XC3S500E Dev board

[BytesGuy]

Hi all,

I have found the following development board quite cheap on ebay and wonder if anyone has any experience with it at all:

eBay auction: #251192875961

Seems like a good price with lots of modules bundled in, plus all the pins are accessible on the breakout board. They also do additional modules very cheap.

I did comp sci at uni and one of the optional modules I took was all about FPGAs. I found it really interesting and thought it would be cool to start designing some things, there is only so much you can do with stuff on breadboards after all. The board we used was a Spartan 3E starter board (http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,400,792&Prod=S3EBOARD) so I am familiar with Xilinx, ISE etc. I'd be doing VHDL as that is what I know

Downside is I need to find a JTAG programmer, anyone know of a cheap one? Or perhaps someone has another suggestion for a (cheap!) dev board.

Cheers 

[legacy]

if I were you I would not buy such a chinese boards.
I got a lot of failures and uncommon behavior and miss working from such a low-prices chinese boards.

edit:
btw, i can give you positive feedback about chinese usb-jtag bought at $50.

[gocemk]

I have the exact same board and the JTAG USB programmer from the same seller (waveshare):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Platform-Cable-USB-XILINX-FPGA-CPLD-JTAG-DLC9G-in-circuit-Debugger-Programmer-/261127458640?

The board comes with Xilinx ISE 12.2 and with examples for both Verilog and VHDL, but i couldn't get all the examples up and running.
As you can expect, the documentation is pretty scarce, but unless you are total beginner in embedded and FPGA stuff, it's not all that bad and you can have the system (Board + JTAG) up and running in a very short time.

But be carefull, the price of the board + JTAG programmer + customs came very close to the price of the Digilent Basys 2 board which is a much better choice for beginners because there is a LOT more support for it online and some of the FPGA books use the exact same board for their examples.

[miguelvp]

Their non ebay website is:

http://www.wvshare.com

Your board will be here (at the same price)
http://www.wvshare.com/column/XILINX_DevelopmentBoard.htm

I did order some stuff and they shipped it on May first but I decide to use their air mail instead of fedex etc because of the cost.

I don't have any of their FPGA's since I usually get those from the Altera shop (not a Xilinx guy Yet). But I loved their extra modules so I bought 9 of their things for about $50 including a 320x240 lcd with resistive touch screen.

Yeah their examples are not great, but they have full datasheets and schematics and that's pretty much all you need.

I can't give a thumbs up or down yet until I get my stuff. But one thing is that their cores are a bit old, so you might as well get them from:
http://www.knjn.com/ from http://www.fpga4fun.com/
they do have an EU store as well: http://www.knjn.com/eu/ but it's pretty bare and their cores are old too.

The cool thing about fpga4fun and knjn is that they have lot's of cool samples (but I haven't purchased from them yet)

In any event, even if waveshare has some senseless sample code, that is all you need but the datasheets and schematics are always helpful.

When I get my peripherals from waveshare (coming on the slowest boat from China) I'll post about the quality.

This is what I got from them:

http://www.wvshare.com/product/OV9655-Camera-Board.htm
http://www.wvshare.com/product/8-SEG-LED-Board.htm
http://www.wvshare.com/product/LCD1602-3.3V-blue.htm
http://www.wvshare.com/product/2.2inch-320x240-Touch-LCD-A.htm
http://www.wvshare.com/product/Analog-Test-Board.htm
http://www.wvshare.com/product/74LVC8T245-Board.htm
http://www.wvshare.com/product/5-IO-Keypad.htm
http://www.wvshare.com/product/PCF8563-RTC-Board.htm
http://www.wvshare.com/product/VGA-PS2-Board.htm

RTC doesn't come with battery (lithium)
VGA PS2 board is really an R2R ladder 3 bits per color for a total of 512 colors.

Total a bit over $50

BTW, after that I got something else from wavengineer that will do better for the VGA output

http://www.wayengineer.com/digiasic-fpga-adv7125adv7123-vga-board-p-160.html

But it's on an even slower boat from HK

I did come across some european site with all of these but I can't find the link anymore.

Nevermind, here it was Poland in this link:
http://www.wvshare.com/help/contact.htm

If this thread is still alive (or me for that matter) when I get the stuff I'll reply to this thread.

[hamster_nz]

But be carefull, the price of the board + JTAG programmer + customs came very close to the price of the Digilent Basys 2 board which is a much better choice for beginners because there is a LOT more support for it online and some of the FPGA books use the exact same board for their examples.

Caution - the Osc on the Basys2 is not an XTAL, and wanders around like a drunk in a forest at night - it has a jitter of about 1%. This makes it impossible to use the VGA port for anything - modern LCD monitors can't lock onto the signals. You can plug in a DIP OSC module, but the part number in the reference manual is (was?) wrong - it was a SMT part.

My first FPGA board was a Digilent Nexys2, and it was (and still is) an awesome board - RAM, Flash, lots more I/O, much faster host interface.

If you get a Nexys2 then also consider adding the FX/2 breadboard (http://digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?Prod=FX2BB). It is well worth the extra $40 to be able to plug in whatever you like on a breadboard.

[BytesGuy]

I have the exact same board and the JTAG USB programmer from the same seller (waveshare):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Platform-Cable-USB-XILINX-FPGA-CPLD-JTAG-DLC9G-in-circuit-Debugger-Programmer-/261127458640?

The board comes with Xilinx ISE 12.2 and with examples for both Verilog and VHDL, but i couldn't get all the examples up and running.
As you can expect, the documentation is pretty scarce, but unless you are total beginner in embedded and FPGA stuff, it's not all that bad and you can have the system (Board + JTAG) up and running in a very short time.

But be carefull, the price of the board + JTAG programmer + customs came very close to the price of the Digilent Basys 2 board which is a much better choice for beginners because there is a LOT more support for it online and some of the FPGA books use the exact same board for their examples.

Yeah, I didn't think to include the customs fees. Even with it, if it gets charged, it isn't too bad for the price considering all the modules. How is the construction of the boards?

Their non ebay website is:

http://www.wvshare.com

Your board will be here (at the same price)
http://www.wvshare.com/column/XILINX_DevelopmentBoard.htm

I did order some stuff and they shipped it on May first but I decide to use their air mail instead of fedex etc because of the cost.

I don't have any of their FPGA's since I usually get those from the Altera shop (not a Xilinx guy Yet). But I loved their extra modules so I bought 9 of their things for about $50 including a 320x240 lcd with resistive touch screen.

Yeah their examples are not great, but they have full datasheets and schematics and that's pretty much all you need.

I can't give a thumbs up or down yet until I get my stuff. But one thing is that their cores are a bit old, so you might as well get them from:
http://www.knjn.com/ from http://www.fpga4fun.com/
they do have an EU store as well: http://www.knjn.com/eu/ but it's pretty bare and their cores are old too.

The cool thing about fpga4fun and knjn is that they have lot's of cool samples (but I haven't purchased from them yet)

In any event, even if waveshare has some senseless sample code, that is all you need but the datasheets and schematics are always helpful.

When I get my peripherals from waveshare (coming on the slowest boat from China) I'll post about the quality.

This is what I got from them:

http://www.wvshare.com/product/OV9655-Camera-Board.htm
http://www.wvshare.com/product/8-SEG-LED-Board.htm
http://www.wvshare.com/product/LCD1602-3.3V-blue.htm
http://www.wvshare.com/product/2.2inch-320x240-Touch-LCD-A.htm
http://www.wvshare.com/product/Analog-Test-Board.htm
http://www.wvshare.com/product/74LVC8T245-Board.htm
http://www.wvshare.com/product/5-IO-Keypad.htm
http://www.wvshare.com/product/PCF8563-RTC-Board.htm
http://www.wvshare.com/product/VGA-PS2-Board.htm

RTC doesn't come with battery (lithium)
VGA PS2 board is really an R2R ladder 3 bits per color for a total of 512 colors.

Total a bit over $50

BTW, after that I got something else from wavengineer that will do better for the VGA output

http://www.wayengineer.com/digiasic-fpga-adv7125adv7123-vga-board-p-160.html

But it's on an even slower boat from HK

I did come across some european site with all of these but I can't find the link anymore.

Nevermind, here it was Poland in this link:
http://www.wvshare.com/help/contact.htm

If this thread is still alive (or me for that matter) when I get the stuff I'll reply to this thread.

Yeah, I can imagine the code is a bit iffy, but like you said if they give the datasheets that's all you need. I do like the modules and the fact the "core" board is a breakout board, so you can use it with other things. I'll have a look at the polish site, though its probably going to be the same as if I have to pay customs. How much did the postage fee come to if you don't mind me asking? On ebay they do free postage, the prices seem the same for the fpga boards, but the modules I looked at where a bit more expensive.

[miguelvp]

Yeah, I can imagine the code is a bit iffy, but like you said if they give the datasheets that's all you need. I do like the modules and the fact the "core" board is a breakout board, so you can use it with other things. I'll have a look at the polish site, though its probably going to be the same as if I have to pay customs. How much did the postage fee come to if you don't mind me asking? On ebay they do free postage, the prices seem the same for the fpga boards, but the modules I looked at where a bit more expensive.

Actually I take it back on the code, but it's all over the place as in what is implemented. Some for different MCUs, some FPGAs, but some are documented quite well and you can download everything before the purchase.

You don't need an email account to create an account, so you have to set the settings for e-mail and address later.
You place the order and then they send a message via the website (an e-mail notification also was sent to my e-mail but not all of their e-mail responses made it, some landed in the junk folder some just didn't show) So you have to rely on the messaging on their site.

So the ordering was a bit weird to say the least. Once they process the order (by a person, not automated) they send you a message saying the order is ready and how much your total is and please replay via the website when it's paid.

I chose paypal and replied with the confirmation number. They acknowledge the receipt and shipped it.

It's a slow kind of old fashion way to do business.

Not sure how much the shipping is, I choose air mail and they didn't charge me for it, although their site has rates for all your options (including fedex, ems, ups, dhl) So I might be charged at delivery? not sure.

The other one from Hong Kong was $7 shipping so i'm not worried. They both send me tracking numbers that I can track (the slow progress) via usps tracking, China post tracking as well, or Hong Kong tracking on the 2nd order (they are not even on the boat yet).

You might be better using ebay, but I'll give feedback when I get it (half a month or less?) 

[BytesGuy]

Yeah, I can imagine the code is a bit iffy, but like you said if they give the datasheets that's all you need. I do like the modules and the fact the "core" board is a breakout board, so you can use it with other things. I'll have a look at the polish site, though its probably going to be the same as if I have to pay customs. How much did the postage fee come to if you don't mind me asking? On ebay they do free postage, the prices seem the same for the fpga boards, but the modules I looked at where a bit more expensive.

Actually I take it back on the code, but it's all over the place as in what is implemented. Some for different MCUs, some FPGAs, but some are documented quite well and you can download everything before the purchase.

You don't need an email account to create an account, so you have to set the settings for e-mail and address later.
You place the order and then they send a message via the website (an e-mail notification also was sent to my e-mail but not all of their e-mail responses made it, some landed in the junk folder some just didn't show) So you have to rely on the messaging on their site.

So the ordering was a bit weird to say the least. Once they process the order (by a person, not automated) they send you a message saying the order is ready and how much your total is and please replay via the website when it's paid.

I chose paypal and replied with the confirmation number. They acknowledge the receipt and shipped it.

It's a slow kind of old fashion way to do business.

Not sure how much the shipping is, I choose air mail and they didn't charge me for it, although their site has rates for all your options (including fedex, ems, ups, dhl) So I might be charged at delivery? not sure.

The other one from Hong Kong was $7 shipping so i'm not worried. They both send me tracking numbers that I can track (the slow progress) via usps tracking, China post tracking as well, or Hong Kong tracking on the 2nd order (they are not even on the boat yet).

You might be better using ebay, but I'll give feedback when I get it (half a month or less?) 

I see, well any code is good enough for this price in my opinion.

Tried to order myself from their site and it seemed a but of a strange setup like you say, I think I will just use ebay. I'll probably order the modules I want separately at a later date as they will be under the £15 import limit for vat individually  Never been hit by a customs charge so far, but I can imagine this will be, wouldn't be so bad if royal mail didn't charge £8 for the privilege!

Including possible fees, the total for the programmer and board is about £100, pretty happy with that so going to take a chance on it. I will post feedback as well when I get it, in case anyone else is interested.

[gocemk]

How much did the postage fee come to if you don't mind me asking?

The costs for customs + tax fees was ~30 euros. I made the mistake of ordering the board + programmer together instead separately. If i did that, they would have arrived at different times depending on which i ordered first, but i would have avoided the extra cost for customs (in my country they charge customs fees if the package + shipping costs more than 45 euros). As for the construction of the board, it seems OK. I don't have all the modules because if i need them in the future i can always order them. I have the 2 displays which are pretty much standard, 2x16 with HD44780 controller and the 128x64 with the ST7920 controller. So far i have only two complaints about the construction of the board:

1. Power supply connector - Instead of standard USB - mini USB, the board comes with USB - banana power plug, which is not a huge problem, but can be a potential PITA in case you lose/break the original cable. The on/off switch is a huge  IMO, though. (see attached pictures)

2. The pin count on the FPGA board is not the same with the pin count on the female headers on the base board. (see pictures) Because of this, 4 pins are left floating (2 from each side). Maybe this is the case only with my board, maybe they fixed the problem on newer ones. I don't know, but it doesn't hurt to ask before ordering.

That's it so far. I haven't used the board for bigger projects until now, so i don't know if anything else is "lurking inside". Right now i am working on a stepper motor control project with the board, so i'll post here if i run in some other potential problems with it.

Now, here are some hi-res photos of it:

[BytesGuy]

Thank you for the images and info! 

It's a bit odd 4 pins are left in limbo like that and the power connector is a bit strange. Other than that it seems like a decent board for the price. It's on my short list for sure.

I have just found this board http://www.sainsmart.com/altera-cyclone-sopc-ep2c8q208c8n-chip-development-board-with-fpga-sdram-adc-2-4-tft-lcd-usb-blaster.html

I can get it within the UK for about £105, no worries about importing. It is a Cyclone 2 though, I'm not sure how it compares to the XC3S500E.

[Dongulus]

The Cyclone II and the Spartan-3E chips in question are comparable. The Spartan-3E might be slightly better, but any amount of difference seems inconsequential because you will probably not push the limits with either chip if your goal is some beginner hobby projects.

I would choose the Cyclone II board because everything is integrated on a single board instead of having to plug the modules together. That way, between projects your pin assignments won't need to change because you plugged in a module to a different socket.

[BytesGuy]

The Cyclone II and the Spartan-3E chips in question are comparable. The Spartan-3E might be slightly better, but any amount of difference seems inconsequential because you will probably not push the limits with either chip if your goal is some beginner hobby projects.

I would choose the Cyclone II board because everything is integrated on a single board instead of having to plug the modules together. That way, between projects your pin assignments won't need to change because you plugged in a module to a different socket.

Yeah, having things integrated has that advantage, never thought of that really. It does seem to have 70 GPIO pins available so I assume I use those for any further modules I want to add (eg, touchscreen or led matrix)? I may get it as it will avoid the hassle with china. How differnt is Altera to Xilinx? I learnt using the Spartan 3E

[Dongulus]

How differnt is Altera to Xilinx?

I learned FPGAs on Xilinx Spartan-3E and Spartan-6 dev boards but I've been working on a design for work with an Altera Cyclone III. If you're used to Xilinx ISE, you won't find anything mind-bogglingly different with Quartus. I find that I like Altera's Quartus software a little bit better because the interface and menus feel a little more intuitive and I don't get as many cryptic error messages as I do with Xilinx ISE.

[BytesGuy]

How differnt is Altera to Xilinx?

I learned FPGAs on Xilinx Spartan-3E and Spartan-6 dev boards but I've been working on a design for work with an Altera Cyclone III. If you're used to Xilinx ISE, you won't find anything mind-bogglingly different with Quartus. I find that I like Altera's Quartus software a little bit better because the interface and menus feel a little more intuitive and I don't get as many cryptic error messages as I do with Xilinx ISE.

Interesting. I might give Altera a go then. I must say, ISE was a bit of a dog to use, the 64-bit version would crash when you went to open the file browser 

Had a look round for Altera boards and found this one http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&CategoryNo=167&No=830 Looks quite good, no screen, but I'm sure that's not a major issue as it has 40 GPIO pins and an Arduino header

[miguelvp]

I have that dev kit and wrote a review about it:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/terasic-cyclone-v-gx-starter-kit-(c5g)-review

If you go with Altera, they have good free online training:
http://www.altera.com/education/training/curriculum/fpga/trn-fpga.html

That board is not really beginner friendly but it has quite a bit of stuff. So you'll get to learn a lot if you go with that one.

[BytesGuy]

I have that dev kit and wrote a review about it:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/terasic-cyclone-v-gx-starter-kit-(c5g)-review

If you go with Altera, they have good free online training:
http://www.altera.com/education/training/curriculum/fpga/trn-fpga.html

That board is not really beginner friendly but it has quite a bit of stuff. So you'll get to learn a lot if you go with that one.

Wow that's quite a lot of online training! Looks good 

I really don't mind a challenge, that's part of the fun How well does it work with arduino shields? That's quite interesting to me as there are so many shields for all kinds of things.

[miguelvp]

How well does it work with arduino shields? That's quite interesting to me as there are so many shields for all kinds of things.

I have three devices that have Arduino headers (non being an actual arduino) but didn't purchase any shields yet. I did try the ADC with a TMP36 Temperature Sensor, I think that's the only thing I connected on the header.

One thing about the header, some of the pins are shared with the 7 segment displays as I mentioned on the review.

You can create an account at terasic and download the CD (it doesn't come with the kit) and get the manual as well while you are at it.

[Bassman59]

That's not a real Xilinx dongle. It's a clone. For starters, the real Platform Cable USB (not the Platform Cable USB II) is black, and all of the real Xilinx dongles have the programming cable connectors on the top, not coming out the end.

[miguelvp]

That's not a real Xilinx dongle. It's a clone. For starters, the real Platform Cable USB (not the Platform Cable USB II) is black, and all of the real Xilinx dongles have the programming cable connectors on the top, not coming out the end.

Since it has the WaveShare logo you are right, but they are no pretending it to be the original but compatible.

http://www.wvshare.com/product/Platform-Cable-USB.htm

[gocemk]

That's not a real Xilinx dongle. It's a clone. For starters, the real Platform Cable USB (not the Platform Cable USB II) is black, and all of the real Xilinx dongles have the programming cable connectors on the top, not coming out the end.

Yes thanks, but i was already aware of that and was not trying to mislead anyone.

[Bassman59]

That's not a real Xilinx dongle. It's a clone. For starters, the real Platform Cable USB (not the Platform Cable USB II) is black, and all of the real Xilinx dongles have the programming cable connectors on the top, not coming out the end.

Since it has the WaveShare logo you are right, but they are no pretending it to be the original but compatible.

http://www.wvshare.com/product/Platform-Cable-USB.htm

I didn't notice the WaveShare logo. I was blinded by the Xilinx logo.

[miguelvp]

You don't need an email account to create an account, so you have to set the settings for e-mail and address later.
You place the order and then they send a message via the website (an e-mail notification also was sent to my e-mail but not all of their e-mail responses made it, some landed in the junk folder some just didn't show) So you have to rely on the messaging on their site.

So the ordering was a bit weird to say the least. Once they process the order (by a person, not automated) they send you a message saying the order is ready and how much your total is and please replay via the website when it's paid.

I chose paypal and replied with the confirmation number. They acknowledge the receipt and shipped it.

It's a slow kind of old fashion way to do business.

Not sure how much the shipping is, I choose air mail and they didn't charge me for it, although their site has rates for all your options (including fedex, ems, ups, dhl) So I might be charged at delivery? not sure.

The other one from Hong Kong was $7 shipping so i'm not worried. They both send me tracking numbers that I can track (the slow progress) via usps tracking, China post tracking as well, or Hong Kong tracking on the 2nd order (they are not even on the boat yet).

You might be better using ebay, but I'll give feedback when I get it (half a month or less?) 

I see, well any code is good enough for this price in my opinion.

Tried to order myself from their site and it seemed a but of a strange setup like you say, I think I will just use ebay. I'll probably order the modules I want separately at a later date as they will be under the £15 import limit for vat individually  Never been hit by a customs charge so far, but I can imagine this will be, wouldn't be so bad if royal mail didn't charge £8 for the privilege!

Including possible fees, the total for the programmer and board is about £100, pretty happy with that so going to take a chance on it. I will post feedback as well when I get it, in case anyone else is interested.

Well, I guess I was wrong on the slow boat, seems it got to Chicago today and I ordered the modules May 1st, might get it tomorrow or Monday. Not too shabby for choosing the inexpensive air mail.

I'll update on the parts when I get my hands on it, and I will find out if I have to pay for the shipping or not.

[miguelvp]

Sure enough it came in today so 9 days delivery via free air mail, all nicely packaged in sealed anti static bags like if someone actually took the parts and neatly put them to order.

Only thing is that they use saran wrap and then sealed them. I didn't peel the saran, just cut it out not to generate static while pealing it

Declared value on box was $54 and yup, they did include the battery on the RTC board  measured it and it's alive and kicking at 3.3V.

So other than it was a weird way to order, I will have no doubt using them again. Now to test all this stuff



Edit: and the 9 days included a holiday in China, when they told me that the order was ready for shipping they were apologizing that it will take an extra time, I mean I did order on their Labour Day (big deal in there) and they observe it for 3 days. So I'm impressed.

[miguelvp]

Well, after not being able to do much over the weekend (Mothers day and the wife didn't want me tinkering) I took some time tonight to test the VGA-PS2 board. Only tested the VGA part and set it for 640x480 @60Hz driven by my DE0-Nano.

http://www.wvshare.com/product/VGA-PS2-Board.htm

I wired and configured the GPIOs, so that it will correspond to the real 3 channel video DAC that is still to come.

http://www.wayengineer.com/digiasic-fpga-adv7125adv7123-vga-board-p-160.html

Forgive the Pizza Box monitor, it's a re-purposed laptop LCD screen with a controller that takes DVI and VGA capable of WUXGA (1920x1200) I will try to push it more when I get the serious 330Msps 3 channel DAC.

I did setup the pinout so it will take the full 8 bits per color, even if this R2R adapter only can use the higher 3 bits. It also generates the vga clock, blank and sync for when I get the other board, this adapter doesn't need those signals.

Next I should try to see if I can hook a mouse or a keyboard on the PS2 part of it. Maybe generate a sprite that moves around with the mouse.

So half tested 8 and 1/2 more parts to go!



Edit: Red to Green transition using Vsync as trigger. Good thing I kept my VGA to BNC's for an old monster monitor that I no longer posses. Not sure about those voltages, they seem a bit high, never mind put a 50 Ohm terminator and get 3.42 V (don't have a 75 Ohm one)