Microchip announces PIC64 ... and it's RISC-V.

[brucehoult]

[MK14]

Is it only intended for Radiation-Hardened, Space flights, and low-Earth-Orbit projects.  With my presumed, MCU pricing, outside of the reach, for other MCU use applications?

E.g. Looking here:

https://www.microchip.com/en-us/products/microprocessors/64-bit-mpus/pic64-hpsc/ecosystem

Only seems to show, space flight and Radiation Hardened  project related things.

The PIC64-HPSC series of 64-bit microprocessors (MPUs) is supported by a robust ecosystem of board, component, software, and design tools. This ecosystem includes a number of industry partners that offer expertise in designing comprehensive, system-level solutions tailored for the harsh environmental conditions in space.

[coppice]

Is it only intended for Radiation-Hardened, Space flights, and low-Earth-Orbit projects.  With my presumed, MCU pricing, outside of the reach, for other MCU use applications?

E.g. Looking here:

https://www.microchip.com/en-us/products/microprocessors/64-bit-mpus/pic64-hpsc/ecosystem

Only seems to show, space flight and Radiation Hardened  project related things.

I see the rad hardened PIC64-HPSC line and the PIC64GX commercial grade line on Microchip's site.

[MK14]

Is it only intended for Radiation-Hardened, Space flights, and low-Earth-Orbit projects.  With my presumed, MCU pricing, outside of the reach, for other MCU use applications?

E.g. Looking here:

https://www.microchip.com/en-us/products/microprocessors/64-bit-mpus/pic64-hpsc/ecosystem

Only seems to show, space flight and Radiation Hardened  project related things.

I see the rad hardened PIC64-HPSC line and the PIC64GX commercial grade line on Microchip's site.

Thanks!
That's great news for me then!

I'm a fan (or was) of the PIC32MZ series (I like the straightforward peripheral set, Microchips very long production schedules, i.e. parts remain available for a very long time, with good, but not too many pages, documentation/datasheets/manuals), and the double capable floating point, with the reasonably high end performance.

So, for them to introduce a modern PIC64 series (available, sooner or later for commercial/hobby projects), is good news for me, and everyone else, who is interested.

I have an interest in Risc-V.  But I try and avoid the Chinese (West based ones, who get them made in China is fine, but not where the chip itself, originates from China) version of these chips.  Mainly because of fears over Chinese language documentation, lack of documentation, inaccurate documentation, substandard parts, lack of support, possibly supply issues in the future (e.g. they stop producing, with no notice, go bankrupt, or modern day sanctions), and other possible reasons, including possibly poor driver/**IDE/etc availability and support.

**IDE = What I really mean here, is appropriate tool-chain support, as in GCC and whatever else is needed, e.g. For USB/Ethernet/WiFi etc, drivers/tools and so on.

Also, I don't really like to buy stuff from some of the Chinese sources/suppliers, partly because importing into the UK, is not so straightforward, fast, easy or cheap, necessarily.  I much prefer Digi-key/Mouser and other Western sources.

[JPortici]

how did i miss that? (huge MCHP fanboy and of course it's the main MCU line i work with)
EU masters are going to be much much more interesting than anticipated...

I have an interest in Risc-V.  But I try and avoid the Chinese (West based ones, who get them made in China is fine, but not where the chip itself, originates from China) version of these chips.  Mainly because of fears over Chinese language documentation, lack of documentation, inaccurate documentation, substandard parts, lack of support, possibly supply issues in the future (e.g. they stop producing, with no notice, go bankrupt, or modern day sanctions), and other possible reasons, including possibly poor driver/**IDE/etc availability and support.

and debugger backdoors.

of course
>implying there are no backdoors in western chips

[SiliconWizard]

Cool stuff. A bit odd that they would choose to start with RISC-V with a high-performance chip (probably very expensive) rather than simple MCUs, in particular to replace their MIPS cores.

[coppice]

Cool stuff. A bit odd that they would choose to start with RISC-V with a high-performance chip (probably very expensive) rather than simple MCUs, in particular to replace their MIPS cores.

Why would they want to compete with themselves, when they can put that effort into exploring new markets?

[MK14]

Cool stuff. A bit odd that they would choose to start with RISC-V with a high-performance chip (probably very expensive) rather than simple MCUs, in particular to replace their MIPS cores.

Microchip seem to have very, very big release cycles.  I'm not sure exactly, but perhaps 10 years.  Which is a very long time-span, with technological things.

So, to go for a huge (presumably), powerful, speedup/performance, by aiming for RISC-V, 64-bit, with powerful vector instructions as well.  Makes sense, at least to me.

Presumably, they have researched what customers (or at least the ones, they are aiming for), want, need and are currently requesting (from Microchip).

They may (or may not), have obtained the IP (I know RISC-V is basically free, but if you want to get the know-how, to make a powerful, fast, RISC-V design, that can be produced, with the minimum delay and resources, then that makes a lot of sense).

I.e. Going back to the MIPs, they did in the past, it was something they 'bought-in', rather than something they did themselves.  If I understand things correctly.

[SiliconWizard]

Yes of course, they bought MIPS IPs, as they would have ARM IPs if they had gone with ARM. They just got a much better deal with MIPS, and the MIPS cores they chose looked attractive at the time.
Problem is, now, MIPS is dead. So they are maintaining products on essentially dead technology. I think it would make sense to work on replacing those PIC32s with a RISC-V core, and that would be a much simpler, and shorter, endeavour, to begin with RISC-V. A much cheaper investment too. But maybe they are actually working on that, and they just communicate about the longer-term projects, and leave the surprise for shorter-term ones, which wouldn't be a silly communication strategy.

Anyway, Microchip clearly tends to make "odd" decisions - at least compared to their competitors - and that seems to work ok for them, so, yeah. We'll see. Until they get bought by a bigger fish. That day will feel sour.

[brucehoult]

I see the rad hardened PIC64-HPSC line and the PIC64GX commercial grade line on Microchip's site.

Oh, interesting.

https://www.microchip.com/en-us/products/microprocessors/64-bit-mpus/pic64gx

- 4x SiFive U54 Linux capable cores

- 1x SiFive E51 real-time core

- pinout compatible with PolarFire SoC

So it's basically an FU-540 (HiFive Unleashed) with added peripherals such as dual gigE (FU-540 had one), PCIe, USB, CAN.

Or, it's a PolarFire SoC, without the expensive FPGA.

Should be cheap(ish)?


Dev kit: CURIOSITY-PIC64GX1000-KIT-ES

No price or ordering yet it seems.

https://www.microchip.com/en-us/development-tool/CURIOSITY-PIC64GX1000-KIT-ES

[brucehoult]

Cool stuff. A bit odd that they would choose to start with RISC-V with a high-performance chip (probably very expensive) rather than simple MCUs, in particular to replace their MIPS cores.

The PIC64GX should be much much cheaper -- 4x U54 + 1x E51, basically a FU-540 from HiFive Unleashed (2018) with more peripherals, or a PolarFire SoC without the expensive FPGA.

That *could* be similar price to the various quad Arm A53 chips, as in e.g. Pi Zero 2. In time.

https://www.microchip.com/en-us/development-tool/CURIOSITY-PIC64GX1000-KIT-ES

[brucehoult]

They may (or may not), have obtained the IP (I know RISC-V is basically free, but if you want to get the know-how, to make a powerful, fast, RISC-V design, that can be produced, with the minimum delay and resources, then that makes a lot of sense).

Sure, of course.

The space-rated chip uses SiFive X280 cores: dual issue in-order (like U74 in VisionFive 2 etc) but with a honking big 512 bit RVV 1.0 vector unit.

There are 8 of them in the chip, which can be run as 4 lockstep pairs.

We will soon see four [1] of the same X280 cores in the SG2380 SoC as an "NPU", alongside 16 2.4 GHz P670 cores (Arm A78-class, with 128 bit vector unit) for running the main OS.

The Milk-V "Oasis" will have this SoC, they say for $120 (I think without any RAM or storage) in, they now say, Q4. Sipeed also said they will have a board for $300, presumably populated with RAM and storage. I expect we'll also see this SoC in laptops (probably including an updated main board for Framework) and MiniITX form factor during 2025.

[1] early materials said eight, but as at April and about to tape out it was four

[MK14]

from HiFive Unleashed (2018)

So 2018, initial availability (not Microchip then, I presume, or at least, not only Microchip, then), has given that processor series, time for them to fix, any errata, that is going to be fixed.
Time to at least note and list, other errata.
Time for 'validated' processor(s), to be created.

As, it is all good and dandy, for them to have lockstep, hardware versions available.  But if the fundamental accuracy/robustness of the way the CPU handles instructions, hasn't been extensively tested/validated/fixed/etc.  Then that would sort of limit, the usefulness of lock stepping each pair of applicable cores.

Its datasheet (at least the PIC64GX1000 version, I can't seem to find any others, at least not publicly available ones).  Seems to indicate, that the usual peripheral set, that much of the PIC series chips had.  Such as A2D inputs, and other stuff, is missing, from these newer chips.  But they do include some of what might be expected, from the older PIC chips, such as timers, I2C, serial capabilities, CAN bus, etc.

It seems to have, what would suit a Linux appliance, along with low power consumption (the datasheet doesn't seem to mention what they mean, by low or its value).
Somewhat fast cores, with double capable floating-point, MMU and other stuff.

A long list of secure cryptographic capabilities.  Allowing, what seems to be a very high level of security, and robustness confirmation.

It looks to me, as if Microchip are aiming these products, at specific, niche parts of the (arguably) huge marketplace, for all sorts of Microprocessor/MCU etc devices.

It is an interesting device.  Because it is a sort of half-way house, between pure MCUs, but which typically can't run Linux, and actual Microprocessors, which can run full Linux's, but have little or no, MCU like, built in peripherals.

But then there are SoC's, which this seems similar to.  Which are also, a sort of half-way house, in some cases, between Microprocessors and MCUs.

Since it essentially has, 4 Microprocessor cores, and one MCU core.  The 'algorithm' bits can go in the Microprocessor sections, and the possible real-time embedded, MCU I/O stuff, can go in the MCU section.  Keeping everyone happy.

I think the PIC32MZ, was partly hurt, by the huge availability, of potentially cheaper, faster, and well equipped (peripheral wise), arm based offerings.  From a large number of possible competitors.  So, it was difficult to make a big impact/success with the PIC32MZ.

Plus their (Microchips) big and significant errata, sometimes introducing long lists of delayed (or even never solved), errata, which could sometimes be in basic, reasonably assumed to be working features.  Such as its (originally) high speed/specced A2D converter.  IIRC significantly downgraded, to get it (A2D) working, compared to the original/launch, claimed capabilities.
Would put some/many potential customers, completely off their product line(s).

[brucehoult]

from HiFive Unleashed (2018)

So 2018, initial availability (not Microchip then, I presume, or at least, not only Microchip, then), has given that processor series, time for them to fix, any errata, that is going to be fixed.

SiFive produced the FU-540 SoC and the HiFive Unleashed board within their first $8m of funding (and the 32 bit microcontroller FE-310 and HiFive1 a year earlier).

The FU-540 was basically the already well-proven Berkeley Rocket CPU (as was the Kendryte K210) with a very minimal set of peripherals added to make an SoC -- basically just gigE, DDR3/4 2400 (128 GB max), SPI, i2c, GPIO, and UART.

An LTT video from 2018 showing the HiFive Unleashed running Linux and Quake 2 ...

[MK14]

from HiFive Unleashed (2018)

So 2018, initial availability (not Microchip then, I presume, or at least, not only Microchip, then), has given that processor series, time for them to fix, any errata, that is going to be fixed.

SiFive produced the FU-540 SoC and the HiFive Unleashed board within their first $8m of funding (and the 32 bit microcontroller FE-310 and HiFive1 a year earlier).

The FU-540 was basically the already well-proven Berkeley Rocket CPU (as was the Kendryte K210) with a very minimal set of peripherals added to make an SoC -- basically just gigE, DDR3/4 2400 (128 GB max), SPI, i2c, GPIO, and UART.

An LTT video from 2018 showing the HiFive Unleashed running Linux and Quake 2 ...

Thanks!

I've just enjoyed watching the video (link removed, to avoid its automatic expansion in my reply).

I suspect and partly remember, watching the video, somewhat soon after it was first released.  Nice watching it again, anyway.

The chip(s), to me (of this thread), look really suitable, to release/make a Linux RISC-V laptop/notebook/smartphone-size-not-functionality type of device.

Even if some (RISC-V) already exist.  What I really mean is low cost, affordable ones.  E.g. Final Amazon/Digi-Key/Etc price, is circa £100/$100 for the end customer.

But even $150 .. $250, might be ok.

I wish Raspberry PI, would release something like that, but so far, it has yet to materialize (at least as regards OFFICIAL ones).  Although there have been some earlier kit laptop ones, which might have been official, I'm not 100% sure.

[brucehoult]

The chip(s), to me (of this thread), look really suitable, to release/make a Linux RISC-V laptop/notebook/smartphone-size-not-functionality type of device.

Even if some (RISC-V) already exist.  What I really mean is low cost, affordable ones.  E.g. Final Amazon/Digi-Key/Etc price, is circa £100/$100 for the end customer.

But even $150 .. $250, might be ok.

Bear in mind that case / screen / battery / keyboard / trackpad have some significant cost if you want reasonable quality, even if the CPU costs zero.

The non-space chip they've announced runs at 650 MHz, so it's not a speed demon.

The K210 chip (dual core 64 bit, 400 MHz but they say easily overclocked to 800 MHz) has been around since 2019, and for example the MaixAmigo using it since 2021:

https://wiki.sipeed.com/soft/maixpy/en/develop_kit_board/maix_amigo.html

It's a cute little machine. The main limitation is the 8 MB of on-chip RAM. It's currently $9.60:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/1005002802675701.html

The next SiFive core generation after the U54 being used by Microchip in their "industrial" line, the U74, is similar to an Arm A55, but without NEON. You can get a quad core 1.5 GHz one with 2 GB RAM in the "Milk-V Mars Compute Module" for $30:

https://arace.tech/products/milk-v-mars-cm

Or in SBC form as the Milk-V Mars, StarFive VisionFive 2, Pine64 Star64.

Or as a tablet with keyboard cover as the Pine64 PineTab-V with 4 GB RAM and 64 GB eMMC for $160:

https://pine64.com/product/pinetab-v-10-1-4gb-64gb-risc-v-based-linux-tablet-with-detached-backlit-keyboard/

Or, you can get it in the DeepComputing "Roma" laptop for $299:

https://store.deepcomputing.io/products/dc-roma-risc-v-laptop

Or, recently announced, DeepComputing have it as a mainboard for the Framework 13 laptop for a not yet announced price.

Framework 13 itself starts from $779 with an i5-1340P CPU, no RAM, no storage. Perhaps they'll offer it without a CPU at all (or with the RISC-V one) for less later.

There also currently other laptops with the Chinese THead TH1520 SoC, which uses THead C910 cores similar to Arm A72, primarily the Sipeed Lichee Book 4A and Lichee Console 4A:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/1005007204555493.html

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/1005006174268912.html

So there's already quite some choices, but $100 is going to be hard to hit for a useful and robust portable device, even if the CPU costs zero.

I wish Raspberry PI, would release something like that, but so far, it has yet to materialize (at least as regards OFFICIAL ones).  Although there have been some earlier kit laptop ones, which might have been official, I'm not 100% sure.

There's the Pi 400. Still BYO monitor, of course.

[MK14]

The chip(s), to me (of this thread), look really suitable, to release/make a Linux RISC-V laptop/notebook/smartphone-size-not-functionality type of device.

Even if some (RISC-V) already exist.  What I really mean is low cost, affordable ones.  E.g. Final Amazon/Digi-Key/Etc price, is circa £100/$100 for the end customer.

But even $150 .. $250, might be ok.

Bear in mind that case / screen / battery / keyboard / trackpad have some significant cost if you want reasonable quality, even if the CPU costs zero.

The non-space chip they've announced runs at 650 MHz, so it's not a speed demon.

The K210 chip (dual core 64 bit, 400 MHz but they say easily overclocked to 800 MHz) has been around since 2019, and for example the MaixAmigo using it since 2021:

https://wiki.sipeed.com/soft/maixpy/en/develop_kit_board/maix_amigo.html

It's a cute little machine. The main limitation is the 8 MB of on-chip RAM. It's currently $9.60:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/1005002802675701.html

The next SiFive core generation after the U54 being used by Microchip in their "industrial" line, the U74, is similar to an Arm A55, but without NEON. You can get a quad core 1.5 GHz one with 2 GB RAM in the "Milk-V Mars Compute Module" for $30:

https://arace.tech/products/milk-v-mars-cm

Or in SBC form as the Milk-V Mars, StarFive VisionFive 2, Pine64 Star64.

Or as a tablet with keyboard cover as the Pine64 PineTab-V with 4 GB RAM and 64 GB eMMC for $160:

https://pine64.com/product/pinetab-v-10-1-4gb-64gb-risc-v-based-linux-tablet-with-detached-backlit-keyboard/

Or, you can get it in the DeepComputing "Roma" laptop for $299:

https://store.deepcomputing.io/products/dc-roma-risc-v-laptop

Or, recently announced, DeepComputing have it as a mainboard for the Framework 13 laptop for a not yet announced price.

Framework 13 itself starts from $779 with an i5-1340P CPU, no RAM, no storage. Perhaps they'll offer it without a CPU at all (or with the RISC-V one) for less later.

There also currently other laptops with the Chinese THead TH1520 SoC, which uses THead C910 cores similar to Arm A72, primarily the Sipeed Lichee Book 4A and Lichee Console 4A:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/1005007204555493.html

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/1005006174268912.html

So there's already quite some choices, but $100 is going to be hard to hit for a useful and robust portable device, even if the CPU costs zero.

I wish Raspberry PI, would release something like that, but so far, it has yet to materialize (at least as regards OFFICIAL ones).  Although there have been some earlier kit laptop ones, which might have been official, I'm not 100% sure.

There's the Pi 400. Still BYO monitor, of course.

Actually, I've got a PI400.  I really like it!  My only real complaint, is that they never released a 8 GB ram version.  The 4 GB ram it has (most people say), is enough for almost everything, one would do with a PI400.  So, I suspect it is more a psychological want, or because I sometimes like to do more strenuous things, with them.

I'm sure you're right, and I'm just being completely unrealistic, with my laptop pricing.

The popular and well established laptop/tablet etc models, with Windows or Android as standard, sell in huge quantities.  Which creates huge bulk buying, economies of scale, and somewhat predictable sales targets.

Hence they can be released, at not too unreasonable price points.

But a Linux device (which, sadly but realistically speaking), because it doesn't run WINDOWS, is already heading for a tiny percentage of the available market.  Plus it being RISC-V, which doesn't directly run X86 or Arm code.  Is significantly further, limiting the market, very much into a big downward spiral, as regards possible sales.

So such a laptop/device, with such (relatively) tiny possible sales.  Would incur, massive component/assembly costs, not to mention NRE costs, for all the custom bits.  Such as a neat case for it.  The NRE costs, which instead of being divided down by millions of sales, to affordable amounts per sale.

Would instead (NRE) be divided down by a considerably smaller (order of magnitudes) number, probably meaning that, that alone would make it prohibitively expensive.

Just as you say, the CPU is only a relatively small percentage of the overall cost.

Then there is further (NRE) engineering costs, to develop the internal (possibly custom) battery, and all sorts of compliance issues, which can cost a small fortune to get right, especially if you want to be able to sell it, worldwide, using normal sales channels.

I've seen (on internet) and somewhat wanted the Pine64 laptop.  But either encountered lack of availability and/or too tricky with it not being available to directly buy, from places such as Amazon.  To go ahead and buy it.

(Olimex would have been ok), but in the past, Olimex, refused to sell to the UK, because of the UKs onerous import/export documentation, that the seller in a different country, had to obey. (To charge impart duties/VAT, related to Brexit leaving the EU).
I'm not sure of the latest situation with Olimex, or if they even sell the Pine64.

But maybe it helps you understand why I am so reluctant, to buy, outside of the usual/main UK distributors.

E.g. You can have to pay import duties, VAT, then excessive administration fees for the privilege of paying those fees.  Making eye-watering totals.  It can also cause extra time delays, before you receive the goods.  In addition, the importing delivery company, can invoice you for all those extra charges (they even charge VAT, on top of the delivery charges, and maybe extra fees (i.e. the delivery company fees, gets further VAT added to them) as well, on top of the other taxes/VAT).

Until you pay the invoice (on top of already paying for the item, when you first bought it), you don't receive your item(s).

So it can appear, you are even paying extra VAT, on top of the VAT charge itself, as the delivery company charges for the VAT so far plus its own fees, that total might get its own VAT bill (I'm not sure, but there are many complaint threads about it, on the internet).

So in short, (hypothetically) a $50 thing, might really finally cost $80 .. $120, delivered.

Then there are the import duties (in addition to the VAT charges), which also get complicated, and added to the bill.  If the item costs more than a certain threshold, which is something like $115, I'm not sure.

Also, there is VAT to pay, for the import duty tax!
Which to me, seems really silly.
How can you need to pay extra VAT (a tax) again/more, on the (import duties) tax bill part of the transaction.

So hopefully, you can understand some of my frustration, with the import tax systems.

I don't think I'd be complaining, if 20% VAT was added to the bill, then that was it.  But all this nonsense, making it more like perhaps +100% or more, seems silly.

Also the system is so complicated, I'm not clear what the final price is going to be, or how it all works.  With many companies refusing (I don't blame them) to deal with the UK, because they have to register (even just for one sale for say $0.99), with the UK Government, and fill out these somewhat long and complicated forms.

N.B. I could easily be confused (wrong) about any of the specific details I mentioned, as regards the import taxes/VAT/bills etc.  As I don't do it often, and it seems very complicated, and to vary, depending on which courier imports the item(s).
But the basic concept is correct, so get your wallet ready.

[brucehoult]

So such a laptop/device, with such (relatively) tiny possible sales.  Would incur, massive component/assembly costs, not to mention NRE costs, for all the custom bits.  Such as a neat case for it.  The NRE costs, which instead of being divided down by millions of sales, to affordable amounts per sale.

There's really no need to design a new case / screen / battery. No problem to use an off-the-shelf laptop designed for x86 and just put in a different motherboard.

I just checked and the cheapest x86 laptop (an Acer N100) and cheapest chromebook (a Lenovo) I can find in a major NZ store are both $450 (US$275, $240 before tax) so even that volume doesn't get you anywhere near $100.

(Olimex would have been ok), but in the past, Olimex, refused to sell to the UK, because of the UKs onerous import/export documentation, that the seller in a different country, had to obey. (To charge impart duties/VAT, related to Brexit leaving the EU).

Point of order!

The UK leaving the EU necessarily results in UK products being sold into the EU getting import duties.

BUT Brexit has ALSOLUTELY ZERO to do with products from the EU, USA, Asia, New Zealand or anywhere else having import duties or administration charges when brought into the UK.

That is ENTIRELY the choice of the UK government. They could simply choose not to do that.

Here in NZ we got rid of all [1] such duties in the late 1980s. The vast majority of imports are charged only the 15% GST that is also added to things made in NZ. Private imports valued under $1000 ($400 before October 2018) come in without any charges or administration at all.

Foreign retailers (such as Alibaba or Amazon, but for example Pimoroni doesn't appear to make the threshold) that send more than $60,000 of goods to individuals (not registered for GST) in NZ in a year have to themselves register in the GST system and add NZ GST to their prices at the point of sale.

Such purchases, no matter what the value is, once again sail through the border unmolested.

If tiny NZ can do this, the UK could too.

[1] except on some very few products that attract either sin taxes or else had some NZ manufacturer that was granted a phase out period before being exposed to world prices, shoes and some clothing being one.

[mariush]

I see the rad hardened PIC64-HPSC line and the PIC64GX commercial grade line on Microchip's site.

Oh, interesting.

https://www.microchip.com/en-us/products/microprocessors/64-bit-mpus/pic64gx

- 4x SiFive U54 Linux capable cores

- 1x SiFive E51 real-time core

- pinout compatible with PolarFire SoC

So it's basically an FU-540 (HiFive Unleashed) with added peripherals such as dual gigE (FU-540 had one), PCIe, USB, CAN.


https://www.microchip.com/en-us/development-tool/CURIOSITY-PIC64GX1000-KIT-ES

I'd like to see one of these chips come with at least let's say 32 or 64 MB of ram on the chip, or maybe up to 256-512 MB by having a chip stacked on top of the die .... wouldn't designers be interested in such a chip? Would be enough memory for some applications and save you from having to do layout for ddr4, buy ddr4/ddr4l chips add extra voltage regulators on the board.

I'm thinking  ebook readers for example where you need a bit of ram to parse an epub (decode html, format fonts etc), decompress a pdf file and render, maybe do some text to speech, or play audio books...  yeah I guess these chips are overkill for such uses, could be done with simpler 1-2 32 bit cores.
 

[MK14]

So such a laptop/device, with such (relatively) tiny possible sales.  Would incur, massive component/assembly costs, not to mention NRE costs, for all the custom bits.  Such as a neat case for it.  The NRE costs, which instead of being divided down by millions of sales, to affordable amounts per sale.

There's really no need to design a new case / screen / battery. No problem to use an off-the-shelf laptop designed for x86 and just put in a different motherboard.

I just checked and the cheapest x86 laptop (an Acer N100) and cheapest chromebook (a Lenovo) I can find in a major NZ store are both $450 (US$275, $240 before tax) so even that volume doesn't get you anywhere near $100.

Very good point.
The $100 original price point I posted, was WISHFUL thinking on my part.  I should have thought abut it more (which is so easy now, you have given me the hindsight).
I feel increasingly silly/mistaken for suggesting it and NOT thinking it through.

You're right.  It could even be, that they sell the X86 version, as a Windows machine, and the RISC-V version (as you say, different motherboard), as the Linux version, of the same laptop series.

But I think Microsoft licensing terms, charges the Windows license fees, on all of that companies computer/laptop sales, so that wouldn't turn out too good.

But given the costs of developing that custom (so it fits as a replacement, to the original motherboard for that laptop, with strange shapes/sizes, from what I seem to see) motherboard, complete with the extra compliance testing and other engineering, needed for the special Linux RISC-V version.  I suspect, it would cost a fair bit extra, with potentially limited final sales, of that model.

(Olimex would have been ok), but in the past, Olimex, refused to sell to the UK, because of the UKs onerous import/export documentation, that the seller in a different country, had to obey. (To charge impart duties/VAT, related to Brexit leaving the EU).

Point of order!

The UK leaving the EU necessarily results in UK products being sold into the EU getting import duties.

BUT Brexit has ALSOLUTELY ZERO to do with products from the EU, USA, Asia, New Zealand or anywhere else having import duties or administration charges when brought into the UK.

That is ENTIRELY the choice of the UK government. They could simply choose not to do that.

Here in NZ we got rid of all [1] such duties in the late 1980s. The vast majority of imports are charged only the 15% GST that is also added to things made in NZ. Private imports valued under $1000 ($400 before October 2018) come in without any charges or administration at all.

Foreign retailers (such as Alibaba or Amazon, but for example Pimoroni doesn't appear to make the threshold) that send more than $60,000 of goods to individuals (not registered for GST) in NZ in a year have to themselves register in the GST system and add NZ GST to their prices at the point of sale.

Such purchases, no matter what the value is, once again sail through the border unmolested.

If tiny NZ can do this, the UK could too.

[1] except on some very few products that attract either sin taxes or else had some NZ manufacturer that was granted a phase out period before being exposed to world prices, shoes and some clothing being one.

You're right, I agree with you.

But, unfortunately, the UK (Governments), can get crazy and very heavy-handed, when they design such systems.

I'm VERY disappointed, with the system the UK government(s), have come up with.  Expecting the foreign seller(s), to have to fill in UK complicated Government forms, is just so, over the top, in my mind.

Your NZ system, sounds much better, at least for the consumer.  I get REALLY infuriated, when the +20% VAT bill, gets turned into something like +100%, because of all the commissions, administration fees, and extra bits and pieces, that get added onto the bill.

If you ask me, I think what they have come up with and implemented, as regards small private individual, low value sales.  Such as a $1.99 small module, from a Chinese seller.

Is NOT good, at all.

(Wild rumor only, I DON'T know for sure, what happens) The ironic joke, is that the Chinese sellers, in some cases.  If I have understood some report(s) I've read about it.  End up filling a container(s), full to the brim of these items.  Importing it, exploiting loop-holes in the laws/regulations and/or using some of the profit, a brown paper envelope with such cash, and meetings in a local drinking establishment, after-hours, between the Chinese importer, official(s), to pass certain container loads, through without proper checking.  HOPEFULLY NOT, as this would be illegal.

Anyway.  Suspiciously, it can be possible, to buy something from a supposedly Chinese seller, on Ebay (UK).  For it to arrive the next day or so, after ordering it.  E.g. A cheap Arduino clone.

I.e. They have some warehouses, somewhere in the UK, with these container loads, of popular well selling items.  Then use cheap, possibly illegal (not in the country legally) labour, to fulfill the orders.

EDIT: Struck out some of the text, as I don't have evidence that, that is what occurred.  Maybe it was just loop-holes in the law, or similar.  Maybe there are legitimate reasons which explain it.

[brucehoult]

I'd like to see one of these chips come with at least let's say 32 or 64 MB of ram on the chip, or maybe up to 256-512 MB by having a chip stacked on top of the die .... wouldn't designers be interested in such a chip? Would be enough memory for some applications and save you from having to do layout for ddr4, buy ddr4/ddr4l chips add extra voltage regulators on the board.

I'm thinking  ebook readers for example where you need a bit of ram to parse an epub (decode html, format fonts etc), decompress a pdf file and render, maybe do some text to speech, or play audio books...  yeah I guess these chips are overkill for such uses, could be done with simpler 1-2 32 bit cores.

Sure, a single 1.0 GHz 64 bit core is plenty for such tasks:

Boards:

- Milk-V Duo, 64 MB RAM, $3: https://arace.tech/products/milk-v-duo



- Duo S, 512 MB RAM, $10: https://arace.tech/products/milkv-duo-s

The same site also sells the bare chips (in packs of 5), the CV1800B from the Duo and SG2000 from the Duo S, but they cost more than the above boards.

[MK14]

Maybe another way of my sub $100 'laptop'.  Might be, a RISC-V processor, coupled to a touch screen LCD, perhaps 7 inch, running an OS, which allows tablet like, fundamentally Linux, operation.

So a RISC-V board with at least 512 MB of RAM, perhaps $15
A 7 inch touch screen, colour LCD, perhaps $20 (Chinese)
A plug in battery pack, assuming it plugs into the RISC-V board, perhaps $15
A cheap/simple case, perhaps $10.

So around 15 + 20 + 15 + 10 = $60

A bit like some of the ESP32-S3 things, which include the colour LCD touch screen (and sometimes a simple case).

I.e. A mini RISC-V tablet, self build, perhaps 5 or 7 inch colour LCD touch screen, running a tablet version of Linux, or similar.

At those price points, it would be AliExpress parts.

I.e. This sort of thing (but a bit bigger screen, and RISC-V rather than ESP32):

ESP32-S3 4.3inch Capacitive Touch Display Development Board, 800×480, 5-point Touch, 32-bit LX7 Dual-core Processor

At $32.99.

https://www.waveshare.com/esp32-s3-touch-lcd-4.3.htm

[EverydayMuffin]

More information released today on the PIC64-HPSC and PIC64-GX.
https://www.eetimes.com/microchip-launches-pic64-portfolio-for-embedded-and-space-apps/

[DavidAlfa]

It seems they learned the lesson after not taking the ARM train in time, they later bought Atmel, but ST and NXP were already very strong.

[westfw]

I don't know if I "trust" Microchip to design "Application processor" style chips (ie 500MHz+, "designed to run linux")

It might end up with something important "missing" (like RPi's rp2040 (in the other direction): "oh - you want some sort of code protection?  Huh.")