Warning: !!! Metrology scam !!!

[doktor pyta]

Disclaimer: I know this is maybe not proper section for this subject however the scam is more and more frequent in our "metrology world". I also know that I shouldn't  place links to auctions which may soon become removed. The idea is to show examples and warn honest engineers and hobbists.

Be aware of auction such as these (I've confirmed this with real seller of these instruments):

http://www.quoka.de/handwerk-hausbau/geraete-maschinen/c2925a179522972/agilent-hp-3458a-8-1.html

or these

http://www.kalaydo.de/kleinanzeigen/sonstiges/wavetek+datron+4808+4600+kalibrator+mit+allen+optionen+und+kompl+zubehoer+opt+10+20+30+40+50+60/a/05394d0c/

These guys steal photos and descriptions from Ebay.
The seller then proposes secure transaction using escrow provided by Ebay. Finally You get document via email but the sender's email address is not related to Ebay (attached below).

Scam was recently related to buying cars yahts, luxury goods...what can I say...
Don't get screwed !

[TiN]

Yea, it's not quite the topic. Things aside, this "auction" have already red bells due to:
* Bank transfer requirement to some "agency" instead of usual PayPal
* No shipping cost for 40+kg freight item? Yea, sure.
* " confirmed by the eBay representative, eBay is authorized to ship the product " - what's this BS. Maybe for sales like cars or houses on eBay such applies, but for piece of T&M gear it's all seller's responsibility (with exception of GSP).

P.s. I remember this 4808+4600 kit But things like this even happen often on ebay itself, calibrators with stolen photos relisted with "too-good-to-be-true" prices and zero feedback members. One of 3458A sellers even stole my photos before for their listing (to be fair, they removed listing after my message).

[ManateeMafia]

Been there, done that.

I have reported many listings to eBay and most of them were removed. One particular scammer requests you contact them directly or they will cancel your bid. Another sign is that the description is an image preventing you from copying the text. Most likely to keep a search engine from detecting the listing.

[Johncanfield]

There are a bunch of scammers trying to sell non-existent ham radio equipment on qrz.com. They use equipment images grabbed from the net and insist on using PayPal friends and family.  Lots of guys have unfortunately been taken, sometimes for hundreds of dollars.  I had one guy send me an email offering to sell me a linear amplifier for a great price.

I asked for pictures with his call sign in the images  (I knew he was a scammer) and he sent some crudely Photoshopped images back. I was trying to waste as much of his time as possible . Then I reported him on qrz.com,  then the idiot complained to me for reporting him.

[HighVoltage]

A few times I have taken a risk on ebay when something was too good to be true and each time it was ok. So it is not always a scam when it looks like one. The obvious scams are so blatantly in our face that these days no real sane person should fall for it.

As soon as a bank transfer is required in to a different country, stay away.
eBay and Paypal have gotten really good over the years with buyers protection.

 

[try]

I purchased a Fluke 5200A für around USD 80,- on Ebay.
The device unfortunately never arrived  but Ebay/Paypal refunded me afterwards.
But at USD 80,- it was worth trying even though the price seemed to be off market for a working unit.

[CJay]

Agreed, it can be very obvious when something is a scam but it pays to pay attention to the details, people think Paypal is always safe and secure but there are plenty of circumstances when it's possible to lose your money.

There are bargains out there to be had, I have had a few that were 'too good to be true' over the years, Sayrosa Modulation meter for half the price others were selling at, CMU200 for £150 (plus tax and shipping) so it also pays to keep looking and checking.

Not everyone is out to scam you, just make a few simple checks but be aware there are abrasive and difficult to deal with people selling on the net who will just not bother to get back to you if you ask questions which inconvenience them

[TiN]

I see no misleading here, to be fair. Item description clearly says 509 (STD) board. Photos clearly show 509 board. Seller took the effort to actually take decent pics for each sides, not all do this.
There is no promise anywhere that you get 519 or 529 board. Seller may not know much about 3458A, it doesn't mean listing have a problem though.

Age is a good thing in this particular case, as there is a chance that this reference was aged and stabilized over all those years. If I'd have a choice to buy LTZ ref from 1988 or new one from 2016 for same price and parts otherwise, I'd go for 1988 one. There is high chance that such reference can be more stable than brand new 519 A9 Ref

Price is okayish too, you wouldn't get LTZ ref much cheaper even if you do it all DIY.
If you think that getting A9-HFL 2ppm/year board directly from Keysight for 2K$ is much better, and does not need rigorous and time consuming testing with verified equipment - well, you are in for surprise 

[CalMachine]

Another shady seller ALLTEST/EXPRESS TEST - even selling goods they do not have ...
They relist goods that were advertised as Tested - after they were sold - on german site of www.eBAY.de

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/datron-4910-on*bay/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/381944320088
http://www.ebay.de/itm/381949938218

The funny thing about that 4910 is... they've listed it on ebay several other times.  My boss tried to buy in back in October when it was listed.  They told him they didn't actually have it and they were working on finding one. 

This is more of a guess, but I think the only reason why I think they even started advertising a 4910 was because I had gone around to many test equipment resellers hounding people for a 4910.  All of the sudden, one day, they have one appear on ebay, all the while telling me in email communication they don't have one.

[Co6aka]

FWIW, I think I "know" this guy from the local hamfests, but I can't picture him in my mind right now. If it's him, he's a royal PITA demanding that people sell to him at a lowball price; doesn't take no for an answer. Maybe I'm mistaken, but if it's him on several occasions I've told him where to go and what to do when he gets there. Elbows his way into deals people are in the process of making. Also tries to sell on consignment and then fleece the consignor, tries to "sell" what someone else has and then buy it from them when he's "sold" it. Also uses stock photos for his alleged inventory.

It's off-hamfest-season now, but I'll start seeking intel and report whatever I uncover.

[bingo600]

Another shady seller ALLTEST/EXPRESS TEST - even selling goods they do not have ...
They relist goods that were advertised as Tested - after they were sold - on german site of www.eBAY.de

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/datron-4910-on*bay/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/381944320088
http://www.ebay.de/itm/381949938218

The url to the thread was mislinked, here is hopefully a working one. Make sure to read the e-mail dialog start with the bottom one.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/datron-4910-on*bay/

Bingo

[TiN]

Being late than never.. Somehow I missed butterfly response

Of course you have already visited this path - ordered a fresh 2ppm grade 03458-66529 PCA directly from KS and verified its long term drift before drawing such negative conclusion ?

What I was saying, that even fancy 2ppm-spec reference still...

need rigorous and time consuming testing with verified equipment

Which is nothing negative there. Will 66529 PCBA meet it's 2ppm/year level? Probably yes. Will it meet that spec in you specific conditions? Probably no. Only 1 year testing with subppm-level stable equipment (bank of 732B's for example) can tell. Just as any other reference, be it 8ppm LTZ1000 stock module, or generic LM399-base DIY build. Thinking that big dollars will guarantee you stability is bit naive, only actual testing with proper setup will bring confidence required.

[tggzzz]

Another shady seller ALLTEST/EXPRESS TEST - even selling goods they do not have ...
They relist goods that were advertised as Tested - after they were sold - on german site of www.eBAY.de

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/datron-4910-on*bay/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/381944320088
http://www.ebay.de/itm/381949938218

I remember seeing this seller when researching the price of a Tektronix 1502. The "Guaranteed Working - 5 days to complete full testing process" raised a red flag. How do they know if it is working if they haven't done the testing? Getting a 1502 working is nontrivial since it won't power up on the mains unless it has a semi-custom battery!

[JoeO]

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[mmagin]

Another shady seller ALLTEST/EXPRESS TEST - even selling goods they do not have ...
They relist goods that were advertised as Tested - after they were sold - on german site of www.eBAY.de

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/datron-4910-on*bay/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/381944320088
http://www.ebay.de/itm/381949938218

I remember seeing this seller when researching the price of a Tektronix 1502. The "Guaranteed Working - 5 days to complete full testing process" raised a red flag. How do they know if it is working if they haven't done the testing? Getting a 1502 working is nontrivial since it won't power up on the mains unless it has a semi-custom battery!

This kind of shit makes me wish eBay made it easy to "never show me items from this seller".  That language isn't even really clear, at first glance I would have thought that means "we did a 5 day long testing process on this item".  It's a perfectly valid model to not refurb items until someone pays, but it should be really, really obvious, when the usual expectation is that you're buying things that will ship quite soon.

[dr.diesel]

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[BC758]

Please stop posting the names of our employees on the open web.  It is unsafe and strange.  I'm sure you wouldn't want your family and friends' contact information being displayed openly in a public forum. 

FYI - The hamfest person you were referencing is Tech Systems.  Not Alltest.  We haven't done Hamfest in almost 10 years.

[CatalinaWOW]

* No shipping cost for 40+kg freight item? Yea, sure.

I don't think this is a red flag.  I am a casual Ebay buyer and seller.  I usually charge shipping on low dollar stuff, and don't on high dollar stuff.  It is a psychology thing since the same factors affect buyer and seller.  For high dollar items the shipping will be a small fraction of the price, so it shouldn't really matter one way or the other, but buyers seem really attracted to free shipping.  On low dollar things shipping can easily exceed the cost of the item.  As a seller I can't take the chance of paying more than I receive to get a product to someone.  Unfortunately, free shipping is even more attractive at this end of the price range.  When I am buying I search based on total cost - shipping plus current bid.

[Co6aka]

Please stop posting the names of our employees on the open web.  It is unsafe and strange.

  Yeah... ...strange:

http://www.alltest.net/Alltest-Contact-Information

[Co6aka]

FYI - The hamfest person you were referencing is Tech Systems.

Aah, so you know the guy, and I wasn't nomerembering! Great memory, after ten years and all, that you still remember him.