Looking for a Datron 4910

[CalMachine]

As the title states, I am currently in the market for a Datron 4910 if anyone has one they are willing to part with or know someone that is.  I greatly appreciate it!

[Theboel]

Good luck Sir You hunt for something really special 

[RobK_NL]

There is one available from a reputable German surplus seller.
http://www.helmut-singer.de/stock/-1517728670.html

Shipping cost to the USA may be prohibitive, though.

[CalMachine]

Thank you so much!!! Price really isn't much of an issue, unless were talking $10,000+

I just recently got my hands on a bunch of special test equipment.  I'll take and post some pictures soon....  But, they include a Datron 4950 with all of its accessories still, and a Datron 4922 to measure with my Datron 4920!  I'm so excited lol

[manganin]

Price really isn't much of an issue, unless were talking $10,000+

Unless your goal is to own a 4910 because it is very nice instrument (it really is) ... With a fraction of that money you could get a farm of LTZ1000 chips and other required precision components. And a nice hobby. And eventually expertise that (if you are lucky) can be used in something which is not a hobby anymore. Just a suggestion.

When buying a 25 years old complex and highly specialized instrument from a surplus source, there is no guarantee that it works properly now or tomorrow or can even be repaired. Whether you pay $100 or $10 000 for it, you still have the same problem.

I contacted the mentioned dealer several years ago. Back then the asking price was 2500 euros if I remember correctly. My question was what their statement "fully tested" actually means and I also asked a few details about their lab. The only answer that I got was that the 4910 outputs were tested with a multimeter.

My point is not to criticize this or any other surplus dealer. I think it is buyers responsibility to ask the simple questions. For example, what kind of lab and personnel it would require to really test the huge variety of special equipment they have for sale. Would it be possible even if it was your lifetime passion in which you spend all your time and money? And finally, would it be a realistic business model (more than a week)?

[CalMachine]

Price really isn't much of an issue, unless were talking $10,000+

Unless your goal is to own a 4910 because it is very nice instrument (it really is) ... With a fraction of that money you could get a farm of LTZ1000 chips and other required precision components. And a nice hobby. And eventually expertise that (if you are lucky) can be used in something which is not a hobby anymore. Just a suggestion.

When buying a 25 years old complex and highly specialized instrument from a surplus source, there is no guarantee that it works properly now or tomorrow or can even be repaired. Whether you pay $100 or $10 000 for it, you still have the same problem.

I contacted the mentioned dealer several years ago. Back then the asking price was 2500 euros if I remember correctly. My question was what their statement "fully tested" actually means and I also asked a few details about their lab. The only answer that I got was that the 4910 outputs were tested with a multimeter.

My point is not to criticize this or any other surplus dealer. I think it is buyers responsibility to ask the simple questions. For example, what kind of lab and personnel it would require to really test the huge variety of special equipment they have for sale. Would it be possible even if it was your lifetime passion in which you spend all your time and money? And finally, would it be a realistic business model (more than a week)?

Yeah I totally understand where your coming from when buying surplus equipment.  The only reason why I would take a poke at their unit is, I've been looking for a 4910 for a few months now, and this seems to be the first one that is real and available.

This won't be a personal unit, it will be utilized in the cal lab I work for, in conjunction with our 732B.  If it does happen to come with any issues, my sister company is an industrial electronic repair shop, so most problems can be solved... unless parts are unavailable.  I love the little symbiotic relationship here between these 2 sister companies.  Cal Lab / Electronic Repair! 

[RobK_NL]

To give credit where credit's due, said surplus dealer has been in the business since 1975 and while their prices are sometimes steep, they actually really know their business.

Over the years I have bought several instruments from them and have had nothing but positive experiences. Even in the one case where something went wrong (an HP8116 that blew one of the unobtanium ASICs five minutes after I powered it up), they were most courteous and professional; I got a full refund and they had the instrument picked up for return, free of charge.


I have absolutely no other affiliation with them other than as a satisfied customer.

[pelule]

actual offered at the bay, not very cheap and condition unclear:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Datron-4910-DC-Voltage-Reference-Standard-/381867256754?hash=item58e90febb2:g:cl8AAOSwImRYKv1u

Also Helmut Singer / Germany offers one for 4641,00 EUR: http://www.helmut-singer.de/

[CalMachine]

actual offered at the bay, not very cheap and condition unclear:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Datron-4910-DC-Voltage-Reference-Standard-/381867256754?hash=item58e90febb2:g:cl8AAOSwImRYKv1u

Also Helmut Singer / Germany offers one for 4641,00 EUR: http://www.helmut-singer.de/

Thank you much!

[manganin]

This won't be a personal unit, it will be utilized in the cal lab I work for, in conjunction with our 732B.  If it does happen to come with any issues, my sister company is an industrial electronic repair shop, so most problems can be solved... unless parts are unavailable.  I love the little symbiotic relationship here between these 2 sister companies.  Cal Lab / Electronic Repair!

The purchase price is only a fraction of the total cost, especially in primary level metrology. A used 4910 is going to need a lot of (expensive) work to make sure it is stable and reliable. And there is no guarantee of the end result. Even the units spent their whole life in optimal lab conditions require regular care nowadays. That is the nature of 25-30 years old electronics. A surplus unit with no history is even bigger question mark.

From the company perspective it will be much cheaper to buy another 732B (if you really need a second reference). A new 732B probably runs next 20 years without issues.

[TiN]

I'll just leave this little 4912 teardown in here. 

[CalMachine]

This won't be a personal unit, it will be utilized in the cal lab I work for, in conjunction with our 732B.  If it does happen to come with any issues, my sister company is an industrial electronic repair shop, so most problems can be solved... unless parts are unavailable.  I love the little symbiotic relationship here between these 2 sister companies.  Cal Lab / Electronic Repair!

The purchase price is only a fraction of the total cost, especially in primary level metrology. A used 4910 is going to need a lot of (expensive) work to make sure it is stable and reliable. And there is no guarantee of the end result. Even the units spent their whole life in optimal lab conditions require regular care nowadays. That is the nature of 25-30 years old electronics. A surplus unit with no history is even bigger question mark.

From the company perspective it will be much cheaper to buy another 732B (if you really need a second reference). A new 732B probably runs next 20 years without issues.

While I agree with the sentiment, older units definitely can have issues and require more to upkeep.  But the reason we are seeking the Datron 4910 is, it has 4 10V cells as opposed to the 1 of the 732B.  Also, you can almost never find a used Fluke 732B, from what I've seen.

I'll just leave this little 4912 teardown in here. 

Omg yes!! This is awesome.  You rock

[ManateeMafia]

The biggest drawback to the all in one reference design is that if a component does go bad, the whole unit will need to be serviced.

That 4912 linked by TiN is mine. I have found bad diodes and tantalums on the power supply and main pcb. The batteries are also are not easy to change but some can be still bought. Mine is still a WIP as the reference board still has issues.

There was mention of a 732B which is good as a transfer standard. Either way, the eggs all in one basket design probably turned a few labs over to the 732B.

Another option is the 732A. For the cost, you could buy 3-4 of them and bring them online one at a time. Having 3 of 4 good references in the 4910 still means it would have to be serviced/returned. With 732A/B, you can still monitor 3 refs and then compare the repaired one to them when it gets fixed.

I still like the 4910 and would love to have one, but my experience with what I have has deterred me from getting one. This is just my opinion....

[Dr. Frank]

A bank of 4 references usually is used as:
3 EA keeping the Volt, being able to decide which ones are good or a stinker
1EA to travel frequently to Cal lab for importing the Volt to home lab with the other three ones.

The 734A is convenient for that procedure, 4910 is not, as the unit as a whole has to be sent in

Frank
http://us.flukecal.com/products/electrical-calibration/electrical-standards/734a-voltage-reference-dc-voltage-standard

[CalMachine]

A bank of 4 references usually is used as:
3 EA keeping the Volt, being able to decide which ones are good or a stinker
1EA to travel frequently to Cal lab for importing the Volt to home lab with the other three ones.

The 734B is convenient for that procedure, 4910 is not, as the unit as a whole has to be sent in

Frank

The biggest drawback to the all in one reference design is that if a component does go bad, the whole unit will need to be serviced.

That 4912 linked by TiN is mine. I have found bad diodes and tantalums on the power supply and main pcb. The batteries are also are not easy to change but some can be still bought. Mine is still a WIP as the reference board still has issues.

There was mention of a 732B which is good as a transfer standard. Either way, the eggs all in one basket design probably turned a few labs over to the 732B.

Another option is the 732A. For the cost, you could buy 3-4 of them and bring them online one at a time. Having 3 of 4 good references in the 4910 still means it would have to be serviced/returned. With 732A/B, you can still monitor 3 refs and then compare the repaired one to them when it gets fixed.

I still like the 4910 and would love to have one, but my experience with what I have has deterred me from getting one. This is just my opinion....

Thanks for the information and insight everyone!! I truly appreciate it

[Theboel]

Hi CalMachine,

The person I know who have access to 4910 is Zlymex and Todd Micaleff.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/repair-datronwavetek-4910-voltage-standard/msg886607/#msg886607

https://xdevs.com/fix/d4910/

 

[zlymex]

Hi CalMachine,

The person I know who have access to 4910 is Zlymex and Todd Micaleff.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/repair-datronwavetek-4910-voltage-standard/msg886607/#msg886607

https://xdevs.com/fix/d4910/

Yes, I got my 4910 10 years ago, I power it 7/24, and it works fine.

[CalMachine]

Hi CalMachine,

The person I know who have access to 4910 is Zlymex and Todd Micaleff.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/repair-datronwavetek-4910-voltage-standard/msg886607/#msg886607

https://xdevs.com/fix/d4910/

Yes, I got my 4910 10 years ago, I power it 7/24, and it works fine.

If you're ever willing to let your 4910 go, let me know!  We might be in the market for one when you decide to.

[zlymex]

Hi CalMachine,

The person I know who have access to 4910 is Zlymex and Todd Micaleff.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/repair-datronwavetek-4910-voltage-standard/msg886607/#msg886607

https://xdevs.com/fix/d4910/

Yes, I got my 4910 10 years ago, I power it 7/24, and it works fine.

If you're ever willing to let your 4910 go, let me know!  We might be in the market for one when you decide to.

I'll remember this.

[BC758]

My name is Brian and I direct sales at ALLTES INSTRUMENTS.  I'd like to make clear the situation surrounding the Dayton 4910.

ALLTEST has over 50,000 complete units of test & measurement equipment on the shelf.  We are a world renown refurbisher of equipment with 10 full time military trained RF and optical technicians.  We have a NIST traceable calibration lab on site with two dedicated echicians that write their own automated procedures and perform manual adjustments to thousands of different types of units. Our sales network extends from Fortune 500 companies to hobbyists and local calibration labs like the folks on this thread.

Alltest is not a scrap recycler nor a broker.  We REFURBISH test & measurement equipment.  We do component level repair and the computer software engineering ourselves.  For those with technical knowhow on this thread it is sufficient to say that rebuilding precise legacy test & measurement equipment there can be extended delays.  Company policy is a lead time of 5 to 7 business days for general purpose, standard RF, and optical equipment. 

Considering our massive inventory and rush times during the year the lead time is extended for particular items from time to time.  The Dayton 4910 arrived at our facility missing components.  We weren't aware until we pulled the unit into our calibration line for testing.  As soon as we became aware we got the parts needed ordered up and broke out the schematics.  This particular repair needed machine work in our in house machine lab.  IMMEDIATELY (within 2 minutes) of the customer "Ryan" buying the unit from eBay a personal email was sent to him fully disclosing the potential extended delay.  Apparently he missed the email and subsequently sent harsh and threatening emails cursing out our staff.  The order was cancelled and refunded IMMEDIATELY.

The unit is still available for sale because we are continuing to rebuild the unit for the next customer who would like to buy.  I highly suggest that people don't listen to liable, especially when it is unfounded and ill informed.  I'm open for emails or phone calls with any questions or concerns.  I figured that I would educate anyone listening to half a story on this thread so that you could be fully informed.  You deserve the dignity of a full story.

Ps - the 3458 purchased from us was sold as a parts unit and was given to you at a GENEROUS discount. 
Pss - the directional bridge was rebuilt and ships Monday

Brian

[Gyro]

The unit is still available for sale because we are continuing to rebuild the unit for the next customer who would like to buy.  I highly suggest that people don't listen to liable, especially when it is unfounded and ill informed.  I'm open for emails or phone calls with any questions or concerns.  I figured that I would educate anyone listening to half a story on this thread so that you could be fully informed.  You deserve the dignity of a full story.

(My highlight)

Well Brian, I would suggest that you finish rebuilding the unit to a working and shippable state before listing it for sale to anyone! As in normal business practice. 

[BC758]

I appreciate the suggestion.  The unit is being finished.  As explained in an earlier post, we are always up front if we believe a lead time will extend past our standard lead.  Mistakes occurr. With hundreds of thousands of happy customer transactions over 10+ years it is inevitable that some vocal dissidents will air out the grievances.  I appreciate your understanding.