I don't know why you would expect open source to be cheap.
A well funded manufacturer may produce things in millions, and cost per piece will be a fraction of the production of a single item. The price of the item on the market is determined by supply and demand. Most of what you pay for commercial things is to cover sales and management. Production is a smaller portion, R&D is even less. The company's profit may be a tiny fraction of the cost, may even be negative.
With open source you get free R&D, no sales, no management, no profit to anyone. All you need to pay for is production (but in small quantities).
How's that even possible to compare the two?
Open source anything should either be very inexpensive or free.
Otherwise there is no reason for it it to exist.
Otherwise it just that some first world hipster wants me to pay him to have a hobby, that nobody will benefit from except him...
And companies that are manufacturing stuff at prices nobody else is stupid enough to pay for.
Simple as that.
That is why Open Source software is possible and can be beneficial to humanity. Many nice people are using their free time to make software that is free to legally install and use to accomplish something they wouldn't be able to afford otherwise. All this human time (engineer hours) is donated by kind people, or even companies (when it helps them or makes them look good or also sometimes purely as goodwill). End users get a usable product (sometimes as good as paid one, or if not as good, good enough for many purposes, aka better than nothing.) and it all works because price of manufacturing copies (replication and distribution) in software is very low. So R&D donated, manufacturing almost free. And it works because it is hell of a deal for the money.
Software people don't like it when someone say it, but software is easy.. No, wait, not fair. It is very hard to make and make right and it not easy. But it is more straightforward to test and easier to fix.
You just apply patch and problem is gone. If after a year, developers realize architecture is wrong, the can (and they do) make a new major release. You download and upgrade. Life goes on.
And that is why Open something in hardware doesn't work. Hardware mistakes cannot be patched from online update. PCB's need to be respined. Components on bad one cannot be reused.
And once it is made to work nicely, you cannot add 2 more channels just like that. Pretty much you have to start from beginning. Than EMC. Even if you don't care if you radiate like crazy, you have to make it resilient to outside EMC. Otherwise it will be unreliable and won't work properly... Measurement instrument will inject crap into signal you're measuring, all kinds of spurs... That won't be properly characterized and documented so you can expect them in results you you know it's not DUT.....
On Open something hardware, only firmware is open, and that has it's limitations, because embedded processors have limited resources... So you can fix some problems, even redesign few little things but major new release means new PCB and parts for 1000 USD. Old one is electronic waste.
All of the Open Something hardware that exist and is somewhat useful has fixed hardware that is much cheaper than commercial counterparts, and only Open part is software (firmware and PC part).
And many time hardware is cheaper because it has hobby grade specifications, that are great for hobby and education. Great example are many SDR modules out there.
And they are great, because there are tens of thousands people in the world that are given opportunity to learn about SDR on something they can afford.
Like James said, if it is not much cheaper that real thing,it shouldn't exist. Otherwise we are all simply financing some hipster to have a hobby. No, thanks.
Well, it is a good scope, with its price perhaps on the high price. But after all it is an open source project, and I think one can make if for around $300, sourcing some parts from Chine (PCB and some components).
Some may say that the scope is a bit limited, but without this project, there wouldn't be a decent started DIY scope at all. Many DIY projects involving scopes just don't cut it for me (some are not even projects, while others are laughable attempts). This one works as intended, looks professional and the software runs great. I tested the software part, BTW.
What more do you expect?
Well, it is a good scope, with its price perhaps on the high price. But after all it is an open source project, and I think one can make if for around $300, sourcing some parts from Chine (PCB and some components).
Some may say that the scope is a bit limited, but without this project, there wouldn't be a decent started DIY scope at all. Many DIY projects involving scopes just don't cut it for me (some are not even projects, while others are laughable attempts). This one works as intended, looks professional and the software runs great. I tested the software part, BTW.
What more do you expect?
No you can't make it for 300 USD, because simple hobbyist cannot solder BGA, and parts are very expensive.
And saying it "works as intended, looks professional and the software runs great. I tested the software part, BTW." means nothing.
It is not a open software, it is a scope.
Go back and read what i wrote, again and again until you get it.
And then, if you already didn't, go and buy one from the crowdfunding campaign, with your own money.
Just so you are not a bigot, gallantly trumpeting virtues of open source scope to absolute beginners and other people that doesn't know better, and giving them advice to spend their only hard earned 650 USD on something that is just a promise right now.
OP asked a question to a forum. Is this a good deal for the money and effort ? No it isn't.
At this point it doesn't even exist. Few days ago they already started extending goals...
So no, if the question is "Is this a good deal?". It's not, not even close. If it exists in a year, and if it works, then, than we will see..
As for Open source hardware, it's you that has it wrong. If it costs a lot it's not free.
It's not Stalin or Hitler that forbids many users to have some piece of T&M equipment.
Mostly it's the price that denies them that "freedom".
So, yeah, as in "free speech" we can talk until next year how great it is that we are "allowed" (free) to be able to get most sophisticated scopes from Keysight, R&S, etc etc...
But because of the price not many people can. They just can't have it, period.
So now we have this thing. It is not even made (it doesn't exist yet), it is as expensive as pro made equipment that does work, it has mediocre specs (does many things but none really well), and those specs are still just wishful thinking because it yet has to verified it really does achieve those specs(or works at all), but it's awesome because they published schematics.
Really?
This is engineering forum. I don't believe in Open Gods (R), or any kind of cults.
All I say is based on facts.
I don't accept "but it is different because Open something....". It's not.
What you do with your own money is your problem.
Giving advice to other people based on your religious/political/activist beliefs is a dick move.
Open Source is and activist/political movement, and not based on real life facts most of the time, apparently.
Whoever wants to do it, good luck, I'm happy for them. But vice versa, people that think differently have a FREEDOM to see things differently.
Best regards,
Sinisa
Thanks for showing me that I've understood you clearly.
Anyway, I only read half of your... and, and then
. Why bother? You come here talking about politics in an electronics forum. And then you state that if it not free it shouldn't exist (yeah, like you were a dictator, or entitled to be one). I'll just ignore you from now on. Good riddance!
P.S.: If you have read the forum, you could get the idea that someone here has already built the first version of this scope for $239.38 . Your argument doesn't stick (unless all you really want is for someone to buy you all the parts for free - and, of course you do).
Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço
Thanks for reminder. Luckily for the open source community your worldview even as continue to be a prevalent is not the one and only.
My compliments to David and Dejan for doing a great job. This project is a great contribution to people who is willing to learn something about T&M solutions and push boundaries of DIY/makers solutions to the next level. I do believe that forthcoming crowdfunding campaign will be successful. For other, possibly some company from your neighborhood will start to clone it massively and push the price down. We'll see, that could be a great sign that Scopefun is recognized and attractive and can give Scopefun team a good reason to move it forward.
If the parts are around 200 (for low volume) and assembly brings it up to 250 then you can charge 300 MAYBE.
If the parts are around 200 (for low volume) and assembly brings it up to 250 then you can charge 300 MAYBE.
That's totally unrealistic. If you already designed a product, you probably know that something with a $200 BOM cost is more likely to cost $1000 than $300...