Calibratory D-105 DC Precision Voltage Reference Standard

[TunerSandwich]

I am a very capable individual. I have 1.4 million readers in 155 nations! I must remain anonymous, because I've experienced 15 murder attempts in the last 3 years, all because of what I write.

Care to share with us what you have written that garnered 1.4m readers and 15 murder attempts?
After all, it is public, right?
Perhaps you'll even gain some more readers...

I made the greatest scientific discovery of all time. So, I published it. It's the holy grail: the key to immortality and absolute power; or perhaps I should phrase it: extremely extended lifespan and the ability to manipulate the physical laws of nature.  I've demonstrated that it is the means by which God conceived the Christ Child in the womb of Mary Most Holy. I've also done a thesis that the same principle when mixed with murder produces vampire fetuses.

No one has ever argued the points I have made regarding immortality, absolute power, or vampires. So, now you'll have a bit of google fodder. But I'm not tying myself to any certain published material, because I don't desire to be linked to it.

 

[Sbampato12]

You're either a troll or insane.

I would bet both.

Apart the sad part, this topic is kind of comedy, at some point.

I think by the nick name, that he is Dean (from Supernatural).
By now, getting things with God and vampires, I'm sure about that!

[TunerSandwich]

Sorry I'll still have the Fluke....because I am in no way worthy of a reference handed down from God itself....

[Andy Watson]

wat.

Awesome isn't it. Truly awesome. 

[Awesome14]

Awesome14, temperature compensated references have been around for a long time. There's even an LT app note showing a schematic for one (Jim Williams AN47 maybe).

Speaking of Jim Williams, he's a true genius and someone I truly admire. The world lost a brilliant mind the day he died.

The fact that you won't show us what's so "obvious" that we missed is akin to a kid on the playground going "I've got something you don't, nanana boo boo!"

It leads me to believe that you're just blowing smoke.

Also, show me exactly what TunerSandwich edited in his quote.

Real scientists and engineers don't act the way you do. God, I can't imagine the way you'd react at having a paper or something peer reviewed. You'd flip the fuck out and smite them all with God's name.

You're either a troll or insane.


Sent from my Smartphone

My comment made privately to an eBay user, which was then made public in an attempt to smear me, mentions magic.  I believe there was a misunderstanding. Appears to be magic means: it looks like magic, because nothing quite like this has been seen before, so it challenges our concept of what is possible—something like a 2-foot tall front-end loader that can lift a skyscraper—but we both know reality is governed by inflexible laws beyond the capability of mankind to alter.

[color=”red”]It does NOT mean: I've evaluated all possibilities....[/color]

My comment made privately to an eBay user, which was then made public in an attempt to smear me, mentions magic.  I believe there was a misunderstanding. Appears to be magic means: it looks like magic, because nothing quite like this has been seen before, so it challenges our concept of what is possible—something like a 2-foot tall front-end loader that can lift a skyscraper—but we both know reality is governed by inflexible laws beyond the capability of mankind to alter.

[/b][color=”red”]It does NOT mean: I've evaluated all possibilities, and I've discovered the device is controlled by magic! [/color][/b]

I have chosen to protect my work using trade-secret rather than patent. Therefore, as I said before, I'm not going to reveal what protects my work, no matter how many times the members call it worthless. Because I know there is nothing like it for the price.

[TunerSandwich]

I have chosen to protect my work using trade-secret rather than patent. Therefore, as I said before, I'm not going to reveal what protects my work, no matter how many times the members call it worthless. Because I know there is nothing like it for the price.

Prove it....I still see no long term drift data....etc etc etc

Also a "trade secret" is OK to share....because we are all in "the trade".....not sure you know what the term "trade secret" means 

I'm still betting on Fluke here....but waiting for you to convince me otherwise......

So far it's working....as Fluke has never offered me such entertainment.....magic, vampires, divine inspiration.....virgin birth!!! 

You should totally publish all of your accomplishments in your eBay listing.....I am sure it will add credibility to the claims and boost sales through the roof   

[Awesome14]

OK, let's get back to business. If anyone wants to put the D-105 DC through the ropes, I have no objection. Let's just stick with professional opinions and solid research work.

[TunerSandwich]

You're either a troll or insane.

...this topic is kind of comedy...

only "kind" of ? This has got to be one of the best trolls I have ever seen on the ole internets..... 10/10 .... this guy is a riot 

[TunerSandwich]

Let's just stick with professional opinions and solid research work.

The existence of vampires, "magic", defying natural laws, virgin birth, visitations from God to help you design circuits, that tsimply follow application diagrams......those are all your "professional opinions"?

Also where is the "solid research work"......please let's see it good sir 

P.S.  I think you should raise the price even higher....certainly the value of divine circuitry is worth more than you are asking....I say bump it up to around $666 dollars....

[rx8pilot]

Even by internet standards - this is comedy gold!

It could be a fundraiser for the EEVblog - sell subscriptions to this thread for $157!

[TunerSandwich]

Even by internet standards - this is comedy gold!

It could be a fundraiser for the EEVblog - sell subscriptions to this thread for $157!

I need to save my money for the D-105 DC.....the price hike shattered my dreams 

[AlfBaz]

Even by internet standards - this is comedy gold!

It could be a fundraiser for the EEVblog - sell subscriptions to this thread for $157!

I need to save my money for the D-105 DC.....the price hike shattered my dreams 

It appears you can get a lesser model for cheaper
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10-VOLT-DC-Precision-Voltage-Reference-Standard-Nulled-to-Fluke-732A-or-732B-/261499015291?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ce28e507b

[TunerSandwich]

Even by internet standards - this is comedy gold!

It could be a fundraiser for the EEVblog - sell subscriptions to this thread for $157!

I need to save my money for the D-105 DC.....the price hike shattered my dreams 

It appears you can get a lesser model for cheaper
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10-VOLT-DC-Precision-Voltage-Reference-Standard-Nulled-to-Fluke-732A-or-732B-/261499015291?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ce28e507b

HOTDAMN!!! *backflips*

maybe that one is less because the baby Jesus didn't bless it with his inspiration....or possibly because that one doesn't ward off vampires....and we certainly don't want parasitic losses

[TunerSandwich]

My standard is the only standard to successfully employ tunable, passive tempco employing a heat-equalization pipe. Why didn't you think of that?

errrmahgerd !!  a "passive tempco heat-equalization pipe" !!!!

You are most certainly right sir....I would never think of such a ludicrous thing.....I bow and am humbled by such a device....

"Tuning" the tempco ?     Where do you come up with this shit.....

BTW I am very familiar with passive heatpipe technology....but explain how a passive heat pipe, "tunes" the "tempco" in a "sealed" enclosure     Doesn't that TDP have to escape the case somehow?  Or does it fly into the "quantum vacuum"?    I don't see any heatpipes in the teardown, nor do I see an external path for the heatpipe to transfer thermal energy to a heat exchanger....nor do I see a fan to further remove that energy from the external heat exchanger.....furthermore....why would you want to REMOVE heat? 

Does the circuit somehow generate enough heat that it will melt the plastic enclosure?  You are familiar with the concept of "ovenizing" these device right? 

Heat pipes are designed to transfer heat form one place to another.....usually from a source of heat, to a heat exchanger....I.E. from a let's say a microprocessor to a thermally bonded "pad"....through the heatpipe itself, to a heat exchanger...which is located a distance form the heat source....and usually to a heatsink, with some form of active cooling solution.....I.E. from cpu to external heat exchanger....with some form of active cooling....the purpose is to move heat OUT of the case.....

Another example would be a sodium filled valve-stem.....which is designed to (once again) REMOVE heat from a cylinder head valve seat....

I am a bit puzzled by how a "passive" heat pipe helps stabilize a monolithic voltage ref IC.....usually we want to pump heat INTO them....have you figured out a way to "make heat" passively?  That is simply astounding.....I would like to know more.  You and the "quantum vacuum" guy must be good friends.....

BTW is this your "heatpipe"?  Because that is simply a piece of foil....and it appears you are trying to move heat between some kind of resistor (or diode...I can't tell because it appears you have slathered everything in some type of non thermal adhesive) and the top of the IC package.....sorry but that is NOT a heat pipe....a heatpipe is a hollow (vapor cavity), tubular (sometime oval or "flat" but hollow non the less) device, usually filled with a type of "wick"....

You do also realize you could have done this same thing, by designing a proper PCB, with a common thermal layer...and a REF IC that is in a "can" (TO package), flipped into the "dead bug" configuration.....although I don't really see the point of either....you have no controlled heat source....unless your "heatpipe" is once again aligned with the "quantum vacuum"....


still feel like playing?   

[TunerSandwich]

That's exactly what is going to happen. Due to no part of mine in it, but you earned it. No one is claiming miracles or magic regarding the D-105 DC. The members of this board appear as utter fools because of their presumption and arrogance, something they apparently cannot hide even if they try. Nor can they accept the truth even when it is known. No, they insist on hammering away at the less fortunate, the weak and disabled.

Wait, i thought you said you were mentally superior to all of us, rich beyond the need for financial gain and knew how to bend the laws of nature.....

now you say you are less fortunate, weak and disabled.....

I will most certainly agree with you on the disabled part....you know that you can get medication that might help you with that though?  Maybe your "brilliant cardiologist friend" can help get you that Rx ?  Although I don't think they allow physicians to write scripts posthumously

[timb]

Awesome14, temperature compensated references have been around for a long time. There's even an LT app note showing a schematic for one (Jim Williams AN47 maybe).

Speaking of Jim Williams, he's a true genius and someone I truly admire. The world lost a brilliant mind the day he died.

The fact that you won't show us what's so "obvious" that we missed is akin to a kid on the playground going "I've got something you don't, nanana boo boo!"

It leads me to believe that you're just blowing smoke.

Also, show me exactly what TunerSandwich edited in his quote.

Real scientists and engineers don't act the way you do. God, I can't imagine the way you'd react at having a paper or something peer reviewed. You'd flip the fuck out and smite them all with God's name.

You're either a troll or insane.


Sent from my Smartphone

...

[color=”red”]It does NOT mean: I've evaluated all possibilities....[/color]

[color=”red”]It does NOT mean: I've evaluated all possibilities, and I've discovered the device is controlled by magic! [/color]

...

I have chosen to protect my work using trade-secret rather than patent. Therefore, as I said before, I'm not going to reveal what protects my work, no matter how many times the members call it worthless. Because I know there is nothing like it for the price.

You fucking dumbass, he didn't edit your post, he quoted the first paragraph in a wall of text and truncated it for brevity. You're friends with God and the most brilliant mind in the world, yet you don't even know what an ellipsis is... (I'd tell you, but it's a trade secret.)

By the way, I'm 80% done with a PCB based on "your" design. I'll be selling them on eBay for $50. So you're right, there will be nothing like it for the price. Because I'll be undercutting you by $100 with a more professional product. Once you go out of business, I'll stop.

I'll be losing money in labor, but I'll more than make up for it in sheer pleasure. It'll be like having an orgasm every time one sells.

Sent from my Tablet

[janaf]

Awesome14; seriously, no matter the performance claims, you can't sell this stuff without seriously upgrading the build quality.

Others; I'd say, leave the poor guy alone. He obviously has wiring problems way beyond the technical stuff.

my 2c

[SkyMaster]

This thread is disgraceful.

 

[Stupid Beard]

I don't see any heatpipes in the teardown

Maybe he thinks all the plated holes in the perf board are heat pipes. After-all, they're metallic and kind of pipe shaped 

[Jay_Diddy_B]

This thread is disgraceful.

 

1+

Before I post any thing on line I do a quick check, "would I say that to my boss or a friend?"

I strongly support peer review and positive criticism, but it should always be done in a objective way preferably supported by analysis or prior art.

It should never be an attack on the person, his believes or his culture.

There have been some very positive contributions made by members in this thread. I enjoyed reading Dr. Frank's analysis regarding errors and un-certainty.

There is a very large thread on this forum that explores how to get the best performance out of the LTZ1000. This thread is heavy on science and experiments, the correct way a technical discussion should proceed. Most of the science in this thread could be applied to getting the best performance of the REF102 used in the D-105.

The challenges in building a good reference include (non-inclusive):

1) Initial accuracy and calibration.

2) Temperature Coefficient

3) Thermal Hysteresis

4) Aging

5) Humidity

6) component selection

7) Construction

All this has to come together to achieve a few ppm accuracy.

Think what 2ppm is, it is a single dot on a sheet paper, it is 2mm in 1 km (1/8th of inch in a mile for the USA and one other small island that uses imperial measurements  )

Comments that help achieve these goals or help readers decide whether to purchase the D-105 are well received.

Comments that are personal attacks should have no place on a technical forum.

Jay_Diddy_B

[MadTux]

Before I post any thing on line I do a quick check, "would I say that to my boss or a friend?"

I strongly support peer review and positive criticism, but it should always be done in a objective way preferably supported by analysis or prior art.

It should never be an attack on the person, his believes or his culture.

I feel the same way, but here it's a different story. It's plain and simple: scam.
No problem if a guy is using a sloppy breadboard reference in his own lab and believes in magic and unrealistic specs. But selling a black box with false claims (2ppm and esoteric bullshit description) for a horrendous price is scam. And I have no mercy for that, especially on ebay where you need to trust the seller when buying stuff. it's like selling 32GB USB sticks that only have 1GB chips inside. Plain and simple scam

[TunerSandwich]

I don't see any heatpipes in the teardown

Maybe he thinks all the plated holes in the perf board are heat pipes. After-all, they're metallic and kind of pipe shaped 

If you look at the pictures....and try to decipher Awesome14's comment....this is what I believe he is saying....

He has glued a piece of copper foil, between a diode, and the ref IC case....he is calling that a "heatpipe".  Ok it's not.  I think he is saying that he is cooking that poor little diode, and expecting that a thin piece of copper foil is somehow transferring enough thermal energy from the poor little diode (which is his "heater") to "stabilize" the REF IC.  The efficiency of heat transfer across that piece of foil is nil.  Also the diode is right next to a shit bottom of the barrel trimmer....which hasn't even had the wiper screw glued in place.  So in essence he is creating more of a problem than solving one.  The majority of heat (which is hardly any) is not traveling across the copper foil to the REF innards....it's just traveling, via convection, into the case of the trimmer.

Ok fine...even then I doubt this has any significant impact on anything in this circuit.  If his theory is to heat the case of the REF then why not just take some nichrome wire...zig zag it across the top of the REF IC case....bond it thermally and run some current through it?  That would be far more efficient than his method....and still that isn't the proper way to ovenize this package.

This all could be avoided...by simply designing a proper PCB....with a thermal layer...bonded to a TO (can) REF IC, in the dead bug config....bond the case of the TO package to the thermal layer with some thermal "grease"....and then bond a proper controlled heater to the thermal layer....just like everyone else does....

Instead he claims this is somehow innovative, and we are all too stupid too see it....I am sorry but I am all for helping people, but not when they act like some elitist and call everyone here inferior....ESPECIALLY when they have ZERO basis in their claims...NO data to prove anything and start talking about being handed circuit designs from God himself....throw in vampires, angles, and whatever other bullshit is flying out of this guys mouth, and I just don't feel like being nice anymore....

I said back on page one, that the REF102C is in fact an excellent monolithic ref IC.....I have worked with them many times, and if you hand select (bin) the IC, you can easily get better than 2ppm per year stability....out of the plastic package.  No big deal there.

What I am amazed at is that DESPITE the poor layout and construction of Awesome14's "reference" the Ti REF102C is getting anywhere near 2ppm stability (+/- so 4ppm really) for even a day or two....I still see zero data showing anything about stability over 30, 90, 180, 256,etc etc etc days....

If anything I say this whole scenario just shows how good the REF102C can be....even when someone who has no idea what they are doing slaps one together with perfboard....shit components and construction techniques....

Again I have used the REF102C in a proper ovenized enclosure design...with proper supporting components, and it's a nice little IC, for a reasonable cost.....easy to implement etc etc etc....and IF you hand select the IC you CAN get better than 1.5ppm stability over a year or more....fine, no big deal...that is not innovative, astounding or anything other than "decent".....

The claims of "heatpipes" and "revolutionary design"....and then insulting us all on the basis that since we don't agree, we are somehow mentally inferior and closed minded...is simply going past the point where I feel like lending any advice or being a nice guy....

So again the only conclusion here, is that DESPITE Awesome14's total ignorance and terrible mental disabilities, the REF102C is a half way decent REF IC....I am mainly still here reading and commenting, because I find this entire thread utterly hilarious, on the basis of the divine claims, breaking the laws of physics claims, assassination conspiracy etc etc etc....it's pure comedy at this point....nothing anyone says here is actually going to help Awesome14, he is far beyond that....

To top it off Awesome14 is SELLING these on eBAY....with bogus descriptions....no pictures of internals....and for a price that doesn't justify anything he has done.  Anyone here or there could easily order the same IC from Mouser or Digikey or wherever, for not much money...slap it on a perfboard...with half way decent components....throw it in a hammond enclosure and probably have BETTER results, for under $50. 

So basically this is an eBAY scam, and constitutes fraud....and that is simply shameful....there is nothing innovative or "magical" about the "product"....it's built on nothing more than an application schematic handed down from Burr-Brown to Ti and then from Ti to Awesome14....and he didn't even implement it properly....why would anyone want to help this guy?  He is scum...

[IanB]

...if you hand select (bin) the IC...

How do you do that?  Do you buy lots of them and run them all on the bench side by side and monitor them?

[janaf]

Agree. I think everyone who has followed the thread has seen enough to make their own conclusions. Please leave it at that.

This thread is disgraceful.

 

[TunerSandwich]

...if you hand select (bin) the IC...

How do you do that?  Do you buy lots of them and run them all on the bench side by side and monitor them?

Yes....which is purely academic in nature, and for personal discovery....as the process is NOT cost effective for "production" units....but it's something we did to gather data on potentially using the REF102C.  Our conclusions mirrored Ti's own lab reports on 15 monitored units....some display orders of magnitude better stability than their MAX spec....some just barely make it.  It's a wash