Segger J-Link EDU or J-Link clone, which one would you get?

[tlu]

I'm thinking of getting the Segger J-Link EDU for ~$60 vs the clones out there which can be as cheap as ~$10. I want to know if the clones will support everything the official one does? And what about the latest firmware? I've read that Segger is blacklisting the serial numbers so most clones will not be able to work with the latest firmware on the Segger website. For those whose have a clone, can you verify if this is true or is it a something that could be worked around?

[rsjsouza]

I really think that you are doing the right thing if you are truly considering the Segger vs the clones. Not only you support the people that put the time and the effort to architect, design, build and support the damn emulator, but the price difference is really not that large...

Not only you will always be sure it will work with all the software, have all the features and count on all the upgrades you need, but I have supported customers that purchased knockoffs (not necessarily Segger's) that were responsible for hours of debugging time (in other words: money) trying to find out what the heck was happening with the device. That and the risk of vapourizing the JTAG interface with a poor pinout (never experienced that, but heard about).

[mikeselectricstuff]

I bought a clone quite a while ago as a backup, but the latest Segger driver software refuses to work with it, I don't  know if recent clones have overcome this.
$60 is not unreasonable for a genuine product

[tinhead]

well, when a clone have "GDBFull" as feature the software will stop working. You need firmware having only "GDB". Serial number is not problem as well, there is empty version available, burn it, connect first time and program your fav. S/N. That's all.

On the other side, when i really don't need J-Link Pro features and can work with EDU version, why then buy a clone? Exact, no need for that. The question might be as well, do i need j-link? Or is maybe any other FTDI FT2232H based jtag cable good enought? And if FTDI based, do i need really to spend money for Olimex thing? Or do i need some extra (i do e.g.) features of Amontec jtag key? If no hell, then buy 10-15USD china FTDI based jtag cable.

[tlu]

As far as working with the ARM Cortex-A8, will a clone do the job? I would prefer to save alot of headaches and get the genuine Segger J-Link. At least my chances of that working straight out of the box should be much greater.

Anyone with a clone care to comment on the usability of a clone on the Cortex-A8?

[TheDirty]

First of all, I have to wonder about you using a Cortex-A8 at all.  These are usually meant for operating systems and are bootloader setup rather than JTAG debugged.  People who are working with these at a low level programming/debugging level usually aren't asking what JTAG to use.  It's just I have seen several people asking about these higher end cortex processors when they are really just in the market for Cortex-M3 or M0.

I have a clone and it works great.  The only thing you need to care about is that eventually Segger will put out a revision that will lock your clone out, or they already have.  If you stick with the firmware revision you have, you're fine.  People say there are ways to get around even this, but I haven't gone that far.

If you are getting the EDU, there is a non-commercial license that goes with this.

[tlu]

First of all, I have to wonder about you using a Cortex-A8 at all.  These are usually meant for operating systems and are bootloader setup rather than JTAG debugged.  People who are working with these at a low level programming/debugging level usually aren't asking what JTAG to use.  It's just I have seen several people asking about these higher end cortex processors when they are really just in the market for Cortex-M3 or M0.

I have a clone and it works great.  The only thing you need to care about is that eventually Segger will put out a revision that will lock your clone out, or they already have.  If you stick with the firmware revision you have, you're fine.  People say there are ways to get around even this, but I haven't gone that far.

If you are getting the EDU, there is a non-commercial license that goes with this.

Which clone do you recommend?

[EEVblog]

I'm thinking of getting the Segger J-Link EDU for ~$60 vs the clones out there which can be as cheap as ~$10

Unless you were destitute, what's an extra $50 to get the genuine one?

[mikeselectricstuff]

I have a clone and it works great.  The only thing you need to care about is that eventually Segger will put out a revision that will lock your clone out, or they already have.  If you stick with the firmware revision you have, you're fine. 

..until you need to use a newer chip that is only supported  by the latest Segger software

[M. András]

http://www.embeddedartists.com/products/lpcxpresso/lpclink2.php i just leave this here, can be programmed to be a jlink wondering about the headers if it will use all of them or to program the onboard dual core mcu

[SEGGER - Support]

Please keep in mind, that you are ignoring the license of SEGGER's software, if you use it with a clone. The license clearly states:

Licensor grants Licensee a non-exclusive and non-transferable License to use the software or parts thereof with SEGGERs J-Link hardware or authorized OEM products (Atmel SAM-ICE, Analog Devices mIDAS-Link, IAR J-Link, IAR J-Link KS) only.
The use of the licensed software to operate J-Link clones is prohibited and illegal;
The use of illegal J-Link clones with this software is a violation of US, European and other international laws reg. Copyright and IP rights and is prohibited.
Any other use of the software package is prohibited without prior written authorization from SEGGER.

Without the software no J-Link clone will work at all. Using a clone breaches the license. The license breach might be enforced by the owner of the software.

Best regards,
SEGGER Support

[ju1ce]

What is the preferred (cheapest) way to buy a J-Link EDU  in Australia?

Digikey has them for 77 AUD, Mouser for a bit more (of course, technically not in Australia).

[TheDirty]

..until you need to use a newer chip that is only supported  by the latest Segger software

Definitely possible now considering the turnover on ARM variants.

Just go with the EDU.  I have to assume you are doing non-commercial.  If you are doing commercial work the question of price wouldn't be so much of a concern.

[mikeselectricstuff]

..until you need to use a newer chip that is only supported  by the latest Segger software

Definitely possible now considering the turnover on ARM variants.

Just go with the EDU.  I have to assume you are doing non-commercial.  If you are doing commercial work the question of price wouldn't be so much of a concern.

I found that the LPC18xx under IAR EWB needed the latest Segger driver to work properly

[mikeselectricstuff]

If you are getting the EDU, there is a non-commercial license that goes with this.

Neither the Digi-key product page, nor the datasheet it links to make any mention of any license restrictions, and if you use it with, for example IAR EWB, which auto-installs the J-link software you may not see any indication of any restriction (I don't know if it pops up anything if it sees an EDU version connected).

[TheDirty]

Neither the Digi-key product page, nor the datasheet it links to make any mention of any license restrictions, and if you use it with, for example IAR EWB, which auto-installs the J-link software you may not see any indication of any restriction (I don't know if it pops up anything if it sees an EDU version connected).

I'm not certain what you are saying here.  I'm assuming you are saying that it would be okay to make a commercial product and claim you haven't seen the restriction, but I doubt that would fly.

The product page clearly states it cannot be used to develop a product.
http://www.segger.com/j-link-edu.html

[M. András]

Neither the Digi-key product page, nor the datasheet it links to make any mention of any license restrictions, and if you use it with, for example IAR EWB, which auto-installs the J-link software you may not see any indication of any restriction (I don't know if it pops up anything if it sees an EDU version connected).

I'm not certain what you are saying here.  I'm assuming you are saying that it would be okay to make a commercial product and claim you haven't seen the restriction, but I doubt that would fly.

The product page clearly states it cannot be used to develop a product.
http://www.segger.com/j-link-edu.html

i seriusly doubt anyone will know what that damn device was programmed with

[mikeselectricstuff]

Neither the Digi-key product page, nor the datasheet it links to make any mention of any license restrictions, and if you use it with, for example IAR EWB, which auto-installs the J-link software you may not see any indication of any restriction (I don't know if it pops up anything if it sees an EDU version connected).

I'm not certain what you are saying here.  I'm assuming you are saying that it would be okay to make a commercial product and claim you haven't seen the restriction, but I doubt that would fly.

The product page clearly states it cannot be used to develop a product.
http://www.segger.com/j-link-edu.html

That assumes I look at the Segger product page. If I just go to Digikey, look at the datasheet and buy it, there is no indication of any restriction on use.

[hans]

If you use it in combination with IAR, it will dialy give a notice of your license and you have to accept it everytime the J-link is accessed.
There is however, a button for 'dont show this for today'.
However, it does mean you have to acknowledge their statements.

I find their Segger website funny. If you download the software for Jlink EDU with drivers and IAR DLL's etc, it says : "I will not use the Segger J-link EDU with any illegal clones".
What? Cloned hardware is illegal? Or is the software prohibited from being used with that hardware? It doesn't make sense.

I wouldn't be too afraid of it. In the end you can always say you wrote the code and it worked first try, so never used the J-link for debugging purposes.

[rsjsouza]

That assumes I look at the Segger product page. If I just go to Digikey, look at the datasheet and buy it, there is no indication of any restriction on use.

There's almost a 100% chance the product itself has a card or End-User Agreement that says that...

I found it interesting when I first saw it as well, and my first thought was that Segger must really be suffering with clones.

What? Cloned hardware is illegal?

Yes if it uses patented IP developed by someone else and they did not distribute it freely nor authorized others to do so. I am not sure if this is applicable to non-patented software or Segger products, but I am pretty sure their End-User Agreement forbids this, which makes the "cloner" a liar at best...

All in all, I agree that verifying if the debugger was used for a product/non-product is a hard thing to track, but the non-limited Jlink is really not that prohibitive ($240 US dollars, although some countries get a hefty customs/taxes/freight).  If one plans to make money with a product designed by it, I really think this does not count too much.

I come from an era where an ICE was the price of a very decent car, then a few years later a JTAG was the price of a good used car, then we nowadays have it cheaper than a cellphone. 

[tlu]

I guess in the end, it all boils down to whether you want the support of Segger for the latest ARM support through their driver/software or not. The clones can get you by but as Mike had mentioned, it has it's limitation on the platform revision.

I'm going to shell out the $60 and get the Segger J-Link EDU after all and I'm pretty sure I will be happy with it. One a side question; besides it doing a little more than the Amontec jtagkey-tiny, is there any real advantage over the jtagkey-tiny?

[andersm]

The J-Link supports a wider range of target voltages. The JTAGkey-Tiny has no I/O protection. If you want to work with SWD-only devices the JTAGkey-Tiny requires an external adapter (you may need a header adapter for the J-Link as well, but these are available for cheap on eBay). The J-Link is faster. On the other hand, the JTAGkey-Tiny is much better supported under OpenOCD.

[tlu]

The J-Link supports a wider range of target voltages. The JTAGkey-Tiny has no I/O protection. If you want to work with SWD-only devices the JTAGkey-Tiny requires an external adapter (you may need a header adapter for the J-Link as well, but these are available for cheap on eBay). The J-Link is faster. On the other hand, the JTAGkey-Tiny is much better supported under OpenOCD.

Hi andersm, thanks for the feedback on the JTAGkey-Tiny. OpenOCD is mucky to work with if you do not know what you are doing.

[andersm]

There's a bit of a learning curve, but well worth it just not to be bound to what vendors deign to support.

[0xdeadbeef]

Just in case that not everybody is aware of this:
http://www.embeddedartists.com/products/lpcxpresso/lpclink2.php
http://www.nxp.com/demoboard/OM13054.html

Can be used as Redlink for LPCXpresso, CMSIS-DAP or Segger J-Link. I understand that J-Link is NXP only, not so sure about the other two modes. I would assume at least the CMSIS-DAP mode should work with all ARM devices. Unfortunately, CMSIS-DAP doesn't work correctly with LPC17xx under CooCox yet, but the J-Link mode and also Redlink mode in LPCXpresso works flawlessly. A case would have been nice though.