In the early history of science, most research was done by wealthy people of independent means. It's not all about making a profit. The search for knowledge is a worthy goal in itself.
If I make a device that can hold a stable voltage to 1ppm or less for 7 days an output 1mv to 100v, that had great value as a transfer standard for hobbyists. That could be nulled to a 732B and sent around anywhere in the world. You could use it to calibrate your hobbyist lab meters. That has business potential.
As for gathering data on monolithic ICs, that can actually prove to be useful as most IC manufacturers only gather initial data on 100 chips over 1000 hours. That's what goes into the datasheet. If we've got people gathering data on batches of chips for 10,000 hours, that's producing real data that could be very useful to others. That's science.
At any rate, no one is trying to replicate the 732B. I think the goal is to make a standard good enough to validate and maybe even calibrate up to 6.5 digit meters.
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A poor man can't afford 2 3458A's + a few 732B's......
show me how you can amortize the cost of equipment + resources into a sub $100 MSRP, and come out ahead? You can't....
If you are doing this for purely academic purposes....then you are once again not a poor man, because you have no financial gain...and only spend resources.....so again not an excercise for a poor man.
those DMM's and baseline ref aren't "cheap"
I mean I can make my meter show a number also....what does it prove? Where is the datalog...what were the conditions etc etc etc.....
If no datalog at appropriate intervals....did someone actually watch the meter for 7 days or two whole weeks? can they prove it?
A poor man can't afford 2 3458A's + a few 732B's......
show me how you can amortize the cost of equipment + resources into a sub $100 MSRP, and come out ahead? You can't....
If you are doing this for purely academic purposes....then you are once again not a poor man, because you have no financial gain...and only spend resources.....so again not an excercise for a poor man.
As often the case a collection of random non-sequitur, out of context misquotes, and generally lame nonsense.
I mean I can make my meter show a number also....what does it prove? Where is the datalog...what were the conditions etc etc etc.....
If no datalog at appropriate intervals....did someone actually watch the meter for 7 days or two whole weeks? can they prove it?
The majority of commercial standards can prove their claims.....if they can't they would have never received a NIST cal cert.....that's the point of the traceable reference....anything else is just pissing in the wind and hoping none blows back on you.....how could one derive a known level of uncertainty across their entire test reference system?
here is a picture.....for the hell of it lets say it's been there "for a week or two" (a week or so? which one is it...a week, or two....?) ROCK SOLID!!!
A poor man can't afford 2 3458A's + a few 732B's......
show me how you can amortize the cost of equipment + resources into a sub $100 MSRP, and come out ahead? You can't....
If you are doing this for purely academic purposes....then you are once again not a poor man, because you have no financial gain...and only spend resources.....so again not an excercise for a poor man.
As often the case a collection of random non-sequitur, out of context misquotes, and generally lame nonsense. To assume academic efforts are not possible on a budget is absurd. Equally absurd to assume everybody must have multiple 8 1/2 digit lab meters and at least a hundred grand invested in a wall full of similar gear. Estimated at least 9 out of 10 of these forum users are not involved with mars rover or developing heart and lung machine.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hobby
And to assume a poor man cannot pursue academic research for eventual profit just as senseless.those DMM's and baseline ref aren't "cheap"
Actually they can be.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AD584KH-4-Channel-2-5v-7-5v-5v-10v-High-Precision-Voltage-Reference-Module-Simpl-/181219600361?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a3187a7e9
$8 but very stable and comes with calibration data from 6 1/2 digit lab meter so an excellent transfer standard for most setups.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161247229877?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
5 bucks on Ali. 0.1mv resolution. More than adequate for 99% of hobby AND professional voltage measurement.I mean I can make my meter show a number also....what does it prove? Where is the datalog...what were the conditions etc etc etc.....
If no datalog at appropriate intervals....did someone actually watch the meter for 7 days or two whole weeks? can they prove it?
Again you don't have to spend more than a new car to arrange data collection. A one or two dollar MCU perfectly able to not only convert meter readings to serial for PC logging but actually store weeks or months internally depending on sample rate.
Man! This is like reading a good book and just when I thought it couldn't get any better, it does.
As to Awesom14 building his circuit on perf board or whatever , what is wrong with that. As to Jim Williams(a hero to some on here),
I bet he never laid out any of his circuits for production. If Awesome14 put his circuit on a pretty PCB it might not work.
I also knew my boy Tim couldn't go four posts without incurring the Wrath of God.
Al
yet NOT ONE PIECE of relevant data is presented....
I will leave you folks to it though....you obviously get some delight in admiring each-others nonsense claims...sooner or later though (after you piss away your time and resources) you will have a very rude awakening that the datasheets were right after all....such a pity to see all the time wasted
yet NOT ONE PIECE of relevant data is presented....
I will leave you folks to it though....you obviously get some delight in admiring each-others nonsense claims...sooner or later though (after you piss away your time and resources) you will have a very rude awakening that the datasheets were right after all....such a pity to see all the time wastedI can not believe you would say that. You seem to be a smart person and sometimes you are going off in a wrong tangent.
As I have said before, if I need lab grade calibration and verification and transfer, I go to my official calibration lab here in my town and they use their Fluke 732B and an Agilent 3458A and a Fluke 8508A.
But for some purpose I do need 5.000 V as a reference in some projects and some of these good quality "hobby" references are doing their work perfectly.
And if I take 3 different meters in my lab, a 34401A (calibrated) a 34461A (calibrated) and a 34410A (calibrated) and all of them show 5.0000xV with the x floating 1 digit up or 1 digit down, and the difference between the meters is 1 or 2 digits off in the last place what is wrong with that?
It has fulfilled my requirements and expectations and I am getting a job done.
Well, that's the spec of the 2ppm reference swamped (by floating 1 digit noise) that you are trying to measure.
I think I would struggle to verify the performance of these hobby standards, with either my trusty fluke 8508A or my dusty hp 3458A. The techniques used, other sources of error and uncertainty guard banding makes this a very error prone 'experiment'. Forget trying to do it on a crappy 6.5 digit whatever.
Well, that's the spec of the 2ppm reference swamped (by floating 1 digit noise) that you are trying to measure.
I think I would struggle to verify the performance of these hobby standards, with either my trusty fluke 8508A or my dusty hp 3458A. The techniques used, other sources of error and uncertainty guard banding makes this a very error prone 'experiment'. Forget trying to do it on a crappy 6.5 digit whatever.
Oh, and TunerSandwich, you state 6.5 digit meters can't verify 1ppm at 10V? I don't know what sort of shitty meter you've got, but mine certainly goes down to 10uV at 10V (10.0000X).
I think that the best you can expect is a long term stability of 20ppm per year with a very well design and thermally controlled production circuit.
Well, that's the spec of the 2ppm reference swamped (by floating 1 digit noise) that you are trying to measure.
I think I would struggle to verify the performance of these hobby standards, with either my trusty fluke 8508A or my dusty hp 3458A. The techniques used, other sources of error and uncertainty guard banding makes this a very error prone 'experiment'. Forget trying to do it on a crappy 6.5 digit whatever.
So, you consider a 34401A, a 34461A and a 34410A crappy 6.5 digit whatever meter?
Really?
If I am looking for 5.5 digit precision and my 34461A shows 5.00002 V and over several thousand measurements the last digit will not even move and it is confirmed by a 34401A and a 34410A, how is that not verified?
34401A specs *after 1 hr warmup
5V is in the 10V range and therefore within 24hrs the relative accuracy is 15ppm plus 2ppm.
Have you made an uncertainty budget ?
5V is in the 10V range and therefore within 24hrs the relative accuracy is 15ppm plus 2ppm.
Have you made an uncertainty budget ?
5V is in the 10V range and therefore within 24hrs the relative accuracy is 15ppm plus 2ppm.
Have you made an uncertainty budget ?
Do I really need to worry about 15ppm + 2ppm, when I require only 5.0000V on a 6 1/2 digit multimeter?
Here is my setup: