating help
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2020, 04:48:35 pm »
Out of curiosity, if the AC were rectified it would double the frequency with the loss of a sinusoidal waveform. Would this make induction heating more or less effective than with the original AC?
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: 60Hz induction heating help
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2020, 07:06:12 pm »
Out of curiosity, if the AC were rectified it would double the frequency with the loss of a sinusoidal waveform. Would this make induction heating more or less effective than with the original AC?

Less, because you have a DC component, and it can't go nowhere, you have to sink it through a resistance.  You get doubled AC and harmonics, with all the efficiency of a "class A" amplifier.

In principle you can tap it off with a nice big filter choke, and run a grid-tie inverter to return it to the mains... but, y'know? :)

Tim
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 

Offline bill_cTopic starter

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Re: 60Hz induction heating help
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2020, 12:44:35 pm »
Thanks guys, going to give it a try with 240V since the machine is wired for 3 phase 240V and doesn't have a neutral conductor from breaker panel (should have checked that first). will try ~1900 turns of #20 wire.  If this was more demanding, I would go for the higher frequency, but this meets all my needs.  It may be a month or 10 before I get to a complete working prototype of the machine, will post results then. 
Any input on which switching is better for less noise here, zero crossing or random?

 


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