Author Topic: How did you survive prior to the internet making information easy to find?  (Read 12072 times)

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Offline westfw

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There was a lot of shared knowledge even before Internet.
There were magazines and newsletters and bugfix information shipped on paper, tape, and other media.Shucks, you could go to a trade show and actually learn stuff, or get sent to a vendor for three weeks of classes on obscure internals issues.  Expensive, perhaps, but so was the hardware, and the facility, and etc...
 

Offline pcprogrammer

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There was a lot of shared knowledge even before Internet.
There were magazines and newsletters and bugfix information shipped on paper, tape, and other media.Shucks, you could go to a trade show and actually learn stuff, or get sent to a vendor for three weeks of classes on obscure internals issues.  Expensive, perhaps, but so was the hardware, and the facility, and etc...

You are quite right there. Stuff was expensive, but for schools and foundations like STEIM there were special offers. I got to work with Xilinx FPGA's and receive training for it for a reduced price. Brought that knowledge with me to another company and they had to pay the full price for the software. A bit of a win win situation for Xilinx.

Online RoGeorge

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Another memory from the before-Internet era electronics (there was also no Internet shopping, doh!  ;D), is that we were going to brick and mortar shops.  There were shops with electronic components, just like there are groceries today.

The funny thing is we were sometimes visiting the shop just to see what's new, or drooling at the windows as kids, for parts we couldn't afford.  A side effect of this was that whenever you go to buy a transistor or something, there were always somebody just hanging around looking at the parts and eager to advice others what to buy, or knowing by heart the VCBO, or which transistor would be better to do this and that, and so on.

It was almost like a forum, but in person, and with random strangers you could talk to, by voice.  :)

Offline emece67

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« Last Edit: August 19, 2022, 05:41:46 pm by emece67 »
 
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Offline MathWizard

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It would be nice to have a few things on paper, I don't have a printer. If I lost the internet, I have a bunch of datasheets, and course notes/books in pdf's.

So if I loose the internet and my disk drives, then I'll be up a creek. I'd have to write down all the info I could think of, and go to the library to use their internet, and that trip would take 1/2 a day.

If their was no internet, then I'd be lost without forums and google. I'd have to get a bunch of part catalogues, but I should get a couple anyways.
 

Offline DiTBho

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More than 35 years ago I used to climb over the boundary wall, slipped into the bins of local companies, and dug in the paper waste ...

... found a lot of interesting documentation, abandoned datasheet and books  :o :o :o

(not sure if climbing over the boundary wall was/is legal, anyway  :-// )
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Offline tggzzz

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More than 35 years ago I used to climb over the boundary wall, slipped into the bins of local companies, and dug in the paper waste ...

... found a lot of interesting documentation, abandoned datasheet and books  :o :o :o

(not sure if climbing over the boundary wall was/is legal, anyway  :-// )

Trespassing is not illegal in the UK. If you are caught trespassing you could be liable for damage or theft.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Offline DiTBho

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Trespassing is not illegal in the UK. If you are caught trespassing you could be liable for damage or theft.

Umm, the funny is I never had to carry shears to cut nets or padlocks, I just climbed over a wall, and found bins full of paper, a lot of which paper for ribbon printers, but also abandoned books, notes, and projects, no one who used to shred paper-documents at the time.

The luckiest found: two DTACK copies, one a bit yellowish and a little wrinkled from humidity, the other in mint condition thanks to a protective plastic bag, it was my luckiest day  ;D ;D ;D
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow
 

Offline tggzzz

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Trespassing is not illegal in the UK. If you are caught trespassing you could be liable for damage or theft.

Umm, the funny is I never had to carry shears to cut nets or padlocks, I just climbed over a wall, and found bins full of paper, a lot of which paper for ribbon printers, but also abandoned books, notes, and projects, no one who used to shred paper-documents at the time.

The luckiest found: two DTACK copies, one a bit yellowish and a little wrinkled from humidity, the other in mint condition thanks to a protective plastic bag, it was my luckiest day  ;D ;D ;D

You could probably have been done for theft. If you had taken them from a bin on the street, you could lso have been done, but I'm not sure whether that would have been from the company or from the council.

I once lived in a vey affluent area, and there were riches in jumble sales and at the council tip. After I moved away I believe the council stopped people taking stuff from the tip, and that people were accosted while queueing to get in by people wanting to know what they were dumping and whether they could take it!
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
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Offline tooki

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Today the opposite skill is required: rapidly determining what to ignore. There's vast amounts of superficial and inaccurate dross in people's blogs and yootoob vids.
Indeed, that’s true as a generalization nowadays. In the past, the challenge when researching anything was discovering information and where to find it. Research skills meant knowing how to locate resources.

Nowadays, research skills are a) knowing how to choose search terms carefully to tease out relevant information, and b) knowing how to quickly identify what is relevant, high quality information and what is crap.
 

Offline YurkshireLad

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My first job pre-internet, was programming Fortran on VAX-VMS. We had the complete VMS documentation set in a closet that covered one wall of the office. My only option was to pore over documentation and find my own answer. I miss those days of having real, printed documentation.
 
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Offline tepalia02

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Well, when there was no internet, there was no ESP32 either :) Yeah, it's very true that before the internet was this much available, Engineers and hobbyists had to work really harder. Hobbyists were mostly dependent on electronics project books. Engineers had to keep their textbooks handy all the time.
 

Offline brucehoult

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Well, when there was no internet, there was no ESP32 either :) Yeah, it's very true that before the internet was this much available, Engineers and hobbyists had to work really harder. Hobbyists were mostly dependent on electronics project books. Engineers had to keep their textbooks handy all the time.

Before the internet was before highly-integrated specialised devices, in general. Everything was built using standard fairly simple parts. And when there was a highly integrated device it was used unchanged for a long long time. I mean ... Apple was selling computers using a 1 MHz 6502 from April 1976 (Apple I) until November 1993 (Apple IIe) though they did change from NMOS 6502 to CMOS 65C02 (with a few extra instructions) in March 1985.

But ... 17 1/2 years selling essentially the same computer with unchanging performance. It's completely unthinkable today. Just the price was continually reduced (at least in inflation-adjusted terms) especially taking into account the RAM and peripherals that came standard at the end vs being expensive add-ons at the start.

The Z80 had a similarly long run, from the TRS-80 in August 1977, to the ZX80 in 1980 to the ZX Spectrum finally discontinued in 1992.

And you can still today buy both CPUs. They are still being made, even in the traditional 0.1" DIP40 packages.

So the main point ... back before the internet, technology wasn't changing all that fast, so it wasn't hard to keep up. Even if you got your news and datasheets three or six months late, it didn't matter much.
 
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Offline pdenisowski

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For me it was mostly printed materials, i.e. books and journals/magazines.  All of the R&D companies I worked for and/or visited had libraries full of physical books and other publications.  In some cases you could find what you were looking for by visiting the local university library as well.  If you were a serious researcher or academic, it behooved you to start amassing your own library of technical books -- I bought lots of books simply because I thought I might need them "someday". 

There was also quite a bit of "tribal knowledge" -- if you knew who to ask, they often could point you towards the information you needed.

(For context:  I learned to type on a manual Smith Corona typewriter and wrote my first thesis on a typewriter as well.)
Test and Measurement Fundamentals video series on the Rohde & Schwarz YouTube channel:  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKxVoO5jUTlvsVtDcqrVn0ybqBVlLj2z8
 

Offline pdenisowski

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Today the opposite skill is required: rapidly determining what to ignore. There's vast amounts of superficial and inaccurate dross in people's blogs and yootoob vids.

Most videos are a waste of time: mere talking heads (much slower than reading), there are too many ums and ahs and you knows, and too much "I unboxed it plugged it in and it worked therefore it is good look at me and give me advertising revenue".

Go back and look at some of the corporate videos from before the 80s. They tend to be notably concise and information dense: they were carefully planned because creation, manufacturing, distribution and viewing were difficult.

Thank you! :)  This pretty much describes exactly my thoughts when it comes to producing videos and other content.

I also believe the same could be said about writing books, articles, etc.  Without backspace, cut-and-paste, etc., changes often required you to re-type the entire document (!), so you had to carefully plan, outline, organize, etc. before you ever started hitting keys.

Test and Measurement Fundamentals video series on the Rohde & Schwarz YouTube channel:  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKxVoO5jUTlvsVtDcqrVn0ybqBVlLj2z8
 

Offline MK14

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So how did you find out about this kind of stuff prior to internet making information searchable?

Let's imagine I was sent back to 1970, in a time-machine, with no money, or anything, except basic clothing.  Let's also assume I can keep my knowledge of electronics and stuff, but have to forget any specific datasheets I may remember or pin-outs.

A library of that era (or borrow from friends/clubs/educational-establishments), would probably/potentially have electronics books and magazines, for reference.  One can then take notes (for free), on paper.  E.g. The TTL 7400's Pin out.

You can do odd-jobs, or pocket-money or something, and get some £cash.

From various places, shops and/or mail-order, you can get, perhaps priced in shillings.  Grab bags of miscellaneous, transistors, diodes, resistors, capacitors, integrated circuits, logic ICs, etc.

If you are handy with an analogue meter, you can identify the lead connections on a transistor (resistance mode of meter, there are techniques for doing it, fairly quickly), measure its Hfe, and estimate its capabilities, from the size of its package (power/current handling of transistors/diodes, power rating of resistors, capacitors often have their capabilities, printed on them).
Logic ICs, can be hand datasheet'ed.  I.e. Let's say it is the era of TTL logic, which 1970 mostly was (there was still other types such as DTL, RTL etc).  The power was usually 5V+ on the highest number pin, and ground for the diagonally opposing pin e.g. Pin 7 GND and pin 14 +5V, on a 14 pin DIL.
By probing (multi-meter or logic-probe or even just a resistor plus LED (bit early for them, to be widely available), or small filament lamp, buffered by a transistor.
Then you can try out the connections, as the outputs will be somewhat obvious, the rest are inputs (ignoring power connections), and assume it is either AND/OR/NAND/NOR/XOR/INVERTERS, as an initial guess.  It is a bit like tying your tie.  I could fairly easily do it, but describing how to do it, would be a real pain.  You just go through and experiment for a few minutes, and somewhat rapidly, decide what it is.
More complicated logic, such as decoders/flip-flops, would be much harder to determine.

Suppliers, especially in later decades, would be happy (sometimes free, sometimes perhaps 10 pence or more, per sheet, photocopies of the applicable datasheets).

Also, there were books, with lots of transistor specifications in them (usually big tables), from a wide range of manufacturers.  Typically called something like, transistor substitution guides. (Towers?, was a popular one).

In the old days, there were lots of shops, selling electronic items (components), or sold many items, but included a section with electronic items (transistors/resistors etc).  It was quite possible that the shop-keeper, or one of their assistants, or even (at the right time), a knowledgeable customer.  Might be able to help with your electronics questions.

Some (quite a few) items, such as TVs, Radios, etc.  Actually had the schematic, inside the case.  Some items instructions came with a schematic.  Some components when bought, actually included a paper leaflet, with datasheet like details, printed on it.  Especially (needed to request a free datasheet with purchase) Radio-spares (now known as RS), Maplins (who were happy to give free datasheets on request, if I remember correctly, also their earlier catalogs, had a lot of datasheet pin out and other information in it).  Tandy (also known as radio shack, in some other countries), also typically/sometimes had datasheets, inside the IC packet.

Some of the better electronics kits (e.g. Heathkit), would come with decent schematics, and component details (pictures/outlines rather than datasheets as such).

EDIT:  In later years (before the internet), if you were important enough (i.e. suitable businesses, not individual hobbyists), you could get the distributors/suppliers/manufacturers, to fax through their datasheets.  Or post you the databooks, if significant enough of a customer, for them to justify doing that.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 12:40:56 pm by MK14 »
 

Offline pdenisowski

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Exactly so.  I am disappointed that video makers / hosters / youtube etc. don't typically include a
"transcript" link next to the video so one would have a choice of either scanning the text or watching the video
or using the transcript to at least know where to seek to find particularly interesting bits of the video.

Of course it'd be far more accessible that way, too, for people who do better with text than video/audio for whatever reasons.

I started adding "chapters" to the R&S Test and Measurement Fundamentals videos for exactly that reason - makes it easier to "search" the video for things that are interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKxVoO5jUTlvsVtDcqrVn0ybqBVlLj2z8

And in some cases, I also create whitepaper versions of the videos for people who prefer to read, e.g.



and

https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/products/test-and-measurement/analyzers/signal-spectrum-analyzers/white-paper-understanding-phase-noise-fundamentals-register_255143.html

are essentially the same content, just in different formats.
Test and Measurement Fundamentals video series on the Rohde & Schwarz YouTube channel:  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKxVoO5jUTlvsVtDcqrVn0ybqBVlLj2z8
 
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Offline PlainName

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Quote
In later years (before the internet), if you were important enough (i.e. suitable businesses, not individual hobbyists), you could get the distributors/suppliers/manufacturers, to fax through their datasheets.  Or post you the databooks, if significant enough of a customer, for them to justify doing that.

Indeed. This is a sample from my library at that time - the TTL Data Book was a must for everyone and an excellent example of what you could get, but all of them were very good. OTOH, this is all you got - no googling for examples or asking on some web forum.
 
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Offline pcprogrammer

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Here is a small sample of what I still have in my cupboard  :)

There are databooks, school text books, microprocessor specific books, some by Elektuur (Elektor) an electronics magazine, compiler manuals, product manuals of Brutech, etc.



This is the user manual of a terminal made by Brutech.



It also contains schematics.


Offline TomKatt

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In addition to new products and project articles, most electronic magazines had great adverts for cheap surplus gear - a great supply resource pre-internet which allowed learning through experimentation.

I always loved Bob Pease's "What's all this ..., anyhow" articles - I learned a lot of theory reading that.
Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a PICt
 
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Offline cortex_m0

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So the main point ... back before the internet, technology wasn't changing all that fast, so it wasn't hard to keep up. Even if you got your news and datasheets three or six months late, it didn't matter much.

As a corollary, because searching for things was more difficult, and the community of wise greybeards were more difficult to consult, individual engineers were more likely to use what they already knew.

If you know the 8051, learned the 8051 quirks, and had all the right resources in hand for 8051 projects, it would take quite a push to move away from an 8051 microcontroller. Of course, there are still 8051 fanboys today, probably all minted in the 1980s.
 
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Offline johnboxall

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As a youngster I'd just walk into a university library and find things to read. I will still do this today when travelling just to poke around and see what they have to offer. When I worked at DSE in the 90s we had to shrink-wrap the circuit library books, and in one store put them behind glass - people were just ripping pages out.
 
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Offline brucehoult

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As a youngster I'd just walk into a university library and find things to read. I will still do this today when travelling just to poke around and see what they have to offer. When I worked at DSE in the 90s we had to shrink-wrap the circuit library books, and in one store put them behind glass - people were just ripping pages out.

"Just"

The nearest was 200 km away, and that city a once or twice a year trip. Hell, even today it's probably a twice a year trip for me (not counting going only to its airport, or passing through to somewhere else without stopping)
 

Offline DiTBho

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The nearest was 200 km away

Pretty like my new Estonian friend Ania :o :o :o

Ania-who? A blonde girl with weird strands of purple hair, met at the last hacking camping  ... definitely unusual look for an Estonian (I mean blond is a usual color there, but not with purple strands of hair), she told that she doesn't live near Tallinn, so before moving to a very small rented apartment near the capital, she had to travel miles and miles just to read something good.

Now she enjoys everything all the Taltech (Tallinn University Technology) can offer her :D
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Offline todorp

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...she had to travel miles and miles just to read something good.

Are you aware Estonia is a very small country?  :-DD
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 01:24:55 pm by todorp »
 


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