PTB at the Maker Faire in Hannover

[Henrik_V]

Hi Voltnuts,
since it's our mission (since 1887 in behalf of the emperor  ) to realize and tranfer the units   ....   and it's fun ...
we will be at the Maker Faire in Hannover (Germany) 26.-27. of August,  together with a Fluke 5700, a 3458,  hopefully a Fluke 8508 (not quite shure) and a nice KS LCR-Meter.
Don't expect the last ppms,  it's at the faire, no controlled temperature and sometimes running Tesla-coils nearby     and it's not an official PTB-calibration certificate for traceability.
 
We have some spare power sockets for your gear* and  we managed to do about 120 calibrations in two days in the last years ... 96% are handheld DMMs.

I know it's more a international forum here, but perhapst I can motivate some colleages to do the same?
Thousands of technic affine youngsters...  in the last years more than 1% of the the visitors noticed us before (and packed a DMM )



   
 *) if our neighbours from Wellenkino don't trigger the fuse 

[try]

Highly recommended event!

It's not just about the gear.   

You reach friendly people at the last line of defense*. If they don't have an answer to your question - who else could?

Be careful: The barbed wire around their home facility is directed inwards. 

If you go there using public transport carrying a heavy load you can use the number 11 metro which stops directly in front of "Hannover Congress Centrum". Starting at the main station you go down the stairs into the subway area and take a subway going to station "Kröpcke" which is the next subway station southwards. Leave the metro and switch the platform to enter a number 11 metro running into the direction "Zoo".
It takes about 15 minutes to get from the main station to the congress center.

https://www.uestra.de/auskunft-und-fahrplaene/liniennetz/

* The Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt (PTB) is the national metrology institut in Germany.

[quarks]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing

[tggzzz]

Oh, that's so tempting.

Could you calibrate a Solarton 7081 DVM, a Transcell II 10.0000V reference, and a Dekapot Kelvin Varley divider?

[HighVoltage]

Thank you for sharing this, I was not aware of the PTB being at the maker fair.
May be I will go this year

[try]

Oh, that's so tempting.

Could you calibrate a Solarton 7081 DVM, a Transcell II 10.0000V reference, and a Dekapot Kelvin Varley divider?

There is a little report below the picture of the LM399-based reference:

https://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/398160

Here are some missing details:
A Solartron 7081 DVM has been calibrated last year (referred to as the 8,5 digit multimeter). It was given for free to the current owner and would have landed in the dustbin otherwise. He grabbed the opportunity and went to the fair to then successfully reduce his uncertainty about the device.

A 7081 is just a multimeter and the Trancell is just a voltage source. I guess you won't have a problem calibrating it because they don't calibrate - you calibrate. You tell them either to provide a source or to measure your source. As far as the Dekapot is concerned I don't know what kind of measurement you intend to perform.

You might want to bring in the proper cable with the special connector though.

They usually bring in some funny devices as well like the 100kV-divider below.
I calibrated its dimensions with my shoe-meter. 

[Henrik_V]

...
Could you calibrate a Solarton 7081 DVM, a Transcell II 10.0000V reference, and a Dekapot Kelvin Varley divider?

As noted in the first post, we will bring a Fluke 5700, a HP3458 op 002, and a KS E4980A   ... maybe that will be assisted by a Fluke 8508A, a 732A and a 752A , a 200g balance,...  maybe .. 
a lot of silverware ... sometimes even gold-nuggets. 
All that gear always stay overnight at the PTB in Braunschweig, is transported to the fair early in the morning, build-up, warm-up, cross-checked, 10 o'clock:  the crowd is coming, 8h for about 60 calibrations ,back to BS.

All our gear is freshly calibrated, but again:

 DON'T EXPECT THE LAST PPMs AT THE FAIR !  It's not in the lab.

(Reminds me to pass the 5700 over my fellows, to the 'german volt lab'  )

Working horse is the 5700, about 96% of the devices are handheld DMM. You declare one (of up to 7) calibration point (U/I DC/AC Hz), we operate the 5700 (still standby) and hand you a cable with up to 5 connectors, you operate your device, you say OK, we set the 5700 in operation mode. You note the result.

Voltage references, reference impedances ... as long as the 3458 or the E4980 (and maybe, I currently can't say for shure, we are working on it, a 8508) can measure it.
A KVD is a different thing, and usually much more time consuming,  unless you say , hook it up to the 5700 (or your Vref) and dial out 7 (+x  ) points measured by our DMM.

For meters that deserve it, we have sockets for warm-up, invest some more work. We had some 6.5 up to  8.5 digit gear in the past  (7081,345[6,7,8], some more 34401ff, Keithley 19x, 2k)
I'm happy that my former fellow Roland will join us again, he's retired (... or so), has more than 40 years of experience in E calibration, but even he don't know all justification procedures by hart, so look up your cal procedure, pack the important pages of the SM, make a plan , make a plan B    ... and be there early!   

Yes, usually we bring some other 'naked' gear ... metrology porno 

[e61_phil]

Perhaps this is also the right place and time to shake some volt-nut hands?

[TiN]

PTB  . Indeed great chance to do some neat checks and maybe even convert some folks into baby volt-nuts
I wish I'd be closer, K2002 fits into backpack very well  .

I'd agree with Henrik_V as not to expect proper calibration of hi-end standards/meters.
These are still delicate sensitive instruments and would not be just for faire type event with lot of charged buckets of water lurking around
Even plain K2001/2002 calibration procedure takes up to 40 minutes, assuming everything work out first time. There is no such thing as quick 5 minute calibration of 7.5 digit+ meter. 

[tggzzz]

...
Could you calibrate a Solarton 7081 DVM, a Transcell II 10.0000V reference, and a Dekapot Kelvin Varley divider?

As noted in the first post, we will bring a Fluke 5700, a HP3458 op 002, and a KS E4980A   ... maybe that will be assisted by a Fluke 8508A, a 732A and a 752A , a 200g balance,...  maybe .. 
a lot of silverware ... sometimes even gold-nuggets. 
All that gear always stay overnight at the PTB in Braunschweig, is transported to the fair early in the morning, build-up, warm-up, cross-checked, 10 o'clock:  the crowd is coming, 8h for about 60 calibrations ,back to BS.

Too many decades ago, when E Germany was very definitely still E Germany, I knew a Prof Werner Leonhard at TU Braunschweig. A pleasant town.

All our gear is freshly calibrated, but again:

DON'T EXPECT THE LAST PPMs AT THE FAIR !  It's not in the lab.

Noted! Since the 7081 was very cheap (replacing the mains input socket added 50% to the cost!) and I've had to recondition it and construct a connector and lead, anything would be a pleasant confirmation of its (in)accuracy

It is now nice and stable, but after a couple of hours it indicates the Trancell voltage is 9.99965*V, i.e. 35ppm out. Not too bad, but... Must. Not. Become. A. Voltnut.

Working horse is the 5700, about 96% of the devices are handheld DMM. You declare one (of up to 7) calibration point (U/I DC/AC Hz), we operate the 5700 (still standby) and hand you a cable with up to 5 connectors, you operate your device, you say OK, we set the 5700 in operation mode. You note the result.

Voltage references, reference impedances ... as long as the 3458 or the E4980 (and maybe, I currently can't say for shure, we are working on it, a 8508) can measure it.
A KVD is a different thing, and usually much more time consuming,  unless you say , hook it up to the 5700 (or your Vref) and dial out 7 (+x  ) points measured by our DMM.

Useful information; thanks.

The Trancell has its own batteries and oven, so it would already be warmed up => two quick voltage readings, the 10V and Vzener.

I was imagining I would hook the 1kohm input impedance KVD up to one of your voltage sources (any stable voltage <= 10V), then would take a photo of your DVM reading for each setting (3 decades plus a 100 division potentiometer. That's more than 7 readings (say 3*10+10, to be investigated), but each reading would be fast: click a decade switch, take a photo.

I only got the KVD a couple of days ago, and it looks like my Trancell won't drive its 1kohm impedance; I've some work to do there.

For meters that deserve it, we have sockets for warm-up, invest some more work. We had some 6.5 up to  8.5 digit gear in the past  (7081,345[6,7,8], some more 34401ff, Keithley 19x, 2k)
I'm happy that my former fellow Roland will join us again, he's retired (... or so), has more than 40 years of experience in E calibration, but even he don't know all justification procedures by hart, so look up your cal procedure, pack the important pages of the SM, make a plan , make a plan B    ... and be there early!   

I've been doing some thinking and investigating options.

I'd love to do a full recalibration of the 7081, but that would probably certainly take too much of your time - doubly true as I would probably get it wrong the first time! Plus...

Flying over with it would be a problem: too big for hand baggage, probably too delicate for hold baggage, and the hold temperature and any condensation would mean I would have to "cook" it in a blanket for a day, as per the manual! Driving would be too tiring and expensive with the EuroTunnel in the way. While I like trains, I'm not happy about carrying a 7081 that far!

Hence I doubt I'll bring the 7081 Which probably means you are breathing a sigh of relief

Yes, usually we bring some other 'naked' gear ... metrology porno 

That's an unfair advantage

[tggzzz]

There is no such thing as quick 5 minute calibration of 7.5 digit+ meter. 

Too true! I was only thinking of attaching it and a calibrated meter to a voltage source, and then note the two meters' readings.

But, for reasons I mentioned elsewhere, even that appears too ambitious.

[tggzzz]

Plane tickets booked, so I'm coming

I'll only bring my Trancell II 10V reference, so that should be easy to measure with a decent voltmeter (or a crap null meter with a decent voltage source!). It is internally powered by gel-cells, so it can be warmed-up before getting to the stand.

My main concern is that the airport security mob might be fazed by "strange" electronics. Since they want verification that it turns on, I'll take a small DVM to show them the difference between on and off (and maybe a mains lead for turning the "ac on" light on). I'll also take copies of the regs w.r.t. batteries, just in case they object. Plus a screwdriver tip in case they want me to disassemble it.

Any other suggestions to allay suspicions?

[Henrik_V]

Plane tickets booked, so I'm coming
[...]
Any other suggestions to allay suspicions?

Wow 
I know they don't like srewdrivers ... but the tip / bit ??

See you 

[try]

tggzzz,

be aware that we have a different type of mains connector in Germany. 
Transporting the device with either hand luggage or regular luggage could make a difference.

You could as well try to contact airport security at both airports involved in time before traveling.

[BBBbbb]

@tggzzz
No need to worry unless you plan on taking it as a hand luggage. Even then DMM w/o probes also no problem, but something sharp (even allen keys) and you can say good bye to it.

So best is to put it in the regular luggage and no worries. I've been called for additional checks a few time (but very rarely) to open up my luggage and explain what's what. Sometimes they do it w/o calling you, so don't put a locker on the luggage.
Usually you start explaining and they get bored and hurry you up to finish up. They don't like listening to the tech specs of my equipment

[tggzzz]

This is all a significant change since I first and last travelled by air with electronics!

The first time the NiCd cells had to be discharged and in hand baggage, so the equipment couldn't be turned on (not that that mattered at that time).
The last time no electronics were allowed in checked baggage in the hold; that I can understand.
Now it seems electronics and charged batteries are allowed as hand baggage and checked baggage.

... but I'm only too aware that batteries have brought down at least one airliner, possibly more. Now they would have been lithium and these are (allowably small) SLA gel-cells, but I still don't like the thought of what might happen to backpacks on conveyor belts.

Ah, decisions, decisions...

[Henrik_V]

What you can try...
Phone the airport and ask if the luggage-(research)-station offer the service to store rejected stuff, in Hannover that was possible for 5-10€. BTDT
Be at the port very early...  communicate with the airport sec. ... If stuff get rejected , leave it there....   

You will always have the risk, that you can't bring it back    because of the sec guys in Hannover     . Talk to me at the faire about that... 

[tggzzz]

What you can try...
Phone the airport and ask if the luggage-(research)-station offer the service to store rejected stuff, in Hannover that was possible for 5-10€. BTDT
Be at the port very early...  communicate with the airport sec. ... If stuff get rejected , leave it there....   

You will always have the risk, that you can't bring it back    because of the sec guys in Hannover     . Talk to me at the faire about that...

Hey! I'm supposed to be the pessimistic grouchy old man; I'm sure you are too young for that!

Anyway, you won't be that lucky If that happens, I'll return by train! I'm <expletive deleted> if I'm leaving it behind

[try]

tggzzz,

when will you be there, Saturday or Sunday?

[tggzzz]

tggzzz,

when will you be there, Saturday or Sunday?

In Hanover on Saturday morning, but probably too tired to appreciate the Faire. Hence probably Sunday.

You'll recognise me: <deleted out of modesty >

[tggzzz]

Great fun at the Faire today.

The PTB people are a great bunch with some kit that I wished I could take home, some very strange Tek kit that I didn't know existed, and one piece of geek porn that I really didn't expect to see.

No I'm not going to tell you what it is; you will either have to visit their stand yourself, or wait for them to tell you  (But they were surprised they were able to bring it along).

[TiN]

Photos or never happen'd. 

[babysitter]

No I'm not going to tell you what it is; you will either have to visit their stand yourself, or wait for them to tell you  (But they were surprised they were able to bring it along).

Is it in a dewar?

[Echo88]

JJA? 

[tggzzz]

Photos or never happen'd. 

Yeah

I was going to take my camera but it wouldn't have easily fitted in my handbaggage. Really.

Shame, because I would have liked to take some photos of their equipment (etc, he said tantalisingly), and other things at the Faire.