Used Precision Lathe machine

[xzswq21]

Hello
I want to buy a used small and Precision lathe machine, the accuracy (Backlash) should be better than 0.05mm, I usually work on small size Teflon/Brass/Steel rods for the instrumentation industry. (Cutting, boring, making internal and external thread)

I would like a lathe machine similar to WABECO D2000, PROXXON PD 400, KLIPPFELD and etc

if you have one please let me know,

Thanks

[xzswq21]

what do you think about "Grizzly" lathe machines? is it an American company?

[fcb]

What country are you in? It would help if you changed your profile to reflect this.

If you want a precision small lathe, then I'd hunt out a used Schaublin (65/70/102) depending on needs. Wabeco, Poxxxxxxon etc. are not precision..

[BradC]

the accuracy should be better than 0.05mm, I usually work on small size Teflon/Brass/Steel rods for the industry.

That's almost 2 thou. You should be able to do that on pretty much any reasonably set up machine.

[xzswq21]

What country are you in? It would help if you changed your profile to reflect this.

If you want a precision small lathe, then I'd hunt out a used Schaublin (65/70/102) depending on needs. Wabeco, Poxxxxxxon etc. are not precision..

I've found several Schaublin lathe on eBay but they are very old,

[langwadt]

the accuracy should be better than 0.05mm, I usually work on small size Teflon/Brass/Steel rods for the industry.

That's almost 2 thou. You should be able to do that on pretty much any reasonably set up machine.

until you try with teflon, which is like hard chewing gum that move, expands, and contracts ...

[Kean]

I'd suggest looking at Sherline or Taig brands if you want a small lathe or mill.  Both made in USA I believe.
https://www.sherline.com/
https://taigtools.com/

I own a Sherline CNC lathe as well as a Taig CNC mill and Taig manual lathe.  My brother also has Sherline lathe and mill.
I bought most of mine second hand on ebay, but a few of the accessories I bought new.
I prefer the Sherline lathe, but the Taig mill - but it makes sense to stick with one brand and share the accessories.

[kosine]

Nothing wrong with old lathes. Many were better made than modern ones. I use a Myford ML7 that was built in 1956, and you can still get spare parts for it!

As BradC and others have pointed out, accuracy is more to do with the skill of the user than the machine. Just requires practice.

And http://www.lathes.co.uk/ is arguably the go-to source for info on lathes.

[xzswq21]

Nothing wrong with old lathes. Many were better made than modern ones. I use a Myford ML7 that was built in 1956, and you can still get spare parts for it!

As BradC and others have pointed out, accuracy is more to do with the skill of the user than the machine. Just requires practice.

And http://www.lathes.co.uk/ is arguably the go-to source for info on lathes.

When an instrument is not accurate we can not measure a parameter accurately,

[xzswq21]

I'd suggest looking at Sherline or Taig brands if you want a small lathe or mill.  Both made in USA I believe.
https://www.sherline.com/
https://taigtools.com/

I own a Sherline CNC lathe as well as a Taig CNC mill and Taig manual lathe.  My brother also has Sherline lathe and mill.
I bought most of mine second hand on ebay, but a few of the accessories I bought new.
I prefer the Sherline lathe, but the Taig mill - but it makes sense to stick with one brand and share the accessories.

I checked the links, can I make internal and external thread on a Metal rod with the Lathe machines?
plus I think the power of its motor is only 60W:
https://www.sherline.com/product/hill-house-dc-motor-internal/

[jpanhalt]

I agree with fcb's comment.  Certainly, the Proxxon is not a precision lathe in my opinion.  I am not familiar with the WABECO.  Specifications mean very little.  For a lathe that claims 0.05 mm accuracy, does that mean that if you are turning to a diameter (10 mm), and say one cut gives 10.05 mm after you retract the crossfeed.  Then does that mean you can increase the setting 0.05 mm  from the last setting, and the diameter will be correct?

While I was living temporarily in an apartment after a job change, I bought a Prazi SD300 lathe, which is/was also advertised as "precision."  Cross-slide settings are not very reproducible, compared to, say a Monarch 10EE, Harding HLVH, or even my old Smart & Brown.  Myford and Schaublin also have good reputations for smaller lathes.

Another thing to consider is whether you will be doing threading.  You can do threading on my SD300 as claimed by the manufacturer, but it is a challenge.  There are no half-nuts and counter to get started on the correct turn.
 

[xzswq21]

I agree with fcb's comment.  Certainly, the Proxxon is not a precision lathe in my opinion.  I am not familiar with the WABECO.  Specifications mean very little.  For a lathe that claims 0.05 mm accuracy, does that mean that if you are turning to a diameter (10 mm), and say one cut gives 10.05 mm after you retract the crossfeed.  Then does that mean you can increase the setting 0.05 mm  from the last setting, and the diameter will be correct?

While I was living temporarily in an apartment after a job change, I bought a Prazi SD300 lathe, which is/was also advertised as "precision."  Cross-slide settings are not very reproducible, compared to, say a Monarch 10EE, Harding HLVH, or even my old Smart & Brown.  Myford and Schaublin also have good reputations for smaller lathes.

Another thing to consider is whether you will be doing threading.  You can do threading on my SD300 as claimed by the manufacturer, but it is a challenge.  There are no half-nuts and counter to get started on the correct turn.
 

consider I install a stepper motor on the hand-wheel and I adjust the zero, I send a command to move the cutter in the 10mm position, the actual position should be between 9.95mm to 10.05mm, that's why I said before I want a precision Lathe.

[xzswq21]

what do you think about the "OPTIturn TU 2004V"?


another Option:
SIEG Lathe:
http://www.siegind.com/lathe-machine.html

WEISS:
https://www.dropros.com/DRO_PROS_Weiss_Lathes.htm


as you see all the Lathe machine are rebranded! and I hate Chinese machines

[Kean]

I checked the links, can I make internal and external thread on a Metal rod with the Lathe machines?
plus I think the power of its motor is only 60W:
https://www.sherline.com/product/hill-house-dc-motor-internal/

The Sherline is a small lathe, smaller than even the smallest Seig I believe.  While it has a small motor, I've seen lots of hobby machinists use them to make everything from clocks to steam engines.  You just need to take light cuts compared to a larger (more rigid) machine, especially in steel.  Plastics and brass are easy on it, and what I mostly use it for.

Yes, you can do thread cutting with an optional attachment, but it will take some practice.  I don't have that on mine.  https://www.sherline.com/product/3100-thread-cutting-attachment/

Of all the Chinese lathes & mills I've looked at, the Sieg branded models seem to be some of the better quality.

[Benta]

Friends, let's be realistic here:
there are NO small used European lathes or milling machines on the market today. The Schaublins, Boxfords, Dixis, Weilers, FP1s etc. are all in the hands of collectors and in their workshop.
There's no market, everything is being traded between friends and acquaintances. And should a machine be offered publicly, it will be sold at a horrendous price. It's like classic cars.

In reality, only Chinese small machines are on the market, sold under 50+ different brands. Whether it's Stuermer, Klippfeld, Grizzly, HF, Taig... they're all the same machines with different paint jobs, labels and mechanics (eg, inch/metric).

The price differences between the machines come from the quality control and demands of the EU/US importers.
Some just sell them as is (eg, HF), others check every corner and verify the precision of the parts and the quality of the castings.

Define the machine size you want, and then choose a supplier you trust.

[xzswq21]

Friends, let's be realistic here:
there are NO small used European lathes or milling machines on the market today. The Schaublins, Boxfords, Dixis, Weilers, FP1s etc. are all in the hands of collectors and in their workshop.
There's no market, everything is being traded between friends and acquaintances. And should a machine be offered publicly, it will be sold at a horrendous price. It's like classic cars.

In reality, only Chinese small machines are on the market, sold under 50+ different brands. Whether it's Stuermer, Klippfeld, Grizzly, HF, Taig... they're all the same machines with different paint jobs, labels and mechanics (eg, inch/metric).

The price differences between the machines come from the quality control and demands of the EU/US importers.
Some just sell them as is (eg, HF), others check every corner and verify the precision of the parts and the quality of the castings.

You are very experienced, and you have taught me a lot of tips, which brand do you recommend?

[CatalinaWOW]

I would second Benta's comment and also say that you need to consider the comments on operator skill being a major part of accuracy of parts produced.  No machine is perfectly stiff or has zero backlash.  And the parts you describe are not perfectly stiff, so there is the possibility of measurements varying along the length of the part.  All of these factors and more need to be considered when operating any machine.  A better machine might even cause worse results because it would hide some of these factors from an unskilled operator and prevent appropriate learning.

Another thing you might consider, depending on how you are driven by cost and time is to select a lesser machine and fettle it, tuning and modifying it for better performance.  Sometimes this is relatively easy, in other cases virtually impossible, but it is worth investigating.  Examples:  The turns counter you note as missing from one candidate machine is a relatively easy aftermarket modification.  Aligning the tailstock with the spindle to avoid tapering your cylinders is often an easy adjustment. 

[FrankT]

consider I install a stepper motor on the hand-wheel and I adjust the zero, I send a command to move the cutter in the 10mm position, the actual position should be between 9.95mm to 10.05mm, that's why I said before I want a precision Lathe.

That's called backlash. ALL manual lathes have that.  If you want to drive a stock manual lathe like that you need to compensate for backlash, or install ball screws.  Backlash is the first thing you learn about when operating a manual lathe.

EDIT: Ignore this.  I completely mis-read the post.

[tpowell1830]

For machine tools, among many other considerations, repeatability is very important to me.

[beanflying]

If you can you want power feed on both axis and bigger/heavier/rigid is certainly a plus if you have the space/$$. The video below is a good starting point and watch some more of Quinn's videos to see what you can do on a smaller Lathe.

[BradC]

Nothing wrong with old lathes. Many were better made than modern ones. I use a Myford ML7 that was built in 1956, and you can still get spare parts for it!

Mine is a 1948. Lovely machine and it's more capable than I'll ever likely be. The only issue with the Myfords is since Myford sold it on a few years ago, the "spare parts" are either rapidly depleting original stock, or cheap replacements from the "East" that need some considerable fettling to get a decent fit.

[xzswq21]

I would second Benta's comment and also say that you need to consider the comments on operator skill being a major part of accuracy of parts produced.  No machine is perfectly stiff or has zero backlash.  And the parts you describe are not perfectly stiff, so there is the possibility of measurements varying along the length of the part.  All of these factors and more need to be considered when operating any machine.  A better machine might even cause worse results because it would hide some of these factors from an unskilled operator and prevent appropriate learning.

Another thing you might consider, depending on how you are driven by cost and time is to select a lesser machine and fettle it, tuning and modifying it for better performance.  Sometimes this is relatively easy, in other cases virtually impossible, but it is worth investigating.  Examples:  The turns counter you note as missing from one candidate machine is a relatively easy aftermarket modification.  Aligning the tailstock with the spindle to avoid tapering your cylinders is often an easy adjustment.

I don't know which company is more reliable in this Chinese world! 
actually in our country there are many cheap Chinese lathes and all these similar to the lathe I uploaded the pictures above! and I'm pretty sure the Chinese machines in our country are junk!

[BradC]

actually in our country

You still haven't told us where that is.

A good machinist can produce excellent work on an average machine. On the other hand, a poor machinist can turn out average work on the best machinery.

Rather than spin your wheels, look around "your country" (wherever that is) as to what is available and pick the best you can afford based on your experience as a machinist.

[fcb]

We still don't know your definition of precision. Examples of what you are trying to produce may help us provide better advice.

Proxxxxxxxon stuff is really not very good. Schaublin very good for small parts. Hardinge HLV is what you would have found in most instrument makers tool-rooms back-in-the-day.

Fitting a DRO to tiny lathe looks like a nightmare - although there are plenty of cheap linear-scale DRO's which do a decent enough job.  B&W Electronics (UK company) make a little draw-wire DRO system that is pretty easy to fit.

[MarkF]

If you can you want power feed on both axis and bigger/heavier/rigid is certainly a plus if you have the space/$$. The video below is a good starting point and watch some more of Quinn's videos to see what you can do on a smaller Lathe.

If you want to go off the deep end, Clough's Electronic Leadscrew attachment for his Grizzly lathe.



Edit.  You can always add a digital readout (DRO) later.
Clough actually shows adding a DRO to his new milling machine.